Okay. Good morning. Sylvia. Welcome to True Hope cast. I

really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me and talk

with us today. How are you? What is going well?

Hey, it's nice to be here. Thanks so much

for having me. I'm doing well. I am in

New York City to Sunny Hut summer day. So

things are great. Perfect. I'm glad to hear that. Well

as an introduction, why don't you let us know who you are?

And what is it that you do?

So I am a psychotherapist. I've

been practicing Psychotherapy for over 20 years

and I am the founder of

critical Therapy Institute in

New York City and more recently actually on September 7th.

Our book is coming out a book

that I wrote about our work at the clinical Therapy

Institute.

Very cool. So just as like a background foundational

stuff. What what is psychotherapy?

Psychotherapy is a method of

alleviating and helping mental health

issues and problems. It's talk

therapy and you know

in the last couple of years we've seen

there was a lot of advocacy around medication and

I'm not against medication. I think medication is

important and some people need it and some people need it

for a longer time. Some people need it for

a shorter time. But there's something about a human connection that

is important in alleviating human problems.

Also, we know that you know a recent

study just came out showing that even depression that

has been marketed by the side, you

know by the medical companies that you

know, if you pop a pill because you have a chemical imbalance and

we know that's not quite the problem again. It's

that doesn't mean that one

should not take medications. But what also needs Psychotherapy

and talk therapy to really

understand and work through issues

Yeah, I think we have a very dysregulated understanding

of the expectations of

taking an antidepressant and expect and what results

to expect and also, you know, the side effects obviously go with

something like that. And I think that I don't think all doctors are

brilliantly trained or fully understand the ramifications

of taking some of these very harsh pharmaceutical drugs

for a long periods of time, especially so obviously everything

has their place. But yeah, it's it's very interesting Dynamic and

obviously having therapies and doing other things as

well to to accompany your healing process very

very important to have this and then for

rounded experience does Psychotherapy get

confused with other types of therapies? Because there's obviously lots of

different Avenues people can take and is

that happen? Is that common?

Think so. I also think one has to keep

in mind that there are many different paths to

Healing. I don't I mean I do think obviously

I'm psychotherapist and I really believe in the

transformative that power of therapy. So I

believe most people would benefit from it. But I'm also very

cognitively aware that for some people it might

be, you know, sort of somatic therapy

or for some people might be, you know,

joining a community center. There's different Avenues to

what heals and what helps

and you think that specific for the individual on their Journey

how they learn how they listen how they're going to be able to work

with an individual and those different types of ways how

to how does somebody

Find the right therapist or right therapy for

them.

And you know, I get a lot of phone calls for people who are looking for

therapy and I often ask them. You know, what is

it that you're expecting from therapy and some people believe that

it could be like a Magic Bullet your tend like 10 sessions

and your life has changed. It doesn't

work like that. Unfortunately as I often say it took

a lifetime to get to where you are. I think it's gonna

take a couple of years to unravel and work with

what has happened to you and come to

a different understanding and change your life. I think

there are many different types of therapies out there. There's supportive

therapy where people want to have someone that they

they talk with and understand

them and support them and sort of like a sounding board,

which I think is great for people who need that and then

there is I think what we do which is transformational

therapy, which is how do you ask questions

about your life in such way that you

get to change you get to transform and you

get to lead a more

Take life. One of the things I also say to people

is that I don't think the goal of therapy is

to make you extra happy that's impossible thing.

The goal of good Psychotherapy is to

make you aware of the choices and the decisions

that you make and to lead a more authentic

life.

Interesting. I think that I mean we're

certainly going to talk about critical therapy more specifically and like how

that differs from other forms, but it sounds like

for somebody who is looking for a particular therapy that's

going to help them and they're not quite sure where to begin.

It sounds like that type that form that you've created through

your experience and education that

that's going to be able to maybe help more people on a

broad level perhaps and so that's

interesting. But so let's talk about

critical therapy and tell us about the Institute a little bit and I'd

love to know how you know, you've been

practicing for 20 years. You obviously had a lot of Education before that like

how a Cycle Therapy evolved. It's changed clearly you've

seen gaps in

the process because you've created your own you've created

your own therapy. So like obviously you've seen something you wanted

to change and you know, so how is that developed

in in your experience of you know, 20 years practicing?

So a couple of things that I've seen within the

Psychotherapy movement is that you have the

sort of clinical training and

clinical training oftentimes is

supposed to be apolitical outside of

the realities of such as

racism classes and so forth.

