Hi, Dr.

Annika. Welcome to True Hope Cast. How are you today?

What is going well?

Thank you. Uh, I'm doing fine today.

It's a beautiful day for being in Sweden,

and in the spring we have total sun

and almost 15 degrees Celsius. That's beautiful.

That's a good spring day.

I remember a couple of times when I lived, I lived in Sweden

for Stockholm for six years,

and I remember a couple of like early Mays

where like the weather, gods joked

and gave us snow for like half of the day.

Mm-Hmm. And, um, yeah, you never,

you can never be really, that happens.

Yeah. You can never be too confident when spring is actually

in Sweden, but, um, I'm glad to hear today's a good day.

That's wonderful.

Yeah. So, Dr.

Annika, as an introduction, why don't you just let us know

who you are and what it is that you do?

Well, let's make it a short version. Sure.

I, I am, um, born in Sweden. Lived in Sweden all my life.

And, uh, I wanted to be a doctor when I was young.

And, um, I didn't get into med school

because my grades were not good enough, so I had

to take some little turns

before I actually did get in there.

Uh, I was 29 when I started study that I became a,

a, a laboratory technician

before, uh, I did, worked some years,

and that was a very good, you know, ground for,

for the doctor job afterwards

and for the, for the, for the, the years learning

to be a doctor because I had so much for free

because I've learned it from, from my work as,

um, in the laboratory.

Uh, so yes.

And, um, I don't know if I, yeah,

maybe I tell take the bad story right away.

Yeah. Because it came when I was taking my exam,

uh, when I, yeah, after the five, uh, years

of middle school, I was, uh, 34 years old

and I was supposed to start working,

and everything was to be, I was to be helping people

and be the good one and the same at the same time.

I first lost my brother.

He was 31 years old, and he committed suicide.

He had a very, he had the schizophrenia

and he was ill for 10 years.

Um, and, uh,

then just one week later we lost our first baby,

and she was 10, 10 weeks old,

and she had a severe genetic, uh, illness

that was not, I mean,

genetic illnesses are usually not treatable.

So we lost her. We lost, I lost those two people in my life

with one week apart,

and I was just about to go out and start working.

So you can imagine the black hole that I fell right in,

and I was there for a while,

and then someone told me, now you are

becoming a victim.

And I did not want to be a victim.

That was not my thing had never been before.

So I, I got help.

So I got out of it, and I started to work slowly

and, uh, been a doctor ever since.

But it was a very tough start.

And I, but I learned an, an awful lot about who we are

as human beings, what stress is, what, uh,

tragedies is, uh, what big things or small things are.

And right after that, we got three, uh, more girls.

She was, the first one was a girl too.

So we got, we got three more girls,

and they are today grownups.

They are healthy, we wealthy, well

mentally wealthy, and, uh, have, uh,

all of them have jobs.

And, uh, one doctor, one economist e uh,

what's say eco economist and one, uh, musician.

So we got them spread around the areas. Amazing.

And we have one granddaughter.

So, uh, and, um, then working along

with a family, three kids, hobby, house,

everything, full-time work as a doctor, I kind of was close

to the stress wall myself after a while.

So about 10 years ago, I decided

to do something with my life.

Instead of just walking straight into the stressful,

I decided to actually take a course in stress management,

not, not a medical course, just one of those things,

you know, ordinary people do in life.

So it was for over a year.

So we, we met two days, uh, a month,

and then we got homework.

And I soon realized that all the knowledge I had from my,

from my medical work and school

and my ex own experiences, that

the stress management work, that was what I was supposed

to give my patients in the healthcare clinic,

because that's what they really needed.

70, 75, 80% of what you see in,

um, primary care is caused by lifestyle,

even severe illnesses

or start with lifestyle choices.

So that's when I quit my job, uh, my regular job as a doctor

and started my company.

Uh, and then I've been whittling around trying

to figure out the best way to work, um,

as a mentor speaker and all those things that I do today.

And I still work as a doctor.

I worked Monday and Tuesday this week, for example, uh,

in a small healthcare clinic

because the lack of doctors here is big.

And it's a good way for, for me to stay

with my knowledge, to stay what's going out there,

how things are for the ordinary crowd out there.

I think that's the short version of my life.

Yeah, that was, that was great.

Thank you so much for sharing.

And, um, it's, it's, it's, um, the beginning of that story.

You know, you're, you're at med school at 29

and you come out at 34,

and you have a couple of very ex

extremely stressful events happen.

And I just, it just makes me think that, um, you know,

you're fresh out of Ed, a five year educational period,

and you say like, 70 to 80% of, of illness

is related to lifestyle stress obviously

falls into that box.

