0:00

herbs are these amazing plants that have um so many constituents in them that are

0:06

able to address a multitude of factors that are going on in in the

0:14

[Music]

0:20

body hi there good morning good afternoon good evening wherever you are in the world welcome to the official

0:26

true hope Canada podcast my name is Simon I will be your host true hope Canada is a mind and body based

0:32

supplement company that's dedicated first and foremost to promoting brain and body Health through non-invasive

0:38

nutritional means our current series of episodes in this podcast discusses how different therapies practices and

0:44

practitioners apply their profession to the huge topic of mental health for more information about trueu Hope Canada you

0:50

can visit us at trueu Hope canada.com and we are on all the usual social media

0:56

sites we've got another awesome guest with us today her name is Jolene craft

1:02

Jolene is an acupuncturist a herbalist a raiki practitioner and she lives and

1:07

practices in Victoria BC she's also the owner and operator of Victoria Community

1:12

Acupuncture here in Victoria a quite wonderful healing environment that I

1:17

think all victorians should know about and today we're going to be focusing on the application of acupuncture herbs and

1:24

chi gong when it comes to mental health so thank you so much Jolene for being with us first question how are you today

1:31

hi Simon thank you I'm I'm really well thanks awesome well I'd love you to just

1:38

kick things off please tell us a little bit about um yourself and your journey into becoming this healer on many

1:46

different levels it seems yeah well I um I'm a lifelong learner and uh when we

1:53

moved to the island I'm from the Prairies originally um uh I decided to

1:58

go back to school and changed my life completely um so I ended up at Pacific

2:04

Rim college and I did the herbalism program there first uh and then realized that I couldn't stop and I needed to do

2:11

the acupuncture program as well um so I recently finished that and have also

2:18

been getting into some chiong and learning about that and working on some teacher training for chiong as

2:25

well awesome how many years did you spend at a Pacific rank too too long

2:31

four I guess just the four for the herbs and AQ yeah I did it quick style wow

2:37

yeah that's impressive yeah yeah one of those like I've got a lot of experience at pres Rim college and yeah there's

2:42

people there that have been there for a long time yeah I mean you could definitely spend a lot of time there if you wanted to but we bought the clinic

2:50

here in town sort of halfway through schooling and so then it was like it's time to to move on so I can work and get

2:57

into my professional life sure that's great yeah why don't you tell us a little bit more about um Victoria

3:03

Community Acupuncture before we get into get into some specifics sure um VCA is

3:10

uh a multidisciplinary clinic here in Victoria on Fort Street and um it's got

3:16

um some really lovely practitioners we've got acupuncturist um uh raiki

3:22

practitioner reflexology cranos sacral therapy um rmt services and I work there

3:29

as a herbalist as well um and yeah it's it's just a really lovely space that's

3:35

um warm and inviting and we try to make it as uh welcoming as possible I've done

3:41

a lot of snoring in you Community Acupuncture uh like Lazy Boy chairs yes

3:48

I think I've personally worn out one of those chairs myself um so I can attest that it's a really wonderful um

3:54

environment to be in what was the inspiration behind opening up did you say that you opened it up like halfway

4:00

through your training yeah we took it over so it was an existing business and then we um took it over sort of halfway

4:06

through my herbalism program and so with the intent of of having a place to practice when I was finished school

4:12

that's awesome it's a great place to pick did you was it was it Ilia he was there before yeah he has Acula upstairs

4:18

now that's right yeah he's great he's an awesome guy yeah I think he also taught at Pacific Rim as well did for a while

4:24

yeah could see him roaming the halls for sure awesome okay well um I'd like to

4:30

first start talking about herbal medicine and mental health um could you

4:35

please tell us a little bit more about your kind of your perceptions in regards

4:40

to um how you would apply herbal medicine to to the really really big

4:46

topic of mental health yeah yeah well I mean herbs are these amazing plants that

4:54

have um so many constituents in them that are able to address a multitude of

4:59

factors that are going on in in the body so um you can have herbs that are

5:07

multi-tasking right like you can have something like skull cap that's really good for sleep but it's also good for