It's sort of it's It's practicing in

a way that you only look at someone's interest psychic

problems. Meaning. Why did your

mother treat you like that? How is your father with you? And let's

analyze how that impact who you are and then there

is another broad sort of school of thought which is

more about social justice and looking

at how societal structures impact and

affect your mental health. Unfortunately those

two very different Divergent

views never meet and as

he practicing psychotherapist,

I am painfully aware that who we

Are we are a product of our experiences but those experiences

happen within Society happen within

a culture happen within certain structures. So

critical therapy combines the personal with

the political we look at the intracycling problems

that you have your mom and how she treated you for

example, or how your dad treated you how that impacts who you

are. But we also look how those decisions that

your parents made or that you've made are always

intertwine with political realities your

access to housing your access to

education and so forth. So,

I think that that's important because a

lot of therapists, you know, they claim that

they're inviting the political or their claim that

they're looking at things such as racism sexism

and so forth, but they might be looking

at it. I don't know how much they engage in sessions with

people around those conversations.

Very interesting. So you're it's very

very different approach. It sounds like that then the

traditional Psychotherapy because it's you know,

I've never really thought about it to be honest. I've never

had like, I know I've never had therapy myself, so I'm not too. I

don't understand the process too. Well, but it makes a lot

of sense that you would take an individual's.

Circumstances in the world be that, you know, the financial

situation even to the point of like within their

communities within their groups within their families. What political

views do you have? And are you

may potentially isolated with those because that would

be a very very difficult thing to be involved in to say

if you're you know, very left wing individual and your whole society

around you is all right-wing throwing all

this information at you and this belief and even this energy that

would be a very difficult thing to be able to process and

kind of get through certainly on your own. So

it makes a heck of a lot of sense that you would bring that into into sessions.

So you completely understand that individual rather

than you know, traditional forms of maybe talking

about like what your root cause of your like trauma might

be or like where you might want to begin healing that's certainly

makes a heck a lot of sense to me and

That's very interesting that how early in like you're 20 years.

Did you start seeing the gaps in your traditional training?

Oh, I think I started seeing it,

you know mid through. I was working

at different social service agencies and I

started questioning of how much

are we actually helping people to change or are we

helping them to accommodate to oppressive systems?

Um, and I think one of the things I know is that most of

the folks who end up being therapists are

because they want to help people. Right? We we have

a deep commitment to you know, human Liberation

or we have a deep commitment to alleviating pain.

However, I think most of us the

trainings that we get in school do not

actually consider the full person the many

identities the intersectionality of who

we are and as a result, I think a lot of our

patients when they walk in they have to leave some

of those complicated identities or

stories that the door because they might fear that we're

not able to handle it.

Um, what's interesting to me is that whenever we talk about diversity and

whenever we talk about oppression, it's always through another

and what I mean by that is for example, you know,

if you're a white therapist and you have a person of color who

comes to therapy, of course, you're gonna talk about race because there's

a difference if you're a woman and you have a person

who presents his male and comes to therapy again, you're

gonna talk about that difference, but what if you're

too white folks in the room what if you're too

male identified, you know people in

that room do you talk about differences and we don't

because we don't really think that that conversation is valuable but

that conversation is essential to who

we are in the world because all these things affect us

in a very real way, you know, it's not

just something that we get to sort of revisit when

it feels appropriate to talk about difference.

How is this form of therapy genuinely

received by you know new patients that

come in on who or maybe completely brand new to

therapy or have had many different therapists and they

know they're working with you or the in this very very different fashion. And

you are asking these these questions that you know

are very much involved. How is that usually

received?

Okay, because we've been around for a while in New York City. We

have a lot of patients that come in who are social

activists you're very much into social

justice and they understand why these

questions are important. We also have people who know nothing

about that and then they walk in and are

pleasantly surprised. What's interesting

that in my experience people have been in therapy

before appreciate critical therapy more because

they actually realize what they missed out in

their first sort of round of therapy and

how some of the questions that we

pose and some of the things that you have to reckon with, right. I

really part of

that transformation if we you know, if we want to create a more Equitable

society and if we want to create a better world

everyone wants to change everyone else but

we seldom look at ourselves but change begins

at home, right the revolution starts in our home if you

want to end domestic violence, it's very important.