So you would think that perhaps Absolutely.

If a stressful event was were to happen to you,

you've just come out of the education for that.

Were you actually equipped, personally from medical school

to deal with those significant stresses in your life

From medical school?

No. So what I don't think I learned, not

what I learned in medical school, uh, is not

what made me climb up again.

It was more who I am

and the help I got from the, my surroundings

and where I was heading.

And, you know, I've been working for, for, for

so many years to get into med school.

Uh, so that kind of talks a little bit about why I,

when I, when I did get out of the hole to see

what was there, because I've met

so many patients in my life also that I know

stayed there in that hole that never really got out,

who never really did anything

after a big, uh, bad event in their lives.

All right. Um, we hear some, I mean, I, I've lived,

I'm from the uk I lived in Canada for a long time,

and we hear so many incredible things about Sweden.

You know, I, I, I lived there. It was in a phenomenal place.

I didn't go to school there. I didn't, I didn't, um,

go to medical school there.

So I don't know how different it is from,

let's just say going to school in the us.

Um, and it just makes me think about how much

in your medical school in Sweden specifically,

how much are you taught about these lifestyle factors?

'cause if, if, if 70 to 80% of the people who you see

in your career, in your general practice are coming to you

because of lifestyle issues, you would think that 80, 70%

of your training would be based on those factors, you know,

diet, life, um, sleep, stress,

all these things you think you'd be giving,

be given incredible, practical tools you wish you, okay.

Well, there you go. Okay.

Well, why don't you tell us a little bit about that.

So I'm sure they, I'm sure they touch on stress

and inflammation and how that might affect the brain, or,

but like, you know, what did, what did you get taught

in medical school about stress

Of, of, of course, it, it, of course we, uh, you know, uh,

I went to med school long time ago, so it's, it's

a little bit different now,

but I, one of my daughters, um, is just starting her career.

So I've seen what she says.

So I do have some more up to date information.

Uh, but, um, um, medical school is,

you learn how it works.

Uh, when the body works as a BA biology thing, that's

what you start with, how it works when it's normal,

when it's healthy and all that stuff.

And the rest of your education is

what are the diseases in all these different

areas of the body.

And it's based on how to treat the illnesses.

That's the base of medical school.

It's not on prevention.

And, um, it, when you are in the health,

in the primary care, that's

where people come with everything.

I'd, I'd still say that

that job is the best job in the world, uh,

as a job because you meet people of all ages, all sizes,

all colors, all uh, faith,

uh, all genders, everything, uh,

and real biological disease.

Um, um, mental illnesses, bodily in illnesses,

social problems, uh, anything.

Right? You see the big spectrum

and you get to meet people with that tell you stories

that they had never told anyone before or,

and that are, I mean, sometimes heartbreaking things

and I get to hear it.

I'm not allowed to pass it on, but I get to hear it.

So I get to meet a lot of people.

So the work in itself,

but the structure,

that's why the problem is we don't, you don't have time.

Uh, and when you, I when I work, like I did Monday,

Tuesday this week, I go out and,

and work a few days here and there.

I usually go to the same place. Nowadays.

I can go out there and be happy and have a good day

and get, give all the energy I have to the people

and give that extra and take that extra time

and kind of squeeze in as much as possible.

Because if you do that for two days, that's doable.

Do that for five days a week. That's not doable.

You have to have, uh, a much, uh, less tight schedule.

And that is the problem. You don't have time.

And it's not based on, it's based on the problems

to solve the problems, not to prevent the problems.

And that's what I got sick, got sick of,

as I saying, I didn't get sick of it,

but I, when, when I,

when I quit my job 10 years ago somewhere, that's what I,

so I do need to have that time to do,

not to just prescribe something and say, take this,

and then three, three months later they come back

because that if they had a stomach ache

and you give pill for it, instead of changing the history

of their life, they're gonna get that stomach ache again

and you'll get new pills.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it sounds to me that the,

your medical training,

your experience is probably quite similar to a lot

of doctors around the world in this kind

of conventional model where you would initially learn about

the biological structures, biological functions,

and then you obviously switch into the pathologies

of the body and figure out, you know, Mm-Hmm.

What the me medications

and potential treatments are to deal with the symptoms

of those, you know, the, the diseases that we, you know,

kind of box up with symptoms.

And when you go out and start and

They, they still talk.

Yeah. They still talk about that we should

or so, uh, talk about prevention

or at least take one step back,

but it's not given time.

And then they instead sometimes put in,

in some places they have these health coordinators

or whatever they call them, they are usually the very young,

uh, slim girls who are, uh, obsessed almost,

or very into a healthy lifestyle and training

and eating, you know, all those things that are perfect

to be, to get the perfect body.

