Okey-dokey.

Good morning,

Jason.

How are you?

What is going well?

Good morning,

Simon.

I am great.

What is going well?

We have beautiful weather here in Denver,

Colorado today.

Just glad it's Friday and just enjoying life.

Happy to be here.

You're right.

It is Friday.

This should give us a little extra perk in our

conversation today with the weekend just around the

corner.

That's great.

For sure.

Why don't you just introduce yourself?

Who are you?

What is it that you do?

Yeah.

That's a longer question.

I'm Jason Hopkins.

I am the President and CEO of the National

Alliance on Mental Illness for Arapahoe and Douglas

Counties.

Many people may know us as NAMI.

A lot of the work that's done for NAMI is focused

at an affiliate level.

I lead the largest affiliate in the state of

Colorado from a membership and community size

perspective.

Then I also have an organization that I founded

and I'm President of,

called The Connection Project.

And in its mission,

it is simply to strengthen and deepen connections

to ourselves and others.

Amazing!

So how,

I mean,

The Connection Project,

how does that kind of work?

Like if I wanted to get involved,

like,

can you tell us a little bit more about how

people get involved in that?

Absolutely.

So that work was born of the work that I have

done with NAMI for more than a decade now,

and really recognizing that a lot of that work

focused on family members and loved ones; there's

always going to be a population that needs the

support,

education,

support,

and outreach programs that we offer.

But there was a broad swath of people who were

just what I would consider struggling with life,

transition issues,

et cetera.

Loss of a loved one,

loss of a job,

you know; transition,

relationship issues,

et cetera.

You know,

I think we can all agree that there are seasons

in our lives that we go through things that

perhaps we need some extra support or help to

navigate those times.

It does not imply that you have to have a mental

illness or mental health condition.

And I found by and large,

there was not a place to turn in a simple way

during those times.

So,

that work is really focused on,

you know,

what are the things that we can do in those times

of struggle that really empower us to take action

in our own lives and to take a next right step

in supporting ourselves for,

you know,

having a life that we,

you know,

enjoy and love.

In your experience,

so people,

there's a,

there's a clear narrative.

There's certain myths around mental health and

mental illness as well.

I think that if you don't have experience with

going through something like depression or anxiety,

it can be quite difficult.

It can be very difficult to,

to relate to an individual who's going through

something like that because everybody's no past

traumas,

be that from childhood or in your adulthood,

everyone's going to experience psychologically and

physiologically different.

Different experiences when it comes to how their

body is going to end up dealing with dealing with

that situation.

And it's going to,

it's going to vary with people.

So why does this present narrative about mental

health often hold people back from recovery?

Because I think we're certainly talking more about

mental health.

I think in the last couple of years,

especially on my social media streams,

you know,

I've gained so much about men's mental health and,

and,

you know,

we should be talking more.

And I think that's absolutely,

that's totally spot on in,

in regards to the mental health and the mental

health and the mental health and the mental health

and the mental health and the mental health and

the mental health and the mental health and the

mental health.

But what do you think holds people back in regards

to the car?

Cause there's a stigma that's certainly a stigma

around it.

So what's holding us back?

Yeah,

that's a great question,

Simon.

I'm so glad you asked.

So,

I mean,

I think there's a couple of things with that.

I mean,

I think currently and historically,

we have a narrative that assumes that when people

are struggling or going through something that they

are willing to do more,

go further,

be more committed,

take more action than they actually are.

And if you look at our current mental health

system,

it is pretty designed to be more committed to

around getting somebody into treatment,

which can often look like finding a therapist or a

support group or taking meds or,

you know,

God forbid,

you need a more severe intervention,

you know,

a stay in a treatment facility.

I think that the short-sightedness of that

perspective really leaves us just as we're

approaching our own struggle of really unsure of

what to do next.

I mean,

I think if you take a broad swath of society and

look at it,

I think if more people were willing to take all

those steps and do all of those things from the

get-go,

we likely would have a healthier society.

But I don't think it's realistic.

I don't think everybody is going to get in their

car or seek out finding a therapist or find a

doctor or psychiatrist that's going to prescribe

them meds.

And frankly,

I don't think that that is a solution for

everybody.

Of course,

I don't want to discount traditional treatment

therapies at all because they are highly effective

and necessary for many people by and large.

But when I talk about traditional treatment

therapies,

I don't want to discount traditional treatment

therapies the fact that everyone struggles,

and that's actually the tagline in our organization,

and recognize that struggle is kind of a

foundational place that any one of us could find

ourselves in.

