All right,

Matty.

Thanks very much for joining True Hope Cast today.

How are you doing?

Hey,

Simon.

I'm good,

man.

Thanks for getting me on the show.

No,

of course.

I'm excited to get into it.

I listened to a couple of your podcasts quite

recently,

and I think even though you've got the picture of

a brain right behind you,

I think you're a perfect person to speak to and

get on True Hope Cast.

There it is.

So,

yeah,

welcome again to the show.

And just for those people who don't know who you

are,

I've not listened to your podcast yet.

Why don't you give us a little background?

Who are you?

What do you do?

Yeah,

sure thing.

So,

based in Australia,

I'm Matty Lansdowne.

I've got a podcast called 'The How To Not Get

Sick And Die'

podcast,

and that came to be as a result of my years

working as a scientist in Western medicine in a

Western medicine hospital.

I used to go in and out of two or three

hospitals on a very regular basis in a university

as part of a cancer research team.

And I started there in my early 20s and naively,

wanted to know why nobody was working on the cause

of disease,

which sounds like a really obvious question to ask.

But when you're in your early 20s and you're

asking your 60-year-old professor,

he essentially just laughed at me and said,

'Matty,

if it was that easy,

we would have solved the problem already.' And so,

I just went on a bit of a truth journey,

which was totally organic.

It wasn't incentivized by my hippie upbringing or

any type of anything but organic stuff.

And when I went to the World Health Organization

website,

and it's probably still there now,

this is almost 10 years ago,

but it said in the first sentence on their cancer

page,

'90 to 95% of cancers are caused by diet and

lifestyle.' And so,

I just went from there.

Like,

why does the hospital not focus on diet and

lifestyle?

Why do doctors do not get education in that type

of thing?

Why didn't I get education in that?

I mean,

I went on to do an honours degree in nutritional

epigenetics,

which was just a coincidence,

but it still had no impact,

on patients functionally in the hospital.

And so,

yeah,

I just went down the rabbit hole.

I learned about traditional Chinese medicine,

natropathy,

all of the alternative things that have been around

for thousands and thousands of years as part of

culture and handed down for generations and

generations.

And yeah,

I learned that there's lots of ways to heal the

human body.

And in the process,

I got a nutrition degree as well.

And now,

I run a company that helps people and particularly

women with their health,

gut health,

and just get people back to the functional human

way that we should be living,

essentially.

That's awesome,

man.

Yeah,

we need so many more people like you.

And it's interesting,

you've gone into that conventional Western system,

asking questions and being curious.

I wonder how many of your peers that you were

studying,

people who you were studying with,

shared that inquisitive nature?

That's a good question.

I think a lot of people,

go into that profession craving the status.

I think as well,

many people do want to help.

But we're also like,

it's particularly those of us that are and we were

talking about this type of thing,

kind of before we hit record,

but like,

it's a little bit like Australia,

Canada,

the some of the UK,

a lot of these people in these countries were

born,

just inherently trusting the system.

And so before they've gotten so far into the

system,

before they've asked any questions,

and it's kind of too late,

if you know what I mean,

like,

got a mortgage,

got kids got private school education to pay for,

before they're actually like,

oh,

hang on,

there's something here that doesn't add up.

And if I start questioning it,

a question,

not only in my income source,

and my financial security and my standing in my

social group of friends,

but also my identity,

and there's layers and layers of stuff to peel

back there in regards to that question.

So I think when you're born into such a world

that is perceived to be so secure and safe,

you're not seen as as a,

it's like,

well,

there's a limit to them.

You get it's really easy to get super deep without

having to ask a question,

yeah,

that makes a lot of sense.

I think,

I think you're spot on in regards to we are

certainly born into all these systems that are

built around us,

that we assume are being run by really smart,

educated individuals,

but especially when we're talking about like

government systems,

you know,

like I was,

my wife was uh went to go get some routine stuff

done for our son at the hospital yesterday and she

was there for like 12 hours and you can see you

can see the the massive cracks and flaws in these

in these government health services,

especially especially over the last couple of years,

you know,

like the the um the clock keeps running but like

it just takes a little bit of something for it to

really really get knocked back on it on its butt,

you know,

so it's interesting,

yeah,

it's an interesting perspective that people will go

into like medical school.

For example,

with all these kinds of dogmas already implanted in

their minds that they wouldn't those questions would

not even actually neurologically spark in their

minds to even like go down that rabbit hole but

for you it was different so like it's interesting

you had those you had that different thought

process because you know everyone wants I'm sure i

assume everyone who goes into medicine wants to

actually help people I'm sure there's a percentage

of people who just want the the doctorate and then

you know you know wear a white coat and you know

play you know you know you know what I mean

status yeah the status.

The status of that which is,

yeah,

I suppose not.

That's an incentive in itself,

but then that could create a great doctor,

but there are so many people who do go into

medicine.

Most of them,

I think,

want to do good um,

but then they obviously get pulled into a system

that creates a very narrow road for them to walk

down.

Absolutely,

and I guess as well like there's a there's a line

that has to be you know agreed upon by the

individual is that at what point is it my

parents',

my conditioning,

society's fault,

and at what point do I take responsibility?

And I think um,

you know,

a lot of people have those feelings or have those

thoughts.