5:14

anxiety and like um ruminating those kinds of like circling thoughts and

5:19

things like that um and yeah just there's just so much you can do with

5:26

herbs and so many different herbs that you can use to to balance person and I think what it all comes down to is that

5:32

you're really working on balancing the system so um with any kind of issue

5:39

that's going on in the body there's an imbalance and so um what I've sort of

5:46

coming to understand is that everything sort of is all working to gain this

5:51

balance in the body whether it's um raiki or chiong or acupuncture or herbs and they can all work together really

5:57

well too um so it's this beautiful system um and we

6:04

don't always know exactly how it works and each herb has so many constituents in it um we know some of the

6:10

constituents and what they do in the body but on top of that there's this check and balance system within the

6:15

herbs themselves as well so that um when you're using them they they limit

6:21

themselves in the body to a therapeutic use in a lot of ways so that you're not getting too much of one constituent or

6:28

not enough of something else that sort of keeps it in Balance um I don't know if that made any sense yeah no that's

6:34

cool I think the key words that came for me there was balance yeah and I think that when you're using herbal medicine

6:39

whether it's the cup of camomile tea you're drinking right now exactly um you're you chose that tea over the many

6:45

different other ones for reasons right and I think when people think about herbs or herbal medicine many people

6:52

don't realize that you know a cup of tea is a powerful medicine it's a powerful herbal chice yeah and I would I'd like

7:00

to know more about the like the me the mechanism of action of why you know I think most people can associate cam mile

7:06

as like a kind of like a pre-bed relaxing sleepy type of um tea or herb

7:13

yeah could you maybe talk a little bit about like why why camomile is a good choice for yeah um I'd have to look up

7:21

the exact constituents so it's very complicated yeah yeah but there's um a

7:26

chamomile is known to be anotic and and um very calming it's a nervine um it's

7:32

also got a little bit of um bitterness to it which makes it an incredible um

7:38

help for the digestive system and as we know the digestive system and mental health are so connected um and that's

7:47

why there are so many herbs that you can use for mental health right because mental health doesn't come from just one

7:55

little thing happening in the body there's this Cascade of things that are happening in the body right we don't

8:00

always like if we can figure out sort of where that imbalance is originating then

8:06

we can pick better herbs for that situation right so um

8:12

insomnia why is that happening is it like ruminating at night is it um if we bring in some Chinese herbal medicine

8:19

then or Chinese um traditional Chinese medicine then is it like what's time is it happening is it like between 1:00 and

8:25

3 in the morning is that a liver issue then do we need to like work on liver

8:30

clearance um there's so many different things to consider so when it comes to

8:36

saying like oh I've got sleep problems M that could mean so many different things depending on what that that particular

8:42

thing is and then that would change the way that you would approach it with with herbs exactly and I mean traditionally

8:50

if you went to um health food store and said I had sleep problems they might give you something very specific like if

8:56

it was mild they might give you chamomile if it was a little bit more serious they might give you something like

9:02

um Jamaican Dogwood um but like I've

9:08

noticed working with people with sweep sleep problems is there's this sweet spot where one thing will work for one

9:15

person and something else won't and it's uh a little bit more about the

9:21

personality as well of the herbs too um sometimes sleep issues with sleep are

9:27

are from a fear of sleeping there's some sort of trauma maybe or issue that isn't

9:32

maybe even in your mind but um if you try and really put someone out with a

9:38

strong sleep herb their body reacts in the opposite way and it's more

9:43

sleeplessness interesting yeah so you also have to chop and change and play around with that and get the get the

9:48

feedback from the from the client involved sometimes the gentlest herbs are the ones that work the most effectively because they're just

9:54

encouraging the body to do what it already wants to do just like a s effect

9:59

to change that balance yeah okay yeah that's cool I I have a question regards to quality of herbs

10:06

so um you know going and buying some tea would be like a kind of a very quick way to introduce herbal medicine into your

10:13

life and I think a lot of people probably already already have that at their disposal definitely yeah what would be the difference between

10:19

buying you know like a really good quality tea like an organic you know tea

10:26

or like buying something that's you know a bit cheaper and maybe like a want to say a much bigger company right yeah