Fight and have policies against that but how you treat

the people in your home is just as important.

And sunny and how you treat yourself as an individual,

right? Like I think it can be very easy to

not for not easy might not be the right word, but it can be

very it can very simple for people to excuse me

go out and want to tackle very very large huge

Global problems.

But yet have issues at home, you know

within their families within themselves and

it could be I think it can be almost impossible to

be able to have quite a lot of success or get your

point across when you do have those.

Individual difficulties at home and you know, it's hard

to say like where the where the fault is there. There's obviously a lot

of societal issues in regards to education and

equal opportunity and things like that so I can

certainly be challenging.

And you know what? That's interesting because what one

of things that we always ask our patients, right?

And we ask ourselves part of critical therapies. Like we constantly

do the work you never arrive at Liberation. You

never arrive of now I am a better person and

I'm done that work is never done just like

mental health issues. Although therapy doesn't have to

last a lot Lifetime and it should not last a lifetime.

You will always have certain issues that you will work through

but one of the interesting things that that I

often ask myself my colleagues

and our patients is how do you live out

your politics?

And what I mean by politics is not necessarily who

you voted for or if you're a Democrat or but what

are your values? For example, we want to

have a more Equitable Society. Okay. Well, how do you

live that? And one of the things that we have done which has

become sort of very revolutionary and

I end up talking a lot about it is our sliding

scale. Um, what's funny about our sliding scale

is when I started the Institute I thought I was going to talk a

lot about the politics and inviting the political into

you know Psychotherapy and how that's controversial and

I ended up now talking a lot about our slime

scale because it's a good example of how do

we live out our politics? So one of the things that we

do is our session is based how

much you end up paying as a patient for each session is based

on your income and resources.

meaning everyone pays the same percentage of

their income and resources for that Psychotherapy session,

but what it also means is that you could pay

let's say as low as $50 or as much

as

A thousand dollars for that session and for people

who want to live in an equitable

society that feels right intellectually, but viscerally

or emotionally there is

a struggle and I think it's a good example of

how ideology or the values that

our society imposes on us sometimes

so ingrained that although theoretically

we might be there we might say yes. I

want to fight against discrimination. Yes, I

want to do these things but when it comes

to how you live those values and how you have to show up

differently. It's very complicated. One of

my patients says to which I thought it was great. She's like, you know

Sylvia this sliding scale. It's like

if I were to go and buy a TV that TV could

cause ten dollars or $10,000 based

on how much money I make like, yeah. She goes

intellectually that feels so right

but emotionally it is so hard.

Yeah, I think.

It must be such a challenge for certain individuals who

to really understand

what their values are really understand what their own authenticity is

and what they really truly believe themselves external of

like the other influences that come into

our lives.

and then to

go out into the world and you know be that authentic self with

those values. It can be such a challenging thing to do because you

know, especially when you take into consideration, we

have this like Echo chamber of craziness with like Twitter

and these other social media outsources where you're

never really

Being yourself and they were hidden behind. We're hidden

behind, you know our keyboards.

So it can be really challenging and quite scary thing to go out into the ground

to the world with our true authentic values. And

yeah, there must be such a challenging thing for

so many people.

And I think it's also difficult because now

we become a culture of sound bites.

You know, it's sort of it was funny because when I

Was preparing for you know doing some of these interviews and

podcasts I've been told like well

memorize these things that you have to say, like that's not

an authentic conversation and we stopped

having authentic conversations, but that's how we grow.

It's out of having Divergent opinions

and really trying to understand each other

and this is why Psychotherapy needs to also do that,

right if you cannot sit in therapy and

talk to you therapist about different opinions or helping each

other understand how you've come to believe certain things

and how are you going to do it in other relationships?

yeah, I remember my grandfather saying to me when I

was about 16 that

if you want to evolve as a man Simon you you

need to be open to being wrong like all the time

be skeptical and also being over and I never really thought

about that type of thing before because there was like a

as a teenager you're going to your 20s.

You starting again quite a lot of more Independence and you

you know have opinions and beliefs. I suppose about about

certain things and the idea especially in the UK the

idea of like being wrong was like you you should never

like open up to that vulnerability because you just

opening yourself up to attack I suppose.

But I've carried I've just carried that very simple idea with

me all along the way and it's really been able

to develop my own my own understanding for different people

and different structures and yet not allowing

myself to be so rigid and bound to

my core beliefs where I you know could be very difficult to even

recognize when those started to form.