But they're just so entrenched that it's,

it's just such a major risk to take or to speak

those things,

and and that became extremely evident through the

last couple of years when,

when you know my esteemed colleagues that are much,

much older than me that have been around started

questioning some things in the last couple of years

and shut down rapidly like,

just,

you know curiosity is not celebrated um and I

think it was different for me just because of a

default of my personality like I remember as a

kid,

you know like really just asking my parents loads

of questions about everything like,

just,

I was and that's why i love doing the podcast as

well i just have this natural curiosity about

people and their journey and how the world works

and and i think at you know it might sound a bit

pretentious but being a scientist that should be at

the core of what i'm doing and i think that's

what i'm doing what drives progression and science

right is that genuine curiosity for the

possibilities rather than this model that is like

we will only fund and celebrate um research which

confirms what we need to be true to make a profit

and it's important to comment there as well that a

lot of natural health professionals or people that

beat up on western

medicine like also beat up on capitalism and i

actually don't want to do that because like

capitalism is a great thing where we're all here

trying to earn a living enough to do a little bit

more than we you know just go to work every

single day and so i don't think capitalism is the

problem i just think that the system was

incentivized in the wrong way so a lot of people

beat up on on the system and say all these rich

guys trying to get profit and don't care about

health um and i think that's the way that it's

gone but if we have an alternative it's highly

likely that it's going to be a capitalist system

that is the alternative we just

Have to have to incentivize curing people and

healing people and making people healthy,

and we can't make that shift in in a year or

even a decade.

The world,

like trillions of dollars,

go into this,

you know.

Every country's economy is it one of the core

pillars of Western medicine.

We can't just change that overnight,

you know?

So it really needs a really long...

maybe generational transition for a macroeconomic

shift um in order to support that change.

Yeah,

well,

so I think,

um,

I think I've got two young kids and every day

when they go out,

they're being they're asking questions,

they're being curious,

they're like these little Mini scientists,

you know,

trying experiments by playing in the mud,

playing in the dirt,

playing with water,

right?

And somewhere along the lines,

usually in the school system,

that curiosity,

that creativity,

that unique individualism just gets beaten out of

them because there are there's one answer for every

question and the answers are in the back of the

book,

but don't look because that's cheating,

you know,

so it's very,

it's very,

it's very resourceful.

No,

don't be resourceful and elaborate and maybe think

of alternative answers,

no,

of course not,

so that's yeah,

that's super interesting because yeah,

you see this,

you see this.

uh inquisitive nature with very small children and

you don't see it with adults you'd think that we

would become even more skeptical and ask even

bigger questions as we get older but somewhere

along the lines of you know zero to let's say 21

that that process in our minds just doesn't just

doesn't get um doesn't get nurtured and that's a

huge problem because we've got a lot of problems

in the world i think we live in an incredible i

think we've got an incredible planet here and many

incredible systems nothing's perfect but um we need

to be you know influencing individuals to advance

these things and ask these questions

And you know,

we can create wonderful things if we want to,

because look what we've,

look what we've done right,

so yeah,

it's uh,

it's it's a very that's it,

that's a whole different podcast episode,

that's for sure,

it's you know,

it's it's deep stuff,

yeah,

I like to,

I like to peel the onion pretty rapidly,

good for you man,

I appreciate that,

um,

I want to talk about dieting and especially yo-yo

dieting,

yeah,

as I said,

I've listened to a couple of podcasts and it's

quite obvious that you're not a fan of yo-yo

dieting,

I mean,

I don't think anyone's a fan of it because but

it's just a thing,

it's just a thing that we do,

so why don't you tell us a little Bit about your

experience regarding what is the key to like

sticking to a health plan or like why do people

yo-yo diet,

like what's the kind of psychology around that and

what's the key to like sticking to a health plan

or like why do people yo-yo diet?

That yeah,

that's a great question because it's so hard to

not get sucked into those things for men and

women,

but particularly women uh because all sorts of

reasons,

such as sexualized marketing,

you know,

social standing,

all of these different types of things.

But yeah,

I think you know it goes back to where western

medicine came into things which was,

you know,

the pill for an ill.

Kind of model,

which is,

that you don't have to suffer in order to get the

result,

and that's the same the same kind of psychology is

used by credit card companies,

right?

They know that if they delay the pain of the

benefit by a period of time then they'll get you

to spend more money than you have because the pain

comes in a month's time.

Um,

and so it's the same kind of thing with yo-yo

dieting; it's like we can get we can get the

success in a really rapid time frame um and you

know it's just a short amount of pain but it'll

be amazing,

and so it just speaks to that like desire to not

have to do hard work which is you know we would

all love that but it's just a short amount of

pain,

but it's just a short amount of pain,

but it'll be amazing,

right?

Like you know,

you could even argue that we're all inherently lazy

because whenever there's a better option,

we go for it.

You know what I mean?

If it's faster,

if it's quicker,

if it's cheaper like you know,

those are the points that everybody trying to sell

anything bargains with,

because if you can get those down,

people want it more.

Um,

so the problem is that in business,

in education,

uh,

in anything that involves uh learning that actually

works,

because you can cram information Into your brain,

you can find ways to do it,

and you can do it in a way that's um,

I learned,

I learned to speak an entirely different language

in nine months and then spoke on a stage in a

different country speaking about health and nutrition

in a different language.

However,

uh,

anyone and anyone could do that,

but when it comes to your biology,

we cannot hack it.

Like you have to allow adaptation,

and unfortunately,

you know,

six-week programs or 28-day weight loss,

or you know,

30 pounds in 30 days this extreme stuff does not

factor in the fact that the human body is not

able to do that.

So I think it's important that the human body

needs

To adapt and do that long term,

um,

and and the thing is too,

like a lot of the women that I work with,

um,

if you speak to younger women,

they're not really interested in sustainable results.