I think it should be easier for us to be able to

navigate the system,

and it shouldn't require us having to spend hours

to seek out a therapist or to find a doctor to

prescribe meds.

I mean,

there are simple things that we can take action on

in our own lives to support ourselves.

And again,

not subscribing to the fact that this is a

one-size-fits-all solution,

because it is not.

But I think the narrative has really held people

back.

And to your point,

mental health and mental illness,

I think there is no differentiation in the current

lexicon for the conversation that we're having.

I mean,

not everybody who is struggling with mental health,

and frankly,

we all have it if you have a brain,

has a mental illness.

And I think that those two words get used

interchangeably.

And now we've decided to add that word wellness or

well-being into it.

Make it softer or gentler for people to understand.

I think the reality is it comes down to a simple

thing.

We are all seeking connection to ourselves and

others.

And I think the current system,

and again,

I don't want to point fingers at anybody,

it is really,

we don't have language to describe the differences.

And I think that's what keeps a lot of us stuck

in not taking action.

Do you feel that the conventional model,

because I feel like in the UK,

in Canada,

where I am now,

and in the US,

there's probably a very,

very similar pathway where someone who is

struggling,

he does go to see their doctor,

they're probably going to get put on a

pharmaceutical,

maybe get to see a therapist and be referred.

But like in your experience,

and a lot of people who have come through your

organization,

the Connection Project,

how have people experienced that conventional pathway

through what you were doing?

A mental health issue or a diagnosis or a

dis-ease?

How have you seen people go through that classic

model?

Yeah,

that's a good question.

And again,

I go back to this is not a one-size-fits-all

solution.

So,

what works for one person may not work for

another.

I think it really starts with us as human beings.

I mean,

the basis for anything in life is,

are you willing to take action and do it

committedly and consistently to get a different

result?

So people who come into seeking support or help

with an attitude of 'I'm willing to do what it

takes to feel better',

often fare better.

The ones who may have a half-hearted approach to,

oh,

I'm going to try this,

but it didn't work well for me in the past,

and maybe come in with a preconceived notion about

what their expectations are,

what they're going to get out of a treatment

program.

I think the narrative that we build up in our own

head often really stops us short of getting the

treatment.

So I think that's a good thing.

I think that's a good thing.

I think that's a good thing.

I think that's a good thing.

I think that's a good thing.

I think that's a good thing.

And frankly,

I think we have to go back and really call out

most people don't seek help or support to change

unless they have to.

For some reason,

they've been court ordered,

or somebody's doing something disastrous that they

don't want the consequence of,

or it's too painful that they can't sustain living

the way they've been living.

I think that is how we are wired as humans.

And to assume that,

again,

that people are going to,

to do more,

go further,

go faster,

to support themselves,

I think it's a really,

it's a dangerous narrative for us to continue

promoting,

because I don't think it's realistic,

and it hasn't played out.

It doesn't support that people are just,

oh,

I feel bad today,

and I'm going to go and take all these steps to

help myself.

I don't just.

Yeah,

well,

we've seen,

we've seen a rise all across the world in regards

to organizations,

individuals really taking,

really taking charge of supporting mental health

within their community.

That could be like a,

you know,

that could certainly be a,

a global or a national or a very,

like,

you know,

small regional organization.

And that just,

just looking at those,

that,

that rise,

which is a very positive thing,

because a lot of people are seeing within their

own families,

within their own relationships,

within their own lives,

that their mental health is a very serious issue.

And a lot of people are struggling.

So they're trying to advocate.

They're trying to create solutions.

They're trying to spread the message,

trying to create resources for people,

which is unbelievably positive.

Right.

But it just goes to show to me that,

like,

the right.

The conventional model clearly isn't working because

we're having to,

you know,

we're kind of having to take measures into our own

hands.

It's like,

kind of the general public and the kind of,

a lot of governments aren't quite,

I mean,

obviously resource-stricken somewhat,

but it just goes to show to me that this rise of

organizations is really positive,

but it just goes to show that's happening over as

a reflection because something that the primary

broad treatment mechanism isn't working.

Well,

I think you hit the nail on the head when you

talked about,

about resources of the system.

I mean,

you know,

if we look back to what we've collectively been

through in the last couple of years with COVID,

you know,

there are so many things that have happened that,

you know,

have really forever changed the world and the

trajectory that we're on as a human race.

And I think the great news for mental health

specifically is people are starting to talk

collectively about their struggle in a way that

they never have.