The problem is when you put those in the healthcare clinic

where the patients are come in all sizes,

they are not used to the, this kind of food

or this kind of life.

They live a total different life.

You have to meet them where they are.

And these young ladies, usually,

they don't speak the same language,

so it doesn't really work.

And I've seen it, I mean, they are great people.

They, that's nothing wrong with them,

but it's not the right thing

to put in the healthcare clinic.

You've gotta give the doctor more time

or nurses that are

talking about these issues in a more

down to earth way.

Yeah. I mean, I mean, doctors hold so much

of the authority when it comes to, um, somebody

who does have a condition and they need to make changes.

You know, it's great that they're able, the doctor's able

to recommend going to see a nurse practitioner

or a health coordinator

or something like that who can, who can offer some advice.

But, you know, people want to get that actual advice

or prescription or something from, from a doctor, you know,

the white coat, the authority there,

which is, which is totally okay.

And as you say, like going to speak to

a very slim young fit individual who can't quite, um,

who's not really experienced the, the, um, the, the trauma

and the stress of living with a condition for 10, 20 years

and how absolutely damaging that can be.

You know, like you put those

two people in front of each other.

Sure. They could both be two wonderful human beings,

but there's no, there's no connection there, really.

There's no understanding. Mm-Hmm.

There's no kind of empathy for what

that person's going through.

And that's, you know, that's

not something you really speak about.

That's like energetic, you know, people can like, you know,

feel that right away.

And that's usually a big turnoff for a lot of people.

But yeah, it still blows my mind, Mm-Hmm.

That the idea of, um, prevention is not, has not

yet filtered really down into the, the,

into the doctor's system.

And it's not filtered down into the educational system yet.

OO of, um, practitioners. Yeah.

It's really, it's surprising,

but it's also not that surprising

because it's like, you know, we see, we see Mm-Hmm.

We see changes in the science literally daily when it comes

to, let's say the microbiome

or gut health, you know, like it changes like constantly,

but it will, that will take 10, 20 years

to filter into the educational system

because of, you know, red tape and you know, these

Absolutely. And

I, I, I talked to my daughter

and she says just about the same thing that I do.

So it hasn't really changed that much, even if they,

they start meeting patients earlier than

what we did, for example.

So there are some changes that are good for them

to be more ready for going out there.

Uh, but it's, it's still the focus on the treatment,

not on the prevention.

And that's why I took this step back.

And also, my colleagues are not always looking at me with

kind eyes because they think I'm an an

odd, odd person.

Okay. Because I am out

of the system, kind of,

You're not in the club anymore.

It is like, they, it is like that. It's really odd.

I, in the beginning I cared a lot about it,

but today I just, okay.

If you don't want talk to me, I, it's okay.

Yeah. I think that, I think

that almost I'm doing my thing.

Yeah, you're doing your thing. And that obviously comes

with age and experience, because when you are young

and you are starting a new job,

you're starting a brand new career that you've invested

so much blood, sweat,

and tears into, especially the educational portion.

You, you can't, you can't just, you can't just discard, um,

all of that o on on those types of grounds.

You know, you need, you need to kind of, you need

to play the game and you need to be in a club if you want to

pursue, pursue all this thing.

You put so much effort into.

So I totally understand why those, the younger generation

of, of doctors would stay in that system for so long. Yeah.

They're older. They're older, or not better,

Sorry. No, no, no,

absolutely. Yeah. And then they,

They be,

because the, I mean, I were supposed to be a doctor.

Well, I am in a way, but a different one.

Well, I Think, and when I am in the healthcare clinic,

I am doing, I'm doing just what I need to do.

I do what I have to do.

I do prescribe if I have to prescribe Absolutely.

And I don't, uh, you know, past the line

where I'm not supposed to.

And if the person doesn't listen to, if I give advice

or talk about things, I just go back.

I do exactly what I need to do. I work within my license.

No, of course. Absolutely.

I, I, I think it's, um, I mean,

this is a different podcast topic,

but I think there is, I feel, I feel very, I've got a lot

of sympathy with doctors because they have people come in

to see them where the majority of their conditions,

the majority of their symptoms is self-inflicted.

And they are expecting the doctor to give them something

that's gonna fix them within days when it's taken decades

for that person to get into that position.

And it's such, it's such an unfair position Mm-Hmm.

For doctors to, to be put into.

It's like, so it's, you know, you've got,

I've got 20 minutes of this patient,

they're telling me all this information

and what, you know, how do I fix 20 years of,

let's just say bad habitual decisions in 10, 20 minutes?

It's, it's just not possible.