They have to actually go through the pain of

getting it wrong so many times till they get to a

point where they're like,

'I've ruined my body,

I'm so unhappy.' None of those things work; things

work,

I guess now,

I better,

yeah,

figure out how to do this in a long-term strategy.

And and a lot of this stems,

uh,

for me again from from the hospital.

It's like you know,

nobody goes to a cancer hospital to get cured;

they go to get drugs that will manage the state

of their Life until it's over and so that,

that's again,

it's not empowering; it's not helpful.

Um,

like we want to spend less time dying,

less time suffering,

and more time living.

And whilst ever we're moving towards these yo-yo

diets of on again,

off again,

on again,

off again,

that don't involve a mindset or identity shift,

we're just going to default to the person we were

that created the problem.

I think it was Einstein who said,

'You can't solve a problem with the same thinking

you had that created it.' Yeah,

I think the definition of like insanity for

example; yeah,

exactly,

like continuing doing the same thing expecting a

different result yeah totally wild because i think

everyone's got an experience with different diets i

think there's a massive massive element of like the

media and newspapers and celebrities doing all this

kind of stuff and you know that's that's appealing

because it looks like quick i always i always see

those ridiculous magazines you know when you like

you've got this super gwyneth paltrow you've got

super skinny beautiful gwyneth paltrow she's done

this diet and she's lost all this weight and i'm

like she gets to sleep 10 hours a day if she

wants to you know she she doesn't live in the

real world you know and it's just yeah

but she's got a doctor a chef a dietician yeah

i'm surprised she doesn't have someone to sleep for

her you know what i'm talking about so it's like

it's uh it's a completely different world and yeah

it's just false it's it's fake it's not real it's

not real it's not real it's not real it's not

real it's not real it's just trying to you know

it's selling you something it's a gimmick right and

i think everybody if they're really true yeah i

think everyone if they're really true with

themselves they know that yo-yo dieting has never

worked for them it's always been um they might

have they may have lost weight rather than you

know

Focusing on maybe losing fat or something,

never sustainable,

never super enjoyable,

and then you know the when the two weeks is done

or the month is done of whatever that might be,

you end up like hitting it even harder than you

did before,

putting yourself in even a way of like you know,

like you know,

like you know,

worse place,

and your biology is just like,

'What is going on?' This is not quite uh caveman

style that I used to be used to,

that my genetics are pretty much programmed for

what's going on,

oh absolutely!

And I think as well,

there's a lot to be said for the modern lifestyle

because we're always trying To be everything to

everyone and be everywhere and be good at

everything,

um,

and that's,

you know,

social media and advertising is designed to make

you feel that way,

like you're not keeping up with the Joneses,

you know.

And so when it comes to your body or all the

other things that are taking your time and

attention,

we end up with a world of people that think

looking after their own health is a waste of their

time when they should be getting better at sport

or they should be getting better at their job or

they should be getting better at you know spending

their resources external to their own experience.

And so I think like social

Media and dopamine addiction,

which comes along with the modern world,

um,

whether it be sugar,

whether it be like you know,

like you know,

like you know,

whether it be porn,

whether it be,

um,

you know anything that involves you going back for

more,

for more,

for more,

and leaving unfulfilled,

is is a culprit for contributing to this mentality

of I can solve a problem in a really short time

frame.

And we know,

and I know this from personal experience with

clients: I've had a number of people have between

50 to 70 kilograms uh cut off their body only to

end up working with me because they've had most of

it because Unless you shift the identity of the

individual and the core values,

unfortunately,

it doesn't work because you'll just find a way to

be the old person that you were; in fact,

you actually never changed you just used willpower

until it ran out,

and willpower is a very finite resource.

And the only resource that's infinite in that same

realm is self-respect and self-love,

but you have to cultivate it.

Yeah,

that's really well said,

man; that's awesome,

yeah...

The self-love aspect of it,

and it's like,

who does a two- or three-week master cleanse and

loves themselves?

I've never met a hungry person that loved life.

No,

of course not.

Yeah,

it's never,

yeah,

it's they don't talk about that on the front page

of these magazines either,

about the absolute hell and torment and what's

actually happening with your body and how confused

it gets.

So,

in regards to no,

right?

So,

in regards to what are the kind of some of the

key psychological aspects that one might need to

actually start thinking about making beneficial

health changes opposite to what we used to

recognize as like just jumping on a diet and you

know losing some weight.

That's a great question,

so I guess um knowing where you want to go is a

really good thing,

and what I mean by that is not just I want to

be 10 kilograms lighter.

Like,

if you look at the tool,

whether it be the diet or whether it be the the

thing you want,

if if it's not an experience or or of of like

being a healthy person or being a different person

or existing with a new set of rules then it's

going to fall apart.

So if you're like I want to be vegan or I want

to be um 20 kilos lighter or I want to be you

know just better than I am now,

those things don't last because they don't have any

meaning behind them.

Um so we need to start with meaning to your

journey and so we've got to figure out why do you

want to be 10 kilograms lighter or you want to

change this thing about

You yourself,

and usually people will say 'oh' because I want to

be healthy and it's like that doesn't mean much.

Do you know what I mean?

It's like why do you want to be healthy,

and you really have to push to peel the onion and

it might be like I want to be able to keep up

with my kids,

I want to be a role model,

I want to stop feeling like a fraud at home when

I tell my kids to eat their veggies and then when

they go to bed I smash chocolate.

You know,

and you start to get these deeper issues and

actually one that I've found from peeling this

onion hundreds of times with women is that actually

at the core a lot of the time feeling sexy and

being able to Reignite sexual intimacy within their

relationship is often at the core,

because they many people,

men included,

no longer feel like a man or a woman because they

can't perform this primal function that we are all

wired to in you know,

partake in.