And correct and create such solid really rigid

narrow Pathways in regards to my thinking and

my feelings and my and my behaviors. So yeah, I

just I just wonder how and how so

many people get stuck.

with those core beliefs that are so difficult to even break

down and you know, we can certainly talk about politics and

and race and different things like that when it comes to when

it comes to those ideals that that so many

people have but I just have a question in regards to

I saw and I saw on your on

your website that you're that's sorry on

your on your podmatch page that you're talking about. Like what makes

a good therapist. So that's a good question. I

also what makes a good patient.

Well, also I want to go back to one to

add one more thing about what makes a good therapist in

my view. What makes a good therapist is someone who's willing

to challenge you someone who is willing

to make you critically look and analyze

your life what I often tell people is

if you end up going to therapy and everything's always

great. You always feel happy and you leave there.

Like wow this was talking to my best friend then either

a you don't need therapy. You probably need

a best friend or be you're not doing the work.

Interesting and when it comes in your experience working

with patients.

Is it a combination of helping people heal

and go through what's happened

to them and why they might think feeling behave in

certain ways.

Or is it about creating tools

for those individuals to use in

a certain situations that come up for them in society in or even

on their own in their own world where they

see those challenges that they've needed to seek out

support. So is it yeah, it's about it's about creating tools

or is about like that that healing that that

root issues.

It's both I think therapies is a

very unique experience. It's also very unique relationship that

you end up having with someone. It's about being

seen it's about having a witness to

your life and understanding what has

happened to you. So it's both in understanding what

has happened to you and in critically looking at your life

and asking questions, you actually develop the tools.

I think one of the things that that we have to keep in

mind is that therapy is a collaborative process and to

use Paulo freire's example of education.

So there's the banking model of therapy just like there's the

banking model of education meaning. I'm

the therapist or I'm the teacher and I give you

all these tools and information. It's sort of like when you

deposit money right in a bank and then you have

these resources. However, we know from

education and I believe from how we practice and

therapy that's not really helpful mostly because

you're not actually

Counting for the individual in the room and their life experiences

and the fact that they're really experts in their

lives because they've lived their lives my job

as a therapist is to ask the right questions

for you to get to the answers and for

you to develop those tools. So every session is

going to be different all those tools are going to be different from

person to person. So there is the actual tools

that you gain by being in therapy and in

addition the very Human Experience of

sharing your story with someone

of being seen of trusting again, most of us

who end up going to therapy.

End up there because of something traumatic that

has happened to us. And that is a human connection

that has gone wrong or disappointment. And

in order to trust again in order to have faith in

the world. You need to do it with someone.

Absolutely. Yeah, I think I wonder like how

most people that come in to see you. It could

be just on a broad spectrum here. But do do

you find that people come into your door and seek you out when

they're kind of like the the last limb

like like they're really the, you know dealt with

this trauma for so long and they just can't deal with

it anymore or do they recognize that I've got

something going on here and it's kind of like early early afterwards

the the traumatic thing that's happened. Do you

see people all across that belt?

Yeah, I think it's also this is it's

such a great question because now in in

the wake of this covid and

the pandemic a lot of folks are struggling with mental

health issues and yet as a society, we

have not done a great job to say it's okay

to seek help.

We claim that we have a Mind Body

Connection and that we value mental health,

but we actually don't if you look

at in the US, for example, if you look at how insurance companies

treatment or health treatments and

how much they want to pay for it. We know they don't value it.

Um, and our society has not

reached the point that it makes it okay for

people to seek help especially for example, if

you're you know a man or if you're someone

who you know has this idea like I have to be strong as

as if somehow your mental health

Wellness is a character flaw rather than

oh, I just broke my knee or I need to

go therapy to fix my arm. So I think

unfortunately for some folks because of that because of the

stigma it takes them a long time to come to therapy. It's

when no when nothing in their lives works

anymore that they're like, I have reached that break

and I need I would do anything. So now I'm going to do this.

Um, and for other folks who are more well-versed or

know enough about Psychotherapy they

end up coming earlier on I also

want to say that and this is why the personal is always

political a lot of these decisions are tied to

money for example, or access to

therapists or where you live. Do you even have

a mental health professional in your community that you

could go to? So it's it's it's very complex

and complicated because some

folks might actually want to reach and see

a professional and they can't

Yeah, it's it's a struggle for a lot of people and yeah,

so it sounds like that the majority of people who do come in to

see you who are probably going to see most therapists. They're kind of like the don't

see anywhere else they can

turn to and going to see a professional to you know, really help them

out. It's usually the kind of like the course

of course of action here in regards to your particular,

you know, the this critical approach how has

that been received by like the conventional Psychotherapy community?