So it's like we need

to be looking towards our government entities

to be helping the general public with their health

and supporting them with, you know, incentives

and education information.

You know, there's a big, obviously a big part of that,

that pla comes into it.

Absolutely. And they, they actually are talking a little

bit more in the conversation about prevention and so on.

But the news yesterday, for example, in Sweden was,

the big news was that there is, there's been, um, we say,

uh, quiet, uh, um,

where people write what they think.

I, I can't try and remember, I think the name from, from,

uh, uh, healthcare doctors in the primary care.

Uh, and they been, so, they say that about 50%

of them are think, are, are feeling that they are not doing,

uh, what they should do, uh, at least now

and then 50%,

and that 30% of them are thinking of leaving

this work within the last, the next five years.

And those are scary numbers

because there is a lack of, uh, uh,

primary care doctors in Sweden to begin with,

and who wants to step into that world when the ones

that are in there say that they are overwhelmed.

And I know exactly what they're talking about.

I've been there, done that also

as being a hired doctor today, when I go in, I go in as,

you know, uh, I just take a couple of days

and get paid for, for the hours I do.

So, uh, I don't, I don't, I don't count in that sense.

Yeah, that's, I mean, yeah, I mean that there,

while statistics, so basically they've taken a,

an opinion survey of let's say a a certain amount of doctors

around around Sweden.

Yeah, exactly. The survey. Yeah. And then 50%

of them have said that they don't feel that they are like,

doing enough or doing the right thing.

And 30% of these individuals also believe that, you know,

they're, they've had enough

and they, they can't do the job anymore

because probably because they're there.

They've got so much stress in their lives

that they're not actually supporting enough people.

And that's, that's very, very sad numbers.

And I think that the,

just when you're talking about like when you went

to medical school and now your daughter's in medical school,

I can't imagine that that it is significantly cha the

curriculum has changed that much.

I mean, the human body's not changed that much,

but what has changed significantly in the last 50 years is

our, is our, is our lifestyle

and how the general public lives

Their life. Absolutely.

Because that's what I teach.

We have not changed for the last 200,000 years.

We are the same as we were on the savanna.

That's how we function.

And we are put in a world today with 24 hour, uh, light,

uh, 24 hour of everything, 24 hour

and food, uh, in masses in most, in this part of the world.

And, and, um, with the brain

and mind that does want to be a couch potato,

uh, when they don't have anything to do

because it's set in here from

that person 200,000 years ago.

And we sit there and we eat all those chips

or whatever, just

because at that time, food was, uh, a lack.

There was a lack of food.

And now we can't stop because we are trained

or primed to do that.

So we have to learn something new in this new

world that we live in.

Yeah. There's a big, So that's where the problem is.

Yeah. There's a big misunderstanding within the general

public about how our biology works,

how it hasn't changed significantly Mm-Hmm.

In the past. Yeah. As you said,

200,000 years as human beings.

And that our current, uh, avail, our,

our current accessibility to, let's say calories

is unheard of.

And we can't control it

because it's, you know, it's like a, it's a primary instinct

to just consume calories when they're available.

But, you know, we wouldn't, we Mm-Hmm.

We would have them available for maybe four to five months

of the year rather than 12 months every single day.

You know, like it's remarkable how close you are

to about 10 different restaurants within like five minutes

of where anyone lives in the,

you know, in the developed world.

Let's, um, I'd love to talk a bit more about the word

stress, because everyone is familiar with the word,

everyone is probably familiar with what it means

to them individually,

but like what, what do we actually understand about stress

and are there any myths about it that we are carrying around

as a, as an understanding as as the population that, that,

that may be incorrect?

Well, uh, if we start with a myth, it's

that we can be stress-free.

That's the, that's what people think.

There is a stress-free life.

I mean, really stress free,

and that that's connected with the biology, that

stress is not all the things on your to-do list.

It's a biological reaction that we are born with.

And without that, uh, biological

reaction that we have, uh, to save ourselves, we are dead.

So if we don't have the stress hormones, we are dead.

And so that, that's not a good, I mean,

uh, that, that's not a good thing to hope for,

because if we hope for stress free, then we are dead.

So we have to, for me, it's the stress system.

It's always there. It's there to

help us in the everyday life with getting out of bed,

running for the bus,

eating when we're hungry and all those things.

And our prime, um,

task, our prime mission is to kind of master

how to use that in the best way from the biological way

that we are constructed.

Yeah. As you say, I mean, stress to say yes shortly. Yeah.

So yeah, stress is this ancient biological system

designed to keep us alive and walking

and breathing and reproducing.

Yeah, exactly. Perfect.

And to, and to avoid dangers and to, uh,

and enjoy the good things.