And it's like,

I've got this partner,

I don't feel I'm overweight,

I feel disgusting,

I don't feel happy,

I'm not proud of my body; I can't interact with

this person because I'm embarrassed.

And it might be mutual,

mate; they might think,

oh,

they don't touch me anymore because you know,

I'm overweight or whatever the reason is.

So when we're getting down to this level of

meaning then we've

Got some real motivation for why you want to show

up in the world as a different person,

so we need,

we need some deep goals basically to start with,

to know really why are we changing this and then

second to that,

what is the cost of not changing?

Because if you're not aware of these things,

the journey's not worthwhile you don't know what

you're risking,

you don't know what you might get out of it.

So it's just kind of like I'm just going to

meander down this path and see what happens,

and it's like if you you know really know your

core motivator and you want it,

and you are fearful of the outcomes if you don't

do it,

that's not just you don't.

Just walk down that path,

you know what I mean?

You really commit and it doesn't mean that it's

going to be perfect,

but you really commit to a journey of experimenting

in being different in a different way.

Does that make sense?

Oh absolutely,

yeah!

The fact that you talk about it as something

that's actually quite deep and meaningful rather

than this like shallow idea of 'I want to lose 10

pounds because it's it's beach season',

you know,

something completely meaningless,

no emotion,

no real emotional connection to anything or anybody

else apart from you know being about yourself,

but if you are looking to get healthy for your

Partner,

or for your kids,

or you know if you're looking to get healthy for

your partner or for your kids or you know you

don't want to get Alzheimer's like your dad did or

something like 80.

These are seriously good.

That's why I do Sudoku like once a day; it's

because I don't know I want to - I don't want to

get Alzheimer's,

you know,

and I'm thinking about that now coming up to 40.

I'm thinking about my my 70-80 year old person; I

don't want to have to be dealing with that and I

don't other don't my kids have to be dealing with

me dealing with that,

you know,

that's not fair and it's not going to be fun,

you know like you know we should have this you

know steady incline of health for for a whole life

life and then like at the end of it just like

you know big decline right at the end and then

gone; that's kind of how I want to go.

But yeah having that deep meaningful insight,

yeah having that deep meaningful reason is going to

be a lot more powerful when you will inevitably

have the thoughts of like going to get a packet

of digested biscuits and smashing that halfway

through your new plan like there's going to be

those thoughts come up for you and then you're

going to be shopping and you're going to have

those thoughts; it's absolutely inevitable,

it's part of the.

Journey part of the rewiring,

but if you've got that forceful deep sentimental

emotional reason behind it that's so much more

powerful than just the past yo-yo dieting things

that I've done,

just just about weight and feeling a little bit

better,

you know it's so much better than that.

And I was like,

do you see,

do you see any themes or any really good,

I mean,

you mentioned like the uh the sexual attraction

this piece which is huge.

Have you any other like themes that you recognize

that you've seen in your experience?

Yeah,

well something that just came to mind that you

mentioned with the digestive biscuits is that the

other feature.

Of yo-yo diets is restriction and deprivation,

and nothing good ever comes from that.

Restriction always leads to binge.

One of the important things about making a positive

change with your diet and nutrition is ensuring

that you don't have a list of foods that you

cannot have.

Surprisingly,

that sounds counterintuitive,

but if the option is there,

we're less likely to trigger our inner rebellious

child to want to break the rules and and you know

get its needs met instantly.

And that's actually what happens psychologically in

in our brain: we bounce between parenting ourselves

and being the child that we once were.

When as soon as the parent puts restrictions,

like diet culture does,

and says 'no' you can't,

you shouldn't,

all these types of restrictive things,

the child looks for a loophole,

um,

in the system or or a way to break the system.

Just as every child should,

that's their job to test the boundaries.

But we've all got that child in us,

so we've got to make sure that we don't,

um,

set up an environment that caters towards triggering

that child or triggering us,

you know.

And so if we do,

then we're,

we're setting ourselves up to fail.

So like in my programs,

there's not a single food that's off limits,

and people just find they're not.

Going towards those things anymore,

you've got people that still there's ten-set eating

that happens that they go insane to to to such as

like penalty-acz and set-English be a copyright

punishment devoid the rules,

arty I yeah,

and at the same time we,

we focus on obviously but that the unit a

healthier food,

but without shaming any behavior that does go

towards that direction because sometimes those foods

are good,

sometimes those foods are part of the human

experience,

bonding,

celebration,

community,

and cultural tradition; so it's not about saying no

for never you know no forever,

but it's about having a healthy relationship.

With what those foods mean and which times you

choose to engage with them,

yeah having that relationship and yeah I think

that's a wonderful insight you've got there,

and part of your program of having those not

having this list of foods that you can have and

you know an even bigger list of foods that you

can't have absolutely that's going that that's

that's a part that's a huge part of yo-yo dieting

right literally having an A4 piece of paper of

stuff you can have that's like three or four

things and then this massive list of forbidden,

forbidden foods yeah like the the idea behind that

is just like yeah you're going to be bouncing.

Between that parent and that child,

and the child's going to win there's no doubt

about it.

The child's got more experience and more tricks up

his sleeve every time you? way so what when it

comes to um because I feel like there's a bit is

there like a specific age group that you kind of

work with because I know that a lot of the

nutrition clients I've had that have come from a

conventional system into a complementary alternative

alternative one they've had years of experience of

failure with conventional medicine,

drug after drug not worked,

recommendation after recommendation not worked and

then you know they get to a point They've had a

hundred doctor's appointments for this one thing and

they don't even feel a percent better,

so they have to go and do something different.