The some folks are well, welcome

it. Some folks are a little wary about

it. So I've actually been pleasantly surprised

that people are interested in it. Um,

and so I would say it's good and I

also know that we there's going to be a

backlash right one of the things that I was afraid of when you

know, this book is coming out on September 7th, and

I'm like, okay. I know there's going to be negative reviews that's

just part of the dialogue and I hope that there will

be

Reviews that might help me challenge myself and

think about this differently again we go back to how do we grow? It's

by constantly being able to assess and

reassess our values our theories and so

forth.

Yeah, I think that's a very important approach to especially when you're

putting something out into the world that you know, you've you've cultivated over

experience and you've seen that there's a

maybe a gap and that was not really a gap. It's like how

can this therapy approach evolve and

change and you know and serve better. So yeah,

I think that being open to those negative reviews

is gonna be very very beneficial.

And I do believe there is a gap and

I think there's a gap for people who are seeking therapy in

a way that's transformational but

more importantly in a way that it come encompasses

who they are, right? There's so many

identities that need to

be analyzed and looked at

how it impacts who we are in the world you and I

are very different, you know, just as I sit here and we're talking

you have a very different experience than I do and that

is going to impact who we are. It's also

going to impact how our therapy would look would look

like. It's not a cookie cutter we have to do it this way

and we can't change one of the things

that happens sometimes in psychoanalytic institutes is

that

Change happens very slowly and what I

often say to people is if we did surgery

the same way. We did it a hundred years ago it.

Probably wouldn't work. So I think we always have to seek

out Innovation and to seek out what

works and what doesn't and our best.

The the people who give us our best advice I think is ultimately our patients

because they challenge us they

tell us what works

and what doesn't I also think to go back

to your question. What makes a good therapist. I think it's important throughout

the journey at some point to ask your patient. How

do you feel about this relationship? What works for you? And

what does it

Um, you know, yeah, certainly well what he tells

it a bit more about the book. It's critical therapy power and Liberation in

Psychotherapy, right? So why no, obviously

there's no you've written the book because you know,

very obviously very passionate about it. You see that there's this Gap

so why why did you initially write it and

you know, who's an ideal reader do you think for the book?

I am going to do a Zine about critical therapy.

And this is why the reasons the book has illustrations.

So I paired up with an illustrator and

we started you know doing what is critical therapy. What

are the tenants and then as we slowly started working

together we discovered we had like 50 something

pages and like this is no longer a scene. So

it ended up being a very short book. Um,

and I thought it actually makes sense to

release it. Now as it's our 10 year anniversary this year

and the book highlights some of our work

at The Institute in some of our series, um,

it is aimed for people who are therapists

or in the mental health profession. However, I

wanted it to be accessible to everyone because

I would like for people who are seeking therapy

to be able to read it and to actually go their own

therapists and say I would like for us to do more of this or

how come we never talk about that and I

also think with anything

Um, if you have a theory or

if you have something important to say it is so important to make

it simple.

You know as opposed to you know, credentialing yourself

and writing this great book that only four

people read it and you feel like wow, I've accomplished something.

So I did want this to be accessible because

I think that's important and in light of

where we are currently we are in a state

of Crisis regarding our mental health right in the

US, but I think it's worldwide. I mean, we've lived through a pandemic

where most of us were anxious that we

might diet any moment. So I think it is the

time for people to seek therapy. But at the

same time while they're seeking it to ask themselves, what do

I need? What do I want for my therapist? And is this

going to produce a transformative experience for

me?

Yeah, I love that. It's clearly written as a an educational

piece, you know putting theories out there and it's

written for a therapists potentially,

you know.