Like when we had the free, at that time,

when we had the free hour in, in the caves,

in the at night when it was dark outside,

we couldn't go anyway.

I mean, you couldn't go to the movie or whatever.

You just, you were sitting there together.

And togetherness is one of the good things in life,

what we need, uh, being together with other people.

Uh, and that is, uh, for good and it's also for the bad

because, uh, we mimic each other.

We, uh, we, um, mirror each other.

So if people start doing bad or nasty

or, you know, evil things, we all become the same.

So it is for good or for bad.

So it's, and all of these things are from

how we are constructed.

Yeah. I think the more opportunity you get

to have a campfire with friends and talk and tell stories

and play music, the better.

Absolutely. That there, there are,

and there, there are so many thing good things we can do.

And we don't have to buy stuff to be, to have

to be less stressed,

because we have all these ways of doing it from the inside.

It's about mindset, how we treat ourselves,

how we treat others, uh, that will make us

happy, healthy people.

Absolutely. I, I, I always go back,

But you have to learn how it works.

Yeah, of course. I mean, yeah.

The, the, the knowing how these things work

with within our biology is so pivotal,

and it's really kind of shocking that we reserve that type

of biochemical discussion

for let's say university or med school.

Like, I don't know why you can't teach teenagers

or even younger about what happens in your brain,

what chemicals are produced

and why you feel the way you feel

and what emotions you have when you have them

have a certain experience.

Like when you do shop or when you do buy something

or when you win at something

or you win a sport, you know, like,

you are flooded with all these chemicals.

Okay, what are these chemicals, what do they do?

And how do they change your biology?

Because once you can start understanding that,

you can start understanding how,

why are you feeling a certain way at a certain time?

And that education is power

because people can start self-regulating them.

They can start self-checking themselves.

They can be like, oh, okay, I'm getting a little bit too,

like a anxious here or wound up,

or, you know, like, why am I feeling

the way that I'm feeling at the moment?

It's, oh, it's because I may be doing this behavior,

or why am I doing this behavior?

It's because, you know, my body is absolutely flooded

with adrenaline right now, and I'm not,

I'm not giving it the, the, the ability to, to, you know,

get back into homeostasis.

It's very, very interesting that we don't educate our,

like youth in regards to why you feel the way you feel.

Yeah. And, and, and it's, uh,

and you are right about, uh, we, we need to start

even in kindergarten.

Uh, so for the small kids to have them, I mean,

you can't teach them the, what the names

of the chemicals are or that kind of things,

but how to treat yourself, how to treat others,

all those basic lifestyle things,

how important that is.

And, and to help them to, to help them grow with that in,

in school, because kids do want to learn

and they do understand a lot more than we think.

And, and the, and also,

and then we have this problem from the other side,

or challenge from the other side with, with one starting

to behave bad or doing things that we not don't want.

And it's contagious. So you have to

get your kids into a contagious loop

for the good things, not for the bad things.

Certainly. Yeah. I've got two young kids

and it's not, it's certainly not easy.

Um, but one thing I have learned with having an incredibly

smart two and a half year old is that there's nothing,

you can't teach children from such a young age.

Even the idea of, you know, feelings, emotions,

and what that does to your body

and why, like, they pick up stuff so well,

and you don't have to explain everything perfectly.

Just giving them ideas

and giving them different ways

to think about things and Mm-hmm.

You know, all they're doing all the time is this, like,

they're just walking in this scientific project

where they're just like trying things

and, you know, it's, it's, it's wild to watch.

It really is. Like anyone who's not had, you know, a two,

3-year-old, it's, if you can take a step back

and think of it as like a science experiment

and you're looking at it through a glass window,

it's really, really fascinating to just watch these little,

little people just navigate them through,

navigate themselves through the world.

And there's nothing that they can't learn

given the, you know, right.

Application that's, you know, general for the age,

quite remarkable stuff.

But, um, what does the actual

It is, I have, I have a, we have a, a four, four

and a half year old granddaughter,

and we've been following, she lives nearby,

so we meet her just about every week.

So we've been following her

and it's just like you say, it's, it's so fascinating

and they are so absorb,

absorbing everything,

and you, you just have to kind of

pull them in the right direction so that they

actually come out good from things,

even when they are in arguing things.

I mean, you, they can learn early, early, early.

It's, it's, it is, uh, we, we should

give the kids, uh, so many things that we, that, that, uh,

the system should teach them very, very early.

Yeah. I don't feel that the system

or really guides children

Or the parents Of course.

Yeah. But obviously parents can only parent

how they've been parented

or how they are educated in regards Mm-Hmm.