And you mentioned earlier in the show that you

know young people have a very different,

you know,

they want something quick,

they don't have that like experience of of getting

things wrong yet or recognizing that maybe the

system isn't perfect for like chronic illnesses.

So are there,

there are some examples of of individuals of like

who you who you do work with that come from a

certain background?

Yeah,

absolutely so I guess most of the people I work

with are that um 40 to 55 years old.

Old busy mother,

um,

that's just yeah,

just been on her own journey of having kids,

being worn out,

of being everyone to everybody,

um,

and is has tried all the diets intermittently

throughout you know the chaos of life and raising

the kids,

and it's just at a point where either there's

there's two major things: one is either I'm looking

at my parents or I'm involved in the diet; and

I'm involved in the support of my parents right

now; and there's no way I want to end up like

that; or it's the other direction which is I'm

letting my kids down or I'm not going to be

around for much of their of their life or to even

see grandkids,

and so I need To fix it so it's usually the

woman who has been in there done 10 or 15 diets,

committed to a few programs.

However,

there are a few I do have a sort of a smaller

group of women that are around their mid-to-early

30s.

Um,

and they're people that are in the middle of their

30s,

and they're people that are in the middle of their

30s,

and they're people that are in the middle of their

30s,

and they're people that are just health-savvy.

Same thing though,

usually parents are unhealthy um as well.

They've either had some autoimmune issues; it's

pretty common as well or they've got restrictions

due to the pill,

like the contraceptive.

Pill really messing things up for them,

um,

which you know I've definitely had a partner in

the past that had really suffered as a result of

that of the pill.

Um,

so,

so yeah,

but it's mainly women in that kind of 40 to

55-ish demographic,

yeah,

yeah,

it seems to be a prime demographic for a lot of

alternative practitioners.

I had uh Dr.

Hot Flash on the show,

I think she's coming on next week,

but um,

yeah,

I had her on the show,

similar demographic,

similar individuals who have been kind of like let

down and been put on,

let's say contraception from a very young age and

the damage it's done and like the education behind

what it might do was never Ever there that consent

was really never given in regards to like the the

ramifications of taking away

0,

0,

0,

0,

0,

0,

0,

that so many practitioners like yourself work with

I think it's just the course of life,

like by that age for many people um like you've

suffered enough um and you know the way that I

think about it from a by like a an evolutionary

thought pattern is basically you know some days

humans can say no to sex but every single day of

the week you'll get out of the way of the lion

so we're always going to be motivated to get away

from pain and suffering first and I think by the

time we're mid 40s,

like that's just the time where we're like I've

suffered enough I've been trying to get the

pleasurable outcome of the bikini body or you know

get you know fit and five or whatever the

catchphrase is but I lose motivation and and so

yeah we just don't move towards pleasure as much

as we are willing to commit to getting away from

pain um and I think that's built into our biology

because we've just spent the last you know 20 odd

or 30 odd years trying to get the pleasure thing

and realizing it's really unfulfilling and

unsatisfying and actually only lasts five seconds

and I ended up worse than where I started whether

it be just weight loss or whether It be gut

health,

autoimmune disease,

recurring,

um,

chronic disease issues that you're/you've been to

the doctor,

like,

you know.

Diabetes for instance,

which is just a management when we know dietarily

we can pretty much cure it for most people.

But if you've been going back and forth to the

doctor,

it's just more more drug to to make sure that you

stay where you are,

and that the diet advice from the hospital

dietitian has to follow the food pyramid or food

plate which we have now which is still a strong

recommendation of um,

grains and and carbohydrates which we know are the

cause of diabetes do you know what I mean?

Yeah it's like

What,

yeah,

we could go; we could go on that for a long

period of time,

but the idea of recommending one plate for

everybody or one diet for everybody or one food

group it doesn't just doesn't make any sense

whatsoever,

like especially when we know that everybody's so

different.

Um,

but yeah,

I think that especially that that kind of age

group that we're talking about,

that group of people,

whether they're 40 or above 40,

they've had kids; I i think that there's a big

self-conscious element that kind of disappears

because you've had kids and you've you're not 20

anymore; you're not like thinking about yourself and

thinking about what Other people think about you,

you're not like thinking about yourself and thinking

about what other people think about you,

you know like you're taking care of yeah time to

worry about any of that like non-societal nonsense

anymore and then you know parenting makes you

fierce and it makes you at some point realize okay

I really really need to do something at this point

and that kind of that self-conscious element of

like what other people might think of you goes and

then it's like okay now it's really time to do

something for me and I wonder like how the

community aspect of doing that with other people

because I think like Until people are like,

'You know,

like,

you're not like that or you're like you have an

honest can't or a like about it,

like most people are like,

'Yeah,

but I've never done anything about and we date,

like,

much,

it's we just like you know,

like,

we think,

like,

we want to go to that one man right there,

we want to go on this ride,

y'all go on this like this.

I think that's just being instance of like keeping

yourself clear.

Like,

we're my god.

I feel like that's like a blacksmith.

I feel like someone would say,

'Like,

so you know I'm like Wikipedia and what if you

really zoom into that?

What does it take to get everybody connected,

so you know,

that kind of thing.' So I think that's also one,

I think I hope I think about it,

um yeah,

I don't you know,

I think there's so many and let me just ask you,

so I've got other people,

I feel like we've talked to people like you know

a lot of people who like um why and not the BS

one,

you know,

why people really doing these things there must be

like a communal process or something you know,

a lot deeper that you are doing as a practitioner

with your client and your other clients together

absolutely so I think that's one of the interesting

things that I've learned from being um just super

curious and trying to learn lots of things even

for myself is that information.