I think that's a really amazing thing because it

opens the door for people to be able to talk

about their struggles in a way that they never

have.

I think that's a really amazing thing because it

opens the door for people to seek out support.

Part of the narrative that is not broad and loudly

spread,

which I think is where a lot of these smaller

organizations come into or even large organizations

is the recognition of the demand far exceeds the

system's availability to support people.

So I really think the advent of where we're going

or where we are currently and will continue to

evolve to is going to look like people better

supporting themselves.

Like,

what are the steps I can take?

If I am struggling to help myself through this

time and recognizing that there are system supports

in place,

but they are more limited than they've ever been.

And frankly,

they're for many people incredibly hard to access.

You know,

I mean,

I hear people all the time that want to see a

therapist.

And I mean,

I can usually make a call and find somebody a

place to get connected.

If you don't have a resource like me that you can

pick up the phone and call.

The reality is you may have to wait three or four

months.

To get a therapy appointment or to get in to see

a doctor that could prescribe you meds.

And frankly,

in that moment,

three or four months feels hopeless for many

people.

Yeah,

it's so it's so tricky.

It's so difficult.

And I think that going forward,

I think we're going to be taking a lot of

personal responsibility within our own communities to

be able to reach out and allow people to be

vulnerable and be open.

And,

you know,

start committing to their own recovery,

but doing it in a communal setting.

I think one of the positives of the last couple

of years is that we've all we've all dealt with

this,

this trauma,

this this tragedy of COVID together.

It's a commonality,

right?

So it's bought it.

You know,

it's like it's kind of given a lot of people the

recognition that we share this big thing,

this big issue,

this big problem at the moment.

And it's a trauma bond,

frankly.

It's a trauma bond.

That's really good.

I like that.

Yeah.

And I think that the recognition of that we share

a we have a collective shared experience,

I think,

is really powerful.

I think the trap is in that is a lot of people

assume that what worked for them is going to work

for everybody else.

And the fact of the matter is,

is mental health has never been a one size fits

all solution.

I think that is why it has struggled to gain

traction,

not only because you know the stigma that we may

feel or that society places on us.

You know,

if we are really struggling and need support,

you know,

holds many people back.

But again,

I go back to we we don't have a common lexicon

that supports how we talk about this in a

productive,

helpful way that really opens the door for somebody

to say,

'Hey,

I'm really struggling with this.' Can I talk to

you about it?

And I see that happening in youth more than I do

in in adults and people who have have grown up in

a different system.

And I think that we will evolve.

You know,

certainly younger generations are changing how we

see mental health.

And I think it includes a lot more than it ever

has.

But I do think it is a bit of a trap in

assuming that what worked for you is going to work

for me.

And we see that playing out.

And that's why there's all these different

organizations.

You know,

I think not every organization is going to end up

being a reliable,

trusted resource.

And,

you know,

again,

I encourage people to decide what are the things

you can take action on in your own life that you

have value for.

And if you have the ability,

you know,

to integrate,

that doesn't necessarily cost you any money other

than making a commitment,

a willingness to take action.

Yeah,

it's so it's so interesting because we need,

we need to start creating these conversations a lot

earlier in the process of somebody going through

struggles.

Right.

Because it usually takes a trauma or a tragedy or

something significant to happen within that

individual's life.

Or maybe they they're so ill and they're so

deficient.

It may be nutrients that they.

They become sick and they become ill.

And that's kind of their wake-up call.

We need to be capturing this significantly earlier

in the process,

right before somebody gets to the point where

something really big does happen in their life.

And I think that's where these organizations and

these conversations really can become helpful.

And I agree with you in regards to the younger

generations being a little bit more willing,

being a little bit more aware of and and being a

bit more open to being,

you know,

to not being OK.

And I think that's a,

yeah.

It's been a big problem in my parents'

generation and their parents'

generation.

It's like,

'not it's not OK.' You know,

so we can just put this facade up,

right?

Well,

I think.

And also,

you know,

this trauma bond that we all share.

I don't know about you,

but I if I look around collectively,

it feels like we are a world of a pot that's

about to boil over.

So sometimes if somebody comes to you and they

want to share with you,

depending on where you are in your own space,

you may not have anything else to give.

So I don't think everybody is an open door to

say,

'Here,

I'm here to support you' because they may have

their own thing that they're not dealing with.

You know,

I go back to when we started the Connection

Project.

I mean,

the the interesting thing was,

is realizing,

you know,

this is something that really pertains to anybody.