To it. There's not really any brilliant books out there

that I've come across anyway, books to tell you how

to be a parent, because there's

so many surprises along the way, you know, you just have

to be, you know, this, I mean, we can talk about

that all day, but yeah, it's, um, it's a fascinating topic.

Topic about how, how little people work in the world

and, you know, being, I feel, I feel like I'm more

of a guide than a parent, I suppose, I suppose.

I mean, being a guy comes under the role of being a parent,

but, you know, I don't want to, um, I don't wanna force

my thoughts and beliefs

and opinions on my children

That that's a good thing.

That that is a good thing to, to not force.

I mean, they do have their own free will

and free thoughts if they are allowed to.

And you can just help them with the limits

where they, where the boundaries.

Because kids do need or, and seek boundaries.

Absolutely. And that's where these kids who go

to the wrong side, that's what,

if they don't get any boundaries,

they will still keep doing things.

Because the one primary thing that

everyone needs is to be seen.

And if you are not seen for the good,

you are the person you are, you do for the good.

You do. And if you're not seen for the good you do,

you do bad things because you do want to be seen.

And that's not because they are mean people, it's just

that they want to be seen

and they are not seen for what they are to begin with.

Yeah. It's a very delicate balance in regards to, um,

guiding your children and supporting them and loving them.

But you can certainly do all those.

I mean, you, I think you can, I mean, you could,

can you love your child too much?

I mean, that stems into the realm of, you know, you are,

you're coddling them and you're not allowing them

to step out towards boundaries and, and try these new things

and take, take risks, you know, not like, you know,

let's go and cliff dive.

But you know, we know risk is a big part of your childhood

and it's a big part of, you know, knowing your body

and knowing your, your, your limits and your risks

and becoming, um, actually connected

to your inner biology in regards to what feels scary,

what doesn't, and being able to evaluate that fear.

Is it real? Is it not real? Is it manufactured?

Is it self manufactured? Yeah.

It's just a very interesting blend of like, how do you,

how do you parent to create a, a, a well-rounded,

structured individual rather than, you know, attempting

to construct this mini version of you

or a better version that you'd like of yourself.

Yeah. It's, we, we should talk about pairing on another

podcast 'cause we're getting off

it, but it's very fascinating.

'cause it all, it's all, you know,

par I I never really, I never really, well,

It's all connected. It's

all connected, yeah. And I never really knew about

stress and depression

and anxiety until I had, until I had kids, until like my

physical and emotional body was, was really pushed

to its absolute limits.

Remarkable. But yeah. We'll talk about that another time.

I want to get back onto on, on stress

and what the actual like literature

and what the science says,

because I'm sure we've been studying the stress response

for a long, long time.

I'm probably in like animal models beforehand,

but what does the actual like science tell us even through,

even from like the, the early days

about, about, about stress.

So what do we actually know?

Because I know within, within science

and the medical model, I think that we don't know

as much as we think we do.

Well, no. Yes.

Uh, when I was in med school, we talked about the,

uh, these, um, hormones

and the, this, how, how it works in the stress situation

and how these hormones comes out.

And, and, uh, so we known that for a long time, the,

you know, the, in the immediate stress situation

and the adrenaline

and the norad adrenaline and the cortisol.

But at earlier we talked more about physical,

uh, ailments

or physical things that were, were missing.

And, uh, and, uh, uh, workplaces and stuff.

We talked about the dangers with, uh, getting something

falling over us or breaking a leg

or No, all those for the body.

We didn't talk about the mind.

That was just, we were just the people we were,

and we had to be safe in the body.

That's how it worked.

Uh, because there, I don't think there is much,

uh, knowledge about how these things work from earlier.

There are thoughts about it.

And of course we have all these ancient, um,

what do you say from, from other, uh,

from the middle, from the, from the east.

Okay. Yeah. From, from, from, from ancient,

ancient scriptures and the ancient civilizations perhaps.

Yeah. Yeah.

It, you know, with the herbs and all those Oh, okay.

Yeah. Traditional medicines,

Things, things.

Traditional medicines. So we have some of that.

And since it wasn't proven with modern medicine,

they weren't two.

And, and we talked, like I said,

just very much about the physical body.

And then somewhere in the nineties

or early thou, uh, 2000, uh,

we changed over

because then the l the life was more secure for their body.

Those things, they are not so common today.

They are, of course, they are common,

but they are not that much.

That's not the big problem.

Now the big problem becomes the brain and the overworking,

and we, we get these phones

or the pre-ver of these phones or it things coming in.

And that changes the, uh,

that it changes so that we start getting medical

illness from stress in a way

that we haven't seen before of co

of course it has been there, but it wasn't that big thing.