Is almost never,

not always,

but almost never the transformational variable,

and everybody knows that,

because we've all listening to podcasts,

we're all going to summits,

we're all going to events,

and we've got so much information.

But I think it's like the tank's full of

information,

but it drops down to like five or ten percent of

those uh that information we take action on,

and the success rate is like 0.01%.

And so I think,

and if if information worked,

we'd all be really happy to be able to do that.

And I think that's one of the things that I've

learned from you is that you're rich,

sexy,

and super happy because Google exists,

don't you?

know what you mean,

and I think you you raise a really good point in

that saying that the bits that are actually

important for transformation,

regardless of the journey you're going on,

is community support and accountability.

Um,

is that you know,

knowing that somebody sees you and cares about you,

and if you don't rock up to a call they're going

to check in and be like 'Hey,

what's going on?' um,

you know what I mean?

And so that's why,

like,

well I do that for my clients,

but also I make sure that when they join the

group there's an each got accountability partners,

we have a weekly call if they're not there

somebody will check in on them um.

And I think that element is really important

because when things are going really well,

again,

regardless of the context of your life,

you can be super happy in your own company or

with just one friend or just your partner.

It's when things don't go so well,

it's when things fall apart and an old pattern

comes up or you trip over or you fall off the

bandwagon or something catastrophic happened in your

life or even if it didn't,

it wasn't catastrophic,

you know it just didn't go to plan this week

that's the time when the community is important and

that's also the time where in the absence of

community support and accountability.

You just revert back and stay there,

so that's why that element is so important,

and if we're talking particularly about women,

and we think about um the way that humans evolved

and spent thousands of years together,

particularly for women they were very communal,

they raised the children of the tribe or the

community together as a collective,

which which is really different to now because

we're getting to situations where women get to

their 40s and 50s and try and lose weight,

try and get a regular cycle back or do all these

things,

and it turns out the last 30 years of stress is

actually the problem,

it's like their their adrenal Glands their cortisol

was pumping for 30 years straight,

whereas we were conditioned.

Women were conditioned in an environment where we

all shared the stress together,

so instead of 100 on me and none on you,

it was like five percent for each of us,

and it's; and it worked very similarly for the

men.

The men went and did their thing,

and I'm not saying that we should necessarily

conduct society in the same way,

but I am acknowledging that our hormonal functions

and our bodily functions were designed for that

type of cultural village,

you know,

tribe setup.

So now when we're in this era of everybody doing

everything,

and I'm raising my kid alone and nobody else can

have any say that there is actually a hormonal

cost to that and there is to men too that just

go and sit in front of a desk or just you know

and as well as you know the dads that do the

parenting same stuff but if we talk about you know

the man or the woman going to work that's not

natural for our hormones either to sit in front of

a desk,

stationary,

sedentary all day every day so I think it's really

important to acknowledge that whilst we're in this

world of advertising and marketing and social media

and everybody feeling making you feel like you're

doing not enough even though you're doing more than

Any humans ever done in history that actually,

we need to wind that back because you know,

raising children as a community,

being involved in one another's lives,

sharing experiences goes back to that core human

need for um,

for,

for community connection integration understanding and

that doesn't happen in that at-home yo-yo diet

thing that you try by yourself uh,

and when you fall off the bandwagon no one's there

to catch you,

yeah I wonder why we have in our culture this,

this aversion to simplicity and community and and

taking advantage of it and taking advantage of it

and taking advantage of it and taking taking a few

steps.

Back to maybe reassess to see where we're going,

you know,

like I always think about how not so long ago,

like three maybe even four generations of family

would be living under the same roof right?

But now it's like we need to get out of the

house as soon as we possibly can and it's

completely crippling our,

our family relationships,

and and our friend relationships because we have

somehow just like decided that we really need to

separate each other and distract us from all this

busyness and the busier we are,

the better we are,

and then it just you know it comes to a point

where a big chunk of our life is already Gone,

like 10,

20 of our life is already gone before we wake up

and realize that,

you know,

we do need to be and want to be close to our

our family and our friends.

And,

you know,

we we we need that human connectivity.

And whenever people make really good sustainable

natural progressive change - whether that might be

that a diet plan or whatever that might be it's

it's with other people,

and it's also like with a different person inside

of you,

because you can't go into that new plan with the

same psychological thinking that you've done in the

past.

You have to start being different; you have to

start thinking,

feeling,

behaving in different ways to get That different

result and people start getting reintroduced to a

new version of themselves,

which can only amplify the work that you do in

their lives,

and that's what we're trying to do with them,

to know,

really uh yeah hit home in regards to good

positive health change and healing.

I think the answer to the question why do we do

this is definitely just because we've got

consciousness like that's the thing that trips us

up right is that the ability to contemplate

possible outcomes where the you know maybe the the

animal more animalistic version of us,

maybe the Neanderthals,

they were quicker to decide,

because there Was less cognitive of what is

possible,

what if I do go down here or what if I go back

there?

Do you know what I mean?

And so we've got this part of our brain that's

like that's evolved in very recent history and we

just don't know how to use it.

And I think that's one of the reasons humans

haven't evolved that far,

and how long we've been here because we spend the

first 60 to 70 years realizing we're doing all the

wrong things,

and then we've only got this tiny portion of years

at the back end of our life to be like 'Oh,

it's actually about connection and being present and

enjoying every moment.' Oh my god,

I've just wasted all this time trying.