Open up their practice a little bit more to you know learning about

what you guys are doing and how that's different and how that's

supporting people in different ways. But also for patients who I

think would be so beneficial if you're able to

as a patient and you're seeking a seeking a therapist, you'll see seeking

an actual type of therapy that might benefit you being able

to read this book to understand.

how that might support that individual

that just makes so much sense to me in regards to being

able to find that right person for

me because getting the right therapist is super important. You could you

know, you can I'm sure that within Psychotherapy it's

not like you're gonna go even visit 20 different

therapists and it's gonna be exactly the same right? It's gonna be

you know, who do you connect with? How do you create that therapeutic relationship that

trust that Bond and I believe

that probably has to happen quite soon maybe in the process.

so yeah, it sounds like it's a very very beneficial read

for patients therapists are like

yes, and

I all think I often say this to people who come and seeking

therapy. If you've never been to therapy before

I actually encourage you to go to two

or three therapists for a consultation just to see

the difference. It's sort of like dating. I hope we

don't marry the first person we end up dating and at

the same time what's also unique about our model

is we feel it's important that the therapist

also chooses the patient. So in traditional

Psychotherapy or especially if you end up

going to clinics or social service agencies because

they don't have a lot of clinicians you end

up being paired up with someone and there you

go. Sometimes as a patient you don't have much of a choice.

We only have Susie as a therapist good luck on or

sometimes as a therapist is like, well you need to work

with this person. Although you feel it's not a good match. So we

feel it is very important that this is

a pairing of two individuals who feel they could

work together and that it will be a

Relationship that will benefit both of them right

now. Of course. It's not the role of our patient

to help therapists. But I think it's important that your

therapist feels like they are

they could be useful and this will be a working relationship

rather than oh, I just have

to see you because you got assigned to me, you know.

Do you think that a lot of psychotherapists because you

mentioned earlier in the conversation about be you

know being open to being challenged and if you're gonna be challenged

by your patient or suppose as a therapist, you

have to ask hard questions, you have to start digging

deep you have to you know, really start opening things up and I

suppose maybe after somebody's been a therapist

for a long period of time that could be that could be quite difficult thing to consistently do

because that's quite energy that's quite energy

sapping to you know, get into those get into

those really deep conversations and you know, the things

to get potentially volatile even within a therapy tech

setting, you know, I suppose a lot of really good breakthroughs or

healing or whatever you want to call. It happens when things are energetically volatile.

Do you think that there's maybe some

complacency with within therapists to

stick with the model that they've learned and practice

for decades and all do you

think that you know part of the psycho therapy?

Education is to really get into it and to be really and to

be to be challenging.

well

I bet they want to get into it and be challenging un

fortunately think

most rules for example, you know the schools I went to they really

don't teach you how to do that. It's more

about how to be a supportive therapist how

to maintain boundaries, right? But what I feel

and and in social work in particular is that when

we talk about boundaries, it's almost like this defensiveness

against intimacy. I don't think

we have figured out in social work school as a

clinician and as a society, how do we

love someone and also have boundaries I think

part of the problem is because this idea

of love God co-opted into a transactional sort

of relationship of I give

you this you give me this it's also so much rooted

and romance and you know capitalism and

consumerism. I want to consume you. I want to have

you as opposed to a genuine love of

another person another human being who gets

to see you and who you get to see so because of

that it's hard to challenge.

Were patients when you've been told maintain a distance have boundaries.

So I think a big

part of that is that therapists need to

reassess and learn how one can have

boundaries and also be present and also care

for their patients in a very real way. Yeah, that

sounds difficult to go in with, you know, with kind of

like rules of the process and not be

able to you know, dig deep into certain areas because you never know what's really

gonna come up. I'm sure every single session is wildly different

even within the same with the same patient. So

that sounds yeah, that's that's interesting that you know, you would

have those obviously there's there are boundaries that regards to

like relationships with your patience. Like that's that there you go.

That's a good example there, but then like, you know, not talking about

politics or not talking about race or talking

about those things. Like they are Hot Topics they are

Written unbelievably relevant in everyone's life. So

like why would you not talk about those things but

In regards to your education and

then 20 years of experience and you know writing a book.

What do you think the key skills you have learned

within the within your actual practice

that have been separate for that was missed very

much missing from your education. Like what would you

what would you say to that?