And also at the same time, we start for the last 20 years

to have these, um, uh, x-rays, uh,

all those scans or things that we can do.

So we now can see

what happens in the brain when we do things.

Uh, like at an early stage, we, they could see

that when you smile, you,

you, this lightens up.

And if you, I smile to you,

the same thing lightens up in your brain,

even though I'm the one smiling.

And then you also have to smile

because it's contagious in that way.

So I think that's where we started to realize that

we do not know that much about what's happening there.

Because when I was in the first years in school,

in med school, we were told

that we only used like 10% of our brain.

And I never really understood what was the rest for,

how did it really work?

Because at the same time, we know that

you have the hearing place in one place of the brain.

You have the side, uh, eyesight in one place of the brain

and all those different places.

So we use, used all the different places,

but we only use 10% of our, our nerve cells

and we could not re regenerate nerve cells.

That was the story. And,

and that was exactly, that's what I was taught.

I read other people's stories are from this time,

and they say exactly the same thing.

That's what, that's what we knew at that time,

because we didn't know.

Today we know that you can gen, uh, regenerate

brain cells until your a hundred or 110

or 115 if you grow that old, become that old.

So it's, it was not true.

And uh, but it's kind of based everything you do around

that based, based on what you know.

So, um, that was the scary part.

If you drank too much,

because they talked a lot about drinking and nerve cells.

If you drank too much, you would kill your cells,

then you would become stupid.

And I know, of course, if you drink too much, way too much,

you do get brain damage today.

I that's, it is like that.

But it's not for everyone

who had one glass too much when they were young.

And when I was young, that was the story.

Don't drink that glass because you will be stupid.

And we know today a total different story about that.

Yeah, absolutely. It's certainly

that information has definitely radically changed very

recently in regards to, yeah, the ability

for the brain to regenerate.

And as I say, it's, um,

that science is changing so much all of the time.

And I just hope that that filters through

to the educational process

because, you know, doctors being taught that

that's not the case is, you know, can, you can can,

you can spend 10 years not actually knowing the actual

UpToDate information.

Um, so I don't believe stress to be a mental illness

of, of, of, of any kind.

But can it, can too much of it, chronic stress lead,

lead us into a position to have a natural path,

pathological, um, psychological condition?

Yeah, it can, if, um, uh,

stress is like we talked about, it's a part of normal life.

It's not, uh, mental illness at all,

and people are scared to death for it to,

when you say the word mental illness.

So, uh, that's the good thing.

Uh, if you have, uh, stress too long, too much,

you get bodily illnesses like cardiovascular disease

because of the cortisol.

Uh, so cardiovascular disease, heart attacks, strokes,

obesity, diabetes,

and a lot of other things coming with it, they, they know,

we know now that also some types of, of cancer can be,

can come out if you,

because of your immune system being down too much.

And also depression.

Uh, so depression can be kind of the end state

stage of the mental part of this.

Uh, and they, uh, you know,

stress is really a word from, um,

the technical side of science

where stress is the, the power that you need to break, uh,

metal for example, that's,

that you stress the metal and it breaks.

That's the, you get a number.

And it's the same with the, with the physical body.

If how much, um, stress can you take on your arm

before you break it, that's also stress.

So that's the word they used.

And it's the same thing with the brain.

If you use it too much

or pressure it too much, it, it, you kind of

stress it, pressure it like you do with your own,

but you do it with your brain.

And there can be, uh, permanent changes, uh, from

that if you overuse it too much.

But then we are talking about those people

that are burnt out

and who never become exactly the same that they were.

And sometimes for good for, for a good thing

because they don't want to be who they were

because that was not good for them.

You, because that put them in that situation.

So absolutely.

But we are not talking about if you live a general

stressful life in the normal

and don't hit the wall,

I don't think it will really affect you for, for,

for forever if you do anything about it.

Interesting. So you, I mean, so what we call stress,

which we kind of throw this word around all of the time,

it is something that is may,

it has physical ramifications inside of our body.

You know, we're talking about, it's about the stress

of the stress point of a nerve cell, for example.

You know, if you are to, um, yeah, let's say push yourself

to the limits with let's say exercise

or your job, you know, you are stressing yourself out

so much that you are, well, one, you're in a fight

or flight sympathetic response where

that's not really congruent to healing

and reparation of cells, which we know they need to do.

Cells die, they replicate, you know, they can, they grow,

especially nerve cells, you know, they, they connect

with other nerve cells and we, you know, we have this,

we have this like symbi symbiosis going on,

but it's, um, it's interesting

that the actual physical stress

of working too hard can actually break

down your physical body.

And I think people have a lot of, a bit of a problem

or a bit of difficulty understanding or picturing that

because we don't actually see our brain cells inside

of our head break down.