But frankly,

how do you market to anybody and everybody?

So what we really started focusing on is looking

at what are vulnerable or marginalized communities

that we could.

You know,

study anxiety,

depression rates,

suicidal ideation,

suicidal completion rates,

etc.,

to really understand what are our most vulnerable

communities.

And by and large,

the groups that we've worked with,

I mean,

we've worked with middle-aged men groups.

We've worked with moms.

We do a lot of work with responders.

We do work with veterans.

We do work with youth.

And really,

I'll be honest with you.

While they end up becoming vulnerable.

And we're doing social impact campaigns for those

marginalized populations.

The truth is,

is the information is really the same.

It's the imagery and the subtle changes in the

narrative that target those groups specifically.

But the realization is we're all at our core.

We want to be seen,

valued and heard.

You know,

we want to find connection with ourselves and

others.

And I think that's that's the piece that's missing.

You know,

when somebody comes to you and says that they're

struggling,

I don't think it means for most people,

I need you to fix it.

I think for most people,

what it really means is I need you to listen and

I need to get this out of myself.

And maybe I just need you to sit with me.

And I think a lot of times people feel a real

sense of responsibility.

If I come to you and tell you that I'm struggling

with something that you're going to expect me to

do something to help you and I don't have the

tools to do it or think I don't have the tools

to do it.

I don't think that's the reality.

I think most people coming from that place of

where a pot that's about to boil over really just

need to let the steam out of the pot.

Yeah,

I agree with you.

I think just,

in my experience personally and within my kind of

circle of individual circle of friends and family,

I think a lot of people have become a lot more

empathic and understanding than.

Sure,

I've got stuff going on and there are times where

I feel depressed at times where I feel anxious.

But I think the last couple of years has shown

that clearly other people are without question going

through their own struggles,

regardless of how they might look on social media

or how they dress themselves up,

you know,

so I think that empathy pieces is very important

to to sit back and understand that.

Yeah,

everyone's kind of got everyone's got their

problems.

Everyone's got their own personal struggles.

But that's that's a that's a commonality that we

can that we can connect with as human beings and

and and commune together in a in a positive way

going forward.

Right?

Well,

that's what I loved about our tagline,

'Everyone Struggles.' Is that?

You know,

it sets the baseline of something that isn't scary.

It isn't sad.

It isn't traumatic.

I mean,

frankly,

what we've all been through collectively,

does any of us need more scary,

sad or traumatic in our lives?

No.

You know,

struggle is one of those words.

If you say,

hey,

I'm really struggling and you share what that may

be with somebody.

I find nine times out of ten,

somebody will turn around and share something

they're struggling with with you,

not to discount your experience,

but to build a bond and rapport with you.

That to me is really powerful stuff.

And when you can get to the heart of just

connecting with somebody else through human

experience,

like,

frankly,

why wouldn't we want more of that?

Why wouldn't we promote more of that?

Absolutely.

What what do I think is powerful about focusing on

those people who have championed themselves,

who have turned their personal struggle into

something positive and have turned their lives

around?

What?

Because what do I think is important about focusing

on that when you are in a position of looking to

look for motivation or look for a way out from

the kind of the darkness?

Yeah,

that's a great question.

And I and I can't speak for anybody else,

but I can't; I can say in my own life,

I mean,

I built this life from hell.

I mean,

I literally went through my own dark night of the

soul to build this life,

which has led me into doing the work that I do

today.

I think first and foremost,

when we see somebody else in that position who is

willing.

To show up and champion for another person or

community or cause,

we have to see them as humans first and recognize

that there are likely personal stories or narratives

that have played out in their own life that lead

them to do the work that they're doing today.

That doesn't necessarily mean that they are always

going to be an expert or they are always going to

have the answer.

And I think a lot of times,

you know,

frankly,

we social media is allowing us to live our lives

as a highlight reel.

You know,

we see the greatest and the best online.

Right.

We see the greatest and the best online,

which is often not reflective or representative of

what somebody actually is doing day in and day

out.

And I think the trap there is we assume that

people have have greater capabilities.

They have more skills.

They have more willingness to help.

You know,

I think we have to see them as humans first.

And if there is a connection point and you come

to me for something that I have to offer and I'm

willing to offer it in that space,

that could be a beautiful symbiotic relationship.

But I don't think that we should expect that that

happens by and large in any in any given

situation.

We are humans having a human experience.

And I think it's important to see the human first

before we look at what can they offer me.