The first one is how do you combine the personal

with the political? How do you you know,

how do you deal with empowerment? What's

fascinating to me? Is that especially within

the social work field? We talk a lot about empowerment how to

empower people but we forget that no one empowers

anyone people Empower themselves. And in

order to be empowered especially if you have been

disempowered and if you had little power

in your life, you have to Grapple with power. You

have to a serpent you have to take it and I

think one of the things that critical therapy is

doing and was one of the tenants was

that we have a deep analysis of power, but

it's not just power in the world about who you

are and you know where you are but it's power

within the therapeutic relationship and it's

power within what happens

in the room and outside of the room, for example, if you

and I met in therapy, you know,

Are our power dynamics? What is your history, you know

position you in a certain way and what are the Privileges that

you have? And what are the Privileges that I have? And also

how do those things interact in our relationship? So

one of the things about powers that

it exists in every relationship, but we tend to

think it's a bad thing power can be a bad

thing. But Power can be a good thing. But we forgot that we we

tend to and especially as mental health providers. We're

so afraid of saying we have power it's like no I'm just helping people

but we actually have power over people's lives

and with power comes to responsibility. So

we have to be aware of it and we have to constantly ask

ourselves. How am I using this power in my

clinical hour to help someone and to help

them realize their own relationship to power

and their own ability to be empowered.

Yeah, that whole power piece. Probably a lot of people might consider

that to be like, you know, I'm up here you're down

here in in the relationship, which is just not not right I

mean power is

It's strong. It's powerful. It's going to you know, it's going to support people

to do great things and it's

obviously not obviously not a negative thing, but I

suppose, you know, the power dynamics. I suppose that we have within our

cultures and our societies that can creep

into the into the therapy process. But how you how you

express that power and how you obviously utilize it and

use it.

Is a very powerful piece with you know work with working with patients.

And in my experience is when we don't talk about power on

or when we pretend not to have it that we get

in trouble.

Yeah, that's that's inauthentic to you know

to not talk about it and not realize that it's there and you

know how we can actually use it to to push us forward.

Yeah, certainly. Well, so the book tell me that the books did

you say September 7th? Yes, it comes out and

how can you be you could we have some local

bookstores? We also are an

Amazon and Barnes and

Nobles and all the major retailers. But we

also wanted to make sure that we're in local bookstore

because again, we want to live out our politics. We can't

just you know, go through Amazon and say Amazon is evil

but here and you know, we're not

purest right one of the things I've learned about doing this work is

it's important to live out your politics and it's important to know

that in order to survive in this Society. We always

have to compromise

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's very very real reality with

things like that. And so how can people connect

with you learn more about what you do and what

the what the critical therapy

is and and ultimately, you know get links easy links

to find the book.

Sure. So if you go to our website critical therapy.org, you

will find a link to the book. Also, if

you go on Instagram, I am

on Instagram Sylvia didkevich, which is

such a crazy name. I should have chosen something else as

my Instagram account. Um, but I think the

best way if you end up going to the critical therapy website,

you could also contact us. You could email

me and so forth.

I think at critical therapy would be quite a good Instagram handle. So,

you know, thank you. I think I need to do that.

Awesome. Well, I really appreciate you coming

on the show today and talking about critical therapy.

I think it's very very interesting and I'm so happy

that there are individuals like you that are looking

at conventional structures conventional education

and you know pushing it forward and evolving and using

your

practice using your practice in your experience with people one-on-one

over a 20 year period to better serve

those people going forward and you know, hopefully maybe not in

a hundred years people were talking about your therapy and

then evolving it even further. Oh, thank you so much. I

hope so and I hope that you know, people will read

this book and demand more from their therapy and

clinicians will actually ask themselves

how they can practice differently in a way to alleviate

pain and to create a more Democratic Society

ultimately, right? Absolutely. I

think the what if more people can advocate for

their own mental health all their own physical health with their doctors or

with their therapists. I think that just it's just gonna create more power

within the dynamic there. So yeah tools

like this books like your therapies like yours approaches like yours certainly

gonna be able to put those put that

put that energy into people's hands.

Thank you. Awesome. Well, thank you very much for joining

me again. I'm gonna make sure that all your information

those links are in the show notes that people

can connect with you. But yeah, thank you so much

again Sylvia that

Thanks so much. And also I've been asked to ask you

this about when will the show air so we could

also posted our on our website and so forth. It'll

go and a few Saturday's time, but I'll

you know, I'll tag you in the right places and I can email out

everything for you as well. So you can share that with your audience as well.

Really appreciate that, that would be great. Thank you so much. Excellent. Well,

thank you for listening everybody. Really appreciate

you doing that. If you're listening on iTunes, don't forget to leave a

review. I'm gonna put links in the show notes if you want to connect, but

thank you so much for listening to True hopefully official

podcast with true hope Canada. We'll see you next week.