Mm-Hmm. Physically, I think if we did see that on a scan,

No, exactly. Yeah.

That would be different.

Exactly. Because if you break your arm, you see it

and everyone knows and everyone pitties you

because poor you, you've got a broken arm.

But if you've got a broken brain, it,

it's just, okay, come on.

Just, just a little bit more. Just, just do it.

Uh, you can do it tomorrow then. Okay.

You know, it's, we don't, we don't care

for our brain as we sh should to make it,

it needs, uh, uh, regular breaks.

That's what, that's everything that's needed.

It's regular breaks every day. Yeah.

Short breaks every now and then. Yeah.

I think we have a, a quite big disconnect

with our mind and our body.

I think we treat our, the majority of people walk

through the world, mainly through their body

not really engaging too much.

Mm-Hmm. With the mind and what the mind's going on

and understanding that certainly does need a break.

And a break for your mind is not watching four hours

of TV before bed.

Like that's the opposite.

Like, that's like more stress,

more unnatural light at that time of day.

You know, these Yeah. Mm-Hmm. It's, um, mm-Hmm. Yeah.

But we don't, but we don't understand that as a culture.

I dunno if it's the addictive nature of it,

and it's just so easy to just flick a show on or,

or something, but we don't, maybe we just don't understand

what the damage Well, it's, it's

Still part of the system.

Yeah. It's part of, I mean, doing those binge watching

that's still part of the,

up here we have the systems telling us that that's

what we need to do from how we were living 200,000 years ago

because it's embedded in how we are Yeah.

Our basic functions

and we have to voluntarily get out of it.

We have to understand that we need to do something else

to find other ways to, to

regenerate the good in us.

Absolutely. Dr. Annika, you've an author,

you've written a few books.

There's a couple of them behind you.

I see there the take stress from chaos to

Calm. Yeah. I have written two books.

Why don't you tell us a little bit about them who

Are, and my dere Diary, who are they for?

Well, the, the take stress from chaos to com, that's, uh,

you follow a guy for six months.

Uh, it's a stressed out business leader who,

who is living a life he doesn't really want to live

with, results that he doesn't want to have.

And, uh, we walk through, uh,

and from a helicopter view, we walk

through all the different parts of, of the life with changes

to do with food, uh, sleep, physical activity, network,

family, everything, job of course

time, all of those things.

So it's the, you follow the guy for six months,

it's all the tools and the worksheets and all that.

It's in the book. So you can do exactly the same thing

with your story because it's not gonna be the same.

Uh, so it's, it's for it, it's written

as for a, a leader, but I mean, it's anybody.

You lead yourself.

So It's, it's anyone. It's a, it's a general story.

Story. And then the other one is, um,

my distress diary.

It's 52 tips.

Uh, it's one for each week of the year.

That's how we set it up.

Each tip is just a very short text about subject,

and it's ends with a question to you to

ponder about, about that problem.

And then there is a little space, if you have, have the, uh,

paper book, it's a little space

where you can write your own thoughts for your own life.

And then the next week you ponder about the new problem.

So, and they are more randomly.

So it's not, the, the first one is more of a, you go

through it in, in this order,

but this one is more random tips.

And if you do small changes every week

from thinking about your life,

you will do big changes in a year.

And that's written for anyone also with of course,

some business.

Since I do work mostly with business people, it's kind of

written towards them.

But I mean, everything I do is is general

biology for every person on this globe.

Yeah, I understand that. I, I I consider life,

anybody's life to be quite bus

to be quite businesslike these days.

So I'm sure it's accessible

For everybody. Yeah. Because

you do lead yourself, if not,

if nothing else. Yeah.

You have to be the entrepreneur

of your own life otherwise, and

It's all about mindset.

Okay. Wonderful. That's really cool.

How, um, what's the best way for people to

find more information about that and connect with you?

The best way is to go to my website.

I have, um, ask dr veronica do com,

A-S-K-D-R-A-N-N-I-K a.com.

And you have, I have the books there, of course.

And I do have a free gift, also a starter kit

for destress or write at the bo at

the top of the first page.

I have a blog with a, with,

it's almost like reading a book too,

because it's all different things,

but it's, there are tons of them.

And also if you want to hire me for different things,

that you have all the information there.

So that's the best place. Wonderful. And the contact page.

Wonderful. Well, thank you so much

for joining us today, Dr.

Annika. I really appreciate your time and your wisdom.

Yeah, thank you. It was a very nice conversation.

Wonderful. Well, for any information

about connecting with Dr.

Annika, I'll leave that in the show notes so you can,

um, access that.

Don't forget to subscribe if you haven't yet.

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