Who do you think we can who can we celebrate?

Who do you think we should go to in regards to

know whether that's books or stories or people

within our own circles?

I had it.

How do you think that's that process begins?

Well,

I think that process starts begin.

It starts by beginning to celebrate.

Celebrate yourself for for your willingness to show

up and recognize,

hey,

something's not right and I need to do something

about it.

Like,

that's really powerful.

And that 20 seconds of courage is literally the

thing that can set the stage for all of the steps

that come subsequently.

I think as humans,

we get so focused on seeing the whole staircase.

We forget you don't get up the staircase unless

you take one step at a time or unless you're

monumental and can take two at a time.

But it is still a systematic process.

To get up the staircase.

That's not not all at once.

So I think championing,

championing,

championing,

championing ourselves.

I can say this is really an important step.

And then from there,

recognizing who is the person that that resonates

for you or that you see as somebody that embodies

the skills or the qualities or the the life that

you want to pattern for yourself.

And then,

learn more about them and you'll find their

humaneness in that experience.

I just I think when we get into assuming that

people are,

you know,

champion is a great word.

I think it's really easy for us to discount their

humaneness and recognize that they are going to

have answers that fit everybody's life.

And I just don't think that's the case.

I I often think back to,

you know,

kind of like maybe simpler times when.

A lot of people would have mentors.

There'd be apprenticeships.

There'd be that.

We'd have role models,

you know,

and we'd have role models that we could actually

see,

see,

see and feel right rather than these nonsense

celebrities.

We would have,

you know,

we'd have these individuals in our lives that we

would look up to and we would get guidance from.

And that was this,

you know,

kind of like rite of passage from childhood into

adulthood.

And it was very,

very prevalent within the community because you

needed that structure for the kind of next

generation to come in to to learn the way forward.

And it was very,

very popular in the early days of the group,

the community.

Right.

And without question,

I feel that like it's very difficult to maybe

access role models or mentors in this world,

because even from a very young age,

you're expected to take so much on yourself and

succeed.

And asking questions or being wrong is not

necessarily like a positive thing in our society.

So how do you feel in regards to the importance

of role models and mentors?

And that is that inaccessible these days?

Is it tougher to find?

I don't think it's inaccessible,

but I think the way that we go about seeking them

has changed.

And the reality is,

is if we go back to living our life on a

highlight reel,

I mean,

we have entire generations that are being raised

with technology and devices that older generations

didn't grow up with.

I think there are many positive benefits of that.

But the dangerous part of it is if you empower a

child,

let's say,

you know,

six,

seven year old with,

you know,

technology,

they often can have an unfeathered access to

information that they don't understand the context

of what they're looking at.

And I think that that shapes,

you know,

how somebody is evolving or developing in their own

life.

And I think that that's a really kind of scary

thing that we have not figured out how to

navigate.

Yet.

And I think from that place,

what you might seek out as a role model or a

mentor may be somebody that has a lifestyle or

represents something that you think that you want.

And again,

I'm not saying those things aren't attainable for

everybody,

but I don't think they're attainable for everybody.

And I think people spend a lot of effort and

energy trying to model themselves after somebody

that likely is never going to result in any real

human connection.

I mean,

I think we have we have bought into,

you know,

technology offering some sort of implied connection.

And the reality is that's all it is.

I mean,

it's you know,

while we're doing this remotely,

we're seeing each other's face on the screen.

I don't think there's a connection or there's a I

don't think there's a replacement for one on one

connection.

So when somebody is seeking or looking for a

mentor,

you know,

I would encourage them to really scratch below the

surface just a little bit.

And discern what am I seeking here?

And can this person actually offer me this in a

real tangible way that looks and feels and actually

is connection,

not just a perceived connection?

Yeah,

I mean,

absolutely.

I mean,

if we were in the same room right now and having

this conversation face to face in the same room,

it would it would just take this up a notch.

You know,

like it is.

That's just the way we were programmed for that

human connection to be able to.

Right.

Really fit feed off each other's energy.

And like,

you know,

this is obviously a wonderful option.

But,

yeah,

as I say,

like if we were in person having this conversation,

it would just,

you know,

just kick up,

kick it up a notch.

And I think that's what that's what's accessible to

a lot of people if they choose to try and connect

with people in their in their local community

rather than,

yeah,

like attempting to to get this from like a from a

social media outlet.

You you discuss in some of your website,

you talk about social responsibility at the next

level.

Can you tell us a little bit more about what that

means?

Yeah.