To be everywhere but the current moment,

and so in all the generations we've had,

there's like there's the odd person in the social

group that's a bit more you know spiritually

advanced,

you might say,

than everybody else.

But most the human race has spent I would say 90%

of their existence chasing their tail,

only to realize it's not about the tail.

Yeah,

spot on,

I think that's huge,

I think uh really interesting and fascinating; the

psychology that people go through,

especially when they're like on the on the edge of

making a change,

they're not taking that step yet but they are very

susceptible to new information,

a new way of doing Things because they've had such

a lack of success in the past,

and it's a it's a fascinating place to be at,

because yeah it's a,

it's a place of unknowns,

it's a place of unfamiliarity,

and that's where real wonderful things can happen.

What do you think are the key things that hold

lot of people back from taking a step like that?

That's a great question.

I think well there's a few things,

and it's kind of like I think it's Tony Robbins

or Jim Rohn they regularly repeat the line that

you're the average of your five closest humans or

your five closest friends,

and I think just in the same vein that we're

discussing,

like community is So important is transformation,

equally it's the biggest barrier.

And anyone that's studied a health degree knows

they would have done social determinants of health

and we know across the board that your postcode is

more impactful than your genetic code.

And that's because we assimilate we're pack animals

and we assimilate ourselves into the group that

we're surrounded by,

usually in the first you know 10 to 20 years

that's our family.

And that's why most people grow up to embody the

same diseases,

the same poor behaviors,

the same relationship types as our parents because

the first 20 years of the most impressionable.

Impressionable part of the human experience,

we just copy those around us because we're trying

to figure everything out,

and then we move into a social group that likely

mirrors what we have at home in some way and so

that community is equally the biggest barrier to

progress.

So I would say that the most important thing is

to start changing up your social circle,

which is really tricky because it's it's a real

social risk,

and being pack animals,

social ridicule is a real threat to our survival

on a really deep reptilian brain level.

So if we're and,

I know many of the listeners will know and maybe

you too Simon,

like if you start To make a change or you

remember back when you started to make changes,

people being like,

'What are you doing that for?' or like,

'I hear from clients their friends are like,

'Oh,

you're gluten-free now.

What does that mean?

Like I can't have dinner.'

Are you gonna judge me or you know you don't

drink anymore do what?

Oh,

you're not gonna be fun like all of these and

they people start spitballing these belief systems

at you about your choices and for many people that

beats them down because they're like,

'Oh,

these are my friends and I don't know where I'd

be if I didn't hang out with these guys on Friday

night so I better assimilate to the common.'

Beliefs of the group that I am within,

so I think it's really important.

The second thing is,

so that's the social element,

but then there's the biological too,

which is our nervous system is always focused on

familiarity because when it's not when it's

familiar.

If you're a person that's a part of your social

system and you're not just a living human,

and your your um central nervous system is in an

environment that it's familiar with,

it knows that well we haven't died yet so this

familiarity that I'm in breeds security,

certainty,

and certainty,

and survival into its literal wiring.

So even the person that's in a relationship.

With a abusive partner or the person who can't

stop eating donuts because even though they know

the partner's bad,

or the relationship's bad,

or they know the food is not good for them,

because they're so familiar with being safe and

secure and not dead in that pattern of behavior;

any step outside that lack of familiarity for your

nervous system puts alarm bells off,

because it's like it's basically that saying 'better

the devil you know than the one you don't' -

that's literally the way your nervous system

interprets it.

That security,

although we know it's not good,

because we've seen the ads and we've seen Maddie.

And Simon having these conversations,

but actually we don't know what's on the other

side of this decision,

so that's risky.

So we've got the the social element,

so the people around us keeping us down,

but we've got our own nervous system saying 'hey,

don't go too far outside the comfort zone because

we don't know what's going to happen in the wild

west.' And that's why I preach on my podcast and

with my clients that the phrase 'one tweak a week'

like fad diet culture is off the deep end 400

kilos of kale,

no chocolate ever again,

and it's a disaster.

So we have to go one,

one small change at a time,

and condition the nervous system to that

transformation.

A little bit of a change,

and then we're going to have to do a little one,

then we step onto the next one.

Awesome!

What kind of those uh early tweaks that you

recommend?

Well,

in the beginning,

so I would always start with the mindset because

that's going to be the guiding uh force behind any

change or difficult situation that comes up.

And so,

the first thing would be to get people to realize

that they are not their thoughts,

which is is really like overwhelming for some

people; they feel controlled by their impulses and

driven by their cravings.

And so,

the first tweak is literally to bring those

experiences out in front of your face.

like as as you know like i often refer to them

as balloons so that you can actually put yourself

in the driver's seat again of your decision making

and so that takes a little bit of practice too

just catching yourself in old habits and being like

oh what got me here you know so that's kind of

where we start we're starting to make those tweaks

and and eventually we get back in in the driver's

seat and and from that driver's seat we can

actually see do we turn left do we turn right do

we go straight ahead rather than just being on

autopilot and then moving from there and then with

nutrition instead of changing all the nutrition we

Start one meal at a time,

it's like,

okay,

breakfast.

How are we going to do breakfast right?

And we'll just focus on breakfast for the next two

weeks,

don't worry about the other meals,

just do what you've always done there,

and you know,

inevitably there'll be some days that work and some

that don't,

but you know,

hopefully by the end of it,

it's about 80% on the mark,

and then we'll go,

okay,

let's stretch that out to lunch.

We know how to do breakfast,

and our nervous system and our our shopping cart

now understand what to do now.

We'll move out to lunch,

and so it's that kind of thinking rather than I've

got to be perfect.