So a lot of the work we have done is really been

built upon connecting with those vulnerable or

marginalized communities.

And often what that will look like is we will

build a campaign that potentially has a podcast

series,

has a digital resource list of vetted,

you know,

supported resources that can support that community

to really start fostering conversations.

Like,

I am a champion of let's look at who are the

people that are the way makers of having these

conversations.

I am a champion of having conversations like

yourself that are trying to to put it out there

and to advance the narrative and really start

having those conversations in a way that,

you know,

if I can inspire people to think differently about

something that they have historically thought of a

certain way or to plant a seed around.

Oh,

maybe there's more to that.

And I want to learn more about it.

And then can we get you connected to resources

that can help you or support you in a time?

And that is done through.

You know,

the.

The miracles of digital technology,

marketing campaigns,

social media campaigns,

et cetera.

We've had a tremendous success in being able to

reach people.

That,

to me,

is the grassroots in a modern world.

You know,

how do we connect builders?

You know,

build and connect bigger and faster than we might

do have done historically knocking on doors?

Yes,

certainly.

What are going forward?

Like,

what are some of the big things that people can

do today in 2022 to improve their mental health

without spending a lot of money or without having

to wait three,

four months for a therapist to say the things

people can do right now that can start to put

them in a in a position to to do even more

things or to start thinking differently or feeling

differently or behaving differently?

I'm so glad you asked.

That's a great question.

So first and foremost,

I think there's things that.

I'm going to frame this conversation a little

differently.

So I do a lot of work with youth and we're

currently building.

I don't know exactly what it is we're building

yet,

but we're having community conversations with youth.

We're building a for youth by youth initiative to

support youth mental health.

In one of those conversations,

I had a very great meeting with a future youth

leader here in Colorado who dynamic young woman.

She's a junior in high school.

And after we had this group conversation,

she reached out to me.

And said,

hey,

could we have a sidebar conversation?

There's something you mentioned that I want to talk

about.

I said,

sure.

Absolutely.

We got on the phone.

And she said,

you reminded me in that conversation that getting

outside and getting sun on my head and taking a

walk can change my mood state.

Now,

again,

that seems like a pretty simple thing for most of

us to recognize.

Hey,

that might make a difference.

And further,

she asked,

is there a group or something that I can integrate

in my school that supports people getting out and

taking a walk?

I said,

well,

other than you being an ambassador for the message,

I'm not sure that there is.

But I think to answer your question,

the thing that we have forgotten,

taking a walk,

getting sun on your head,

proper nutrition,

drinking enough water,

getting enough sleep,

those things can all contribute greatly to your

mental health.

They don't cost anything.

There's something you can do right now today.

And the reality is,

is if you feel out of sorts or stressed out or

anxious,

I guarantee you,

if you go sit 10 minutes.

On a step outside or in a chair and just get

some sun on your head and focus on nothing but

just kind of being in the present moment of that.

You will feel different if you go and walk around

the block.

I'm not saying you won't feel bad 15 minutes from

now,

but it will shift the mindset that you're sitting,

perhaps spinning in.

And again,

I don't offer these as solutions that I think are

going to necessarily fix anything sustainably.

But I do think that they owe a lot of attention.

And I think it's important that we open the door

for,

oh,

I had a good experience doing that.

Let me do that again.

Because I think a lot of times where we fail is

we don't do things with commitment or consistency.

And we don't rebuild neural pathways in our head

by just doing it once and assuming it's going to

be a solution that fixes everything.

I think whatever you choose,

choose to do it with commitment and consistency.

Like do it again and again and again.

Yeah.

I think.

I'll say that,

if I could help people,

I think the 19,00 days,

if you're just following your mind,

moving your body and exercising and being outside

and utilizing sunlight,

the research on that is so compelling for mental

health.

And I think we can do a better job in teaching

our youth why that happens and what happens to the

body when you do something like that.

When you breathe more,

you breathe more air in,

and you've got more oxygen going through your body,

and you're stimulating different hormones being

produced.

you know different times of the day like i think

i think they can certainly understand this and it

will it would have a lot more of an impact in

regards to those individuals um expressing and maybe

influencing other people to kind of do the same

thing you know it's not just about just like just

go outside and you'll feel better i think we can

certainly wrap that up in a in a in a in a

package where it's understood a little bit more

stronger and um like yeah i mean it's such a

quick and easy thing that most people can access

and i and i don't think that you know this is

not rocket science we're talking about here these

are things that we know but i think in our

pursuit of seeking connection perceived connection

through technology we often are buried in our phone

and our devices and we're seeking out those

connections online and the reality is as we talked

about earlier there is never going to be a similar

connection to one-on-one whether that's with

yourself or with another person like you know again

you don't believe me just try it get out take

A walk get 15 minutes of sun on your head,

you know,

and if that feels too hard for you,

like write down three things that you're grateful

for or drink a glass of water.