You know,

on day one,

and if I stuff up then the group is going to

judge me,

um,

you know what I mean?

So it's like yes,

one small project at a time,

and there's a lot of all-in or all-out personality

types that,

that you know,

like either all in on the diet or they're all

out.

And so that's really common,

and that's a you know,

arguably a self-sabotage strategy as well.

However,

what we do instead of going 'we leverage that

personality and say,

we just do it moment by moment' so we're going to

go all in on getting breakfast right rather than

all in on 10 weeks of nailing this every single

minute for the next 10 weeks,

you know what I mean?

So yeah,

we just We just use that same thinking,

but we apply it to the situation in front of us.

Yeah,

I think that,

yeah,

that tweak week; I love that.

Absolutely rather than completely replacing somebody's

habitual brain immediately trying to do that

overnight.

Yeah,

I think that's a really good point.

You know,

like I think it's incredibly unrealistic and just

never going to happen.

But actually using what we do know about

neuroplasticity in the brain and how you know if

you are to you know focus on kind of like one

thing and start rewiring that thought process around

that,

you're literally going to change your brain and

make that one tweak.

A week in,

like three or four weeks' time,

just like a new part of you,

and it's going to be something seamless; it's not

going to be something you're going to have to like

think about or worry about or have anxiety behind

it's going to be organic and be part of the new

person that's you,

so yeah,

what an amazing way to go,

responsible and great way that you're uh that

you're influencing your your patients there,

buddy,

yeah,

that's really cool.

Um,

just a couple more questions before we sign off

here,

what's the um,

yeah,

supplement industry like over in Australia?

Like,

do you have you know,

is it...

I've got no idea about it,

so like,

do you,

do you have?

uh good quality products over there uh most of our

stuff cup the good stuff comes from overseas really

um it's pretty similar to i guess probably viana

so if i were to do like bad fats like a plan

for when i'm training literally like doing Dry

protein between 3 sior that um food a i really um

that have got sort of evidence that they actually

work and experience using them with clients and

that type of thing.

But yeah,

I guess it's up to the individual too because like

the,

you know,

it depends on cost.

Branding is a thing and how much they want to

spend and whatnot.

But there's definitely brands I know to steer away

from.

Yeah,

okay.

Yeah,

it can be,

yeah,

I think everyone's got those brands and it's like

if they don't have actually any published research

or science or kind of like their webpage,

then it's,

you know,

that's a big red flag for,

it should be a big red flag for everybody.

But a lot of people,

yeah,

kind of get sucked into that branding and the cost

is a big thing.

And then you get so many people over here that

get their supplements from like Walmart or from

Costco.

And it's,

yeah,

it's,

in my opinion,

those are going to probably do you more harm than

anything.

So it's,

yeah,

it's interesting in different countries.

Might as well spend that excess money in the

produce section.

Right,

exactly.

Even if it isn't Costco for sure.

No,

totally.

Yeah,

with that one tweak a week.

So before we sign off,

tell us what can people expect from your podcast

if they were to mosey on over there?

And is there an episode that you might recommend

as an intro?

Oh,

good question.

So yeah,

how to not get sick and die.

What you can expect is me trying to be hilarious

about doom and gloom health information.

And that's the kind of the way that I titled the

podcast is that when I was trying to pick a name

and I shared,

they're like,

what's it called?

I said,

how to not get sick and die.

Almost exclusively,

everybody laughed.

And I was like,

this is great because so many health podcasts are

serious and they're by academics and they're not

very exciting.

So I just try and make it,

you know,

my big mission is to make the complex simple and

for everybody to walk away with it with the

ability to change something whilst also kind of

laughing.

So that's very much the goal.

But in line with the conversation today,

episode 126 is called the psychology of being

healthy.

So it would be really in line with today's

conversation.

And I go just super deep on what it means to

transform,

transform your mind in order to embody healthy

behaviors.

Wonderful.

I'll make sure that that is linked up in the show

notes.

Thanks,

man.

I appreciate you getting me on.

This has been a cool conversation.

No,

yeah,

I really appreciated it.

So yeah,

I'll make sure that everyone's connected with you

on your episode,

on that episode and your podcast because yeah,

interesting title.

And I've listened to a few of them as well.

So I can attest it's a good listen.

And yeah,

getting into some of the nitty gritty,

things about that.

Yeah,

making these doom and gloom things funny is a good

way to get the information across in a not

completely negative,

depressed way.

So yeah,

I think with the Aussie accent as well,

certainly helps because yeah,

I find that a very,

very interesting accent to listen to.

So yeah,

it's a- Ah,

that's good feedback.

Yeah,

that is.

Yeah,

keep it up.

Go more Aussie on it if you can,

maybe.

All right,

all right.

I can do it.

I can channel my,

you know,

my really country Australian relatives.

Perfect.

Yeah,

we've got that Aussie man guy.

He's super popular.

I think it's because he sounds awesome.

So yeah.

Yeah,

really ochre.

Yeah,

there you go.

Well,

I appreciate your time again.

Thank you very much,

Matt.

I really appreciate it.

And yeah,

maybe we'll get you back on the show because

there's a bunch of different ways we could have

gone today.

Oh,

it's so many rabbit holes to go down.

But Simon,

thanks so much,

man.

I appreciate you getting me on.

And yeah,

we'd love to come back.

I can have another deep dive.

Perfect.

Thank you so much.

Yeah,

that's great.

All right,

everyone.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of

True Hope Cast.

We will be back next week with another episode.

I'll make sure that anything that we've spoken to

about in this episode will be in the show notes.

You can get connected with that.

But yeah,

that's it for me today.

Have a good weekend.