Like again,

I don't think we have to make these insurmountable

or so hard.

But I do know,

again from my own experience and working with

thousands of people at this point,

there are things that we can do today,

ourselves,

that will shift our mood state if we're willing to

take action.

I think it starts with the willingness,

certainly.

And it's not about doing that one thing to cure

you or that's going to be the one thing; no,

it's about giving people the ability to feel a

little Bit different to think a little bit

different to behave a little bit differently,

and then creating a bit more space for recognizing

you know I could do this,

I could do this a few times a day,

I could...

You know,

I feel a little better doing this.

Maybe I could go for a jog or I could,

you know,

go and make some nice food,

and I could do this a few times a day,

and I could,

you know,

I could do this a few times a day or something

or go and chat to a friend,

yeah...

Like it just gives people that extra space to be

able to do the other things.

It's so important that encompasses us as a human,

especially when it wraps around our like our

psychological health well.

Frankly,

I think it comes down to two simple words:

self-empowerment.

You know,

and if you think about those two words,

self-empowerment - I mean,

who wouldn't want more of that?

That is literally championing,

I cannot say this word 'championing' for yourself...

um,

it took me three tries last time too,

that's good; um,

yeah.

I think it's showing up for yourself.

I think we have become so desensitized to recognize

that there are things that we can do on our own.

And I really believe if we want to create a

movement that's sustainable and really start changing

the lexicon for mental health,

I think it starts by...

you know,

and why I'm so impassioned.

About working with you,

frankly,

I think they are going to shape how the world

sees mental health because they see it differently.

So what I'm learning and understanding from them is

very different.

I think going back and trying to change adult

behavior is much harder than building in better,

better systems of support much younger and then

helping create a,

a narrative or a system of support that parents

understand so we can start having these interfacing

conversations that builds healthier generations.

And,

obviously,

we obviously have the,

you know,

the adults creating the legislation and,

you know,

creating these policies.

And doing all these things,

so yeah,

as I say,

like it could take a generation or two to for

that to filter through,

right?

As those individuals get older.

But yeah,

that's that's an interesting it's an interesting

thing you know.

We've done a lot of research; um,

we've employed two professional research firms in

the work that we're creating specifically for youth

to really flesh out what are the mental health

resources available for youth today,

and,

and I will say there are many that are um uh

supported by youth; there are a lot of youth

advisory councils,

there are a lot of youth voices,

I mean very dynamic future leaders that Are leading

the charge on this,

I will say by and large I haven't found another

organization that is literally a for youth by youth

organization.

We are not building anything that is not

green-stamped by the youth that we are working

with,

and that is a broad segment of youth that we are

working with,

working at.

Frankly,

I think the thing that that that really comes into

the conversation is defining how youth see mental

health,

which is very different than how our generation

might see mental health or older generations see

mental health.

It is more inclusive; it is broader.

Their willingness to jump into traditional

modalities.

Of treatment,

is much different; their experiences and expectations

of those treatments are different.

You know,

um,

again I think we have to be really sensitive to

the fact that we have to be really sensitive to

the fact that we have to be really sensitive to

the fact that we have an entire generation that is

being raised with technology and social media from

the jump; like there's not,

unlike we integrate this later in.

And I think the,

the,

the science behind how that affects your brain and

its development is pretty compelling to support the

narrative has to evolve in your experience with

these youth leaders who are you.

know very much dictating a lot of like what how

the organizations are run.

How can people start to release the blocks and

limitations that they have to move forward within

their own lives or even in their own careers?

I think it's a willingness to take one next step.

I literally think you don't get up the staircase

without the one next step.

From that perspective,

if you are willing to take a walk around the

block like I'm going to get 15 minutes of sun on

my head and take a walk around the block for the

next 30 days,

I'm going to do it every day.

Like,

if you just start there or I'm going to write

down three things I'm grateful for every Day,

you know,

and again,

it can't be waking up and breathing.

I mean,

it can be some days,

but I mean,

you know,

like really focus on what are the things you have

to be grateful for in your life.

I guarantee you doing anything as a practice will

change you; it will change your mindset,

and it will open the door for you to to see what

the next step looks like.

Like don't get focused on the staircase just the

next step,

and do it with commitment and consistency.

What are the more underserved communities when it

comes to mental health awareness that you've

experienced?

Oh,

the responder community by and large,

um,

I think the mental health community.

if you think about it i mean we've placed such a

burden on our mental health providers who is

supporting them interesting you know i think that

is a really vulnerable community right now i think

youth i think parents raising youth is a really

vulnerable community you know you think about what

our frontline and emergency responders were asked to

step up to do quality videotapes and not to let

their?ative care is alone on campus isni? was an

incredible shift in the last year expectation in

you know the global pandemic that we all went

through i mean it was it was life-changing work

for many of them that i don't think that

We've seen a walk back from that,

and I think the demands on people are still really

incredibly high,

and I think that's playing out in an epic way.

I was reading something the other day about out,

you know,

it's 4 million people a month,

I think,

that are leaving their jobs,

many of them frontline worker-type jobs that won't

come back to that.

How do we backfill those gaps in the society?

I don't know.

I think systemically,

we're going to be forced to adapt downward to what

our expectations are of service in the world just

because of what we've all been through.

I mean,

I think people are just fried.

Yeah,

I think that that's a very,

very,

yeah,

it's a good analysis of that very sensitive group

of individuals.

And you just say like,

yeah,

the people supporting mental health to people who

support their mental health and who's supporting

their mental health,

you know,

it's very,

very tricky.

And yeah,

like so many people leaving their jobs in such

vital areas of our society.

Yeah,

we're going to have to have a different expectation

going forward if something drastic doesn't change.

So NAMI,

it's the National Alliance for Mental Illness.

Is that right?

Correct.

Yeah.

So how does that look going forward in regards to

do you have like some big goals going forward?

Is there something,

you know,

something on the horizon?

Yeah.

So NAMI as an organization,

there's a national organization and there's

representation in every state as a state

organization.

And then the actual work to support community

members happens at the affiliate level.

So to be clear,

I run an affiliate.

One of the largest ones in Colorado.

And many NAMI organizations,

depending on where they are,

you know,

are all volunteer-led.

We happen to have paid staff.

But what I think it looks like moving forward,

I think NAMI as an organization is having to

really redefine through what we've all been through.

How do we better support people?

How do we better show up to meet the evolving

needs of society?

I mean,

NAMI is an organization by and large supported

chronically or persistently mentally ill.

The end of the way with the I'm with NAMI.

I'm with the family members.

I think the,

you know,

any movement that we can take to empower people to

take action,

that self-empowerment piece,

I think that's huge because I think I think we

cannot discount or overlook the fact that we have

a system that is overburdened.

Very well said.

I'm just amazed at what they know,

how smart they are,

how willing they are to champion a cause for

collective struggle.

I mean,

it may start with what they've experienced in their

own schools,

but I mean,

it is,

I think it's game changing,

honestly,

Simon.

Cool.

Well,

it's going to be exciting to see how that goes

forward.

And I do hope that there are organizations all

over the world that are taking it from that point

of view,

because I think that's very,

very important to be able to do anything.

Of any substance going forward.

Agree.

How can people learn more about NAMI?

How can people connect with you if they want to

learn more?

Yeah,

so that's really easy.

So my two websites are www.NAMIadco.org.

And then the connection project is

www.realpeoplereallife.org.

And you can connect with me on either of those.

And,

you know,

we're,

we're continuing to be champions for the cause

ourselves in the work that we're doing.

I am excited for seeing this to continue to evolve

personally.

Beautiful.

Myself included in that.

I think I really appreciate your conversation in

regards to the perspective on the,

on the youth within these organizations,

taking those simple steps,

giving yourself even just 15 minutes outside to

just change your environment somewhat and how

powerful and impactful that can be.

I really appreciate your time today and your

perspective on all of that.

Simon,

I appreciate you for holding the space for the

conversation.

It was,

it was well spent.

Awesome.

I completely agree with you.

Thank you very much,

Jason.

I really appreciate your time.

Appreciate you.

Awesome.

Well,

thank you very much for listening.

This is,

this is True Hope Cast,

the official podcast with True Hope Canada.

Don't forget to check out the show notes to

connect with Jason and connect with all of his

amazing organizations that he is working with.

And if you're listening on iTunes,

don't forget to leave a review.

It's very,

very helpful.

But that's it for this week.

We will see you next week.

Cheers.