10:33

like I don't know like tley Springs them or something I don't know yeah yeah what would be the difference between like you

10:38

know me purchasing you know like that organic one or like you something that's a little bit more right so if we go back

10:45

to chamomile um if you think about chamomile when it's nice and fresh it has that beautiful sort of fruity almost

10:51

Appley kind of Aroma um if you're getting a quality herb um then it's

10:59

going to have more of the essential oils like those volatile oils still in in the

11:04

in the herb itself because they degrade over time um so you want something that's fresher and um that's sustainably

11:12

harvested or um organically grown as well because then you're not getting any kind of pesticides or herbicides in in

11:19

the tea as well um so it's really worth it on the other hand if all you can get your hand on is like tly Cham te like go

11:28

for it because it's still going to help it just maybe won't be as strong as some of the the better quality herbal

11:35

supplements or um herbs that are out there okay that's great um would you would are there any other like maybe you

11:42

know a lot of people might not be comfortable going to see a herbalist right now um but like you know is there anything that if you know if I I want to

11:50

let's go let's continue with sleep sure I'm anxious and I've got some sleep issues yeah um what can I do personally

11:57

to go out and buy something you know within a few hours I can I can start consuming something are there any

12:03

other other options sure there's some really good pretty safe options that you don't have to worry too much about

12:08

interactions with other things Um passion flower is a really lovely um

12:14

nerine so it's very calming it's really good for people who um are having

12:20

trouble sleeping because they're waking up at night and worrying okay so it's sort of that like worry going around the

12:26

brain um skull cap on the other hand is better for when you wake up at night and there's the worry but it's not so much

12:33

emotional it's a little bit more like task driven so you're worried about what you're going to do the next day so

12:38

there's those two personalities like um they both work for the same kind of thing but they have a slightly different

12:45

indication um valaran is a really lovely herb um it's good for sort of a wired

12:52

and tired personality could I go and buy that like is in the supermarket valan or

12:57

passion fruit valaran you'll probably find more often as a supplement okay in your herbs herbal yeah supply store um

13:05

it's it's not the tastiest it smells a little bit bad so you don't necessarily want it as a tea for instance but yeah

13:12

and I mean um St John's word is amazing for mental health but um care does have

13:18

to be taken when consuming it because if you're taking any other kinds of medication you want to make sure that

13:24

that's not cycling through the body too quickly and um yeah creating some other

13:29

imbalances yeah so it's obviously important to check with some people especially with St John's W right

13:35

exactly yeah okay uh that's great and I think that I know in Victoria for

13:40

example there's some really wonderful health food stores and many of the people who work in there are

13:46

incredibly knowledge yeah yeah so you can always go and ask questions for sure

13:52

that's great um you just switching off switching off switching on to

13:57

acupuncture you offer free needle-free acupuncture right

14:03

I do can you tell us a bit more about that because when I think of acupuncture I immediately think needle yeah of

14:09

course and that's the classic way to do it yeah but um there are lots of we also

14:15

call them laser tools laser so it honestly looks like a pen almost and you're it's a laser um that you're using

14:22

to stimulate the points so it's actually painless you really don't feel much of anything at all um the laser is placed

14:31

like the point is placed on the skin and it stays there for about 30 seconds um

14:36

and research has shown that it's the laser is getting to the depth that a normal needle would get to in the skin

14:42

so it is penetrating and going into the skin and it's it's basically light therapy right interesting yeah um and it

14:50

does have very similar results as um traditional acupuncture

14:56

um the one drawback with it is that you're only doing one one point at a time because you have to hold each point

15:01

sure you need like a like 12 lasers yeah exactly and I mean there are those kinds of systems out there but not one that I

15:08

have okay um but yeah it um it lets people who are afraid of needles or have any phobias or just you know not fond of

15:15

being stuck with a bunch of needles to get the benefits of acupuncture without having to go through the needle

15:21

experience and that's the main reason that people would probably opt for a

15:26

laser yeah is like a bit of a fear or be around n totally um and with the laser

15:33

acupuncture it's based on the same principles as traditional Chinese medicine so you're going about it the

15:38

same way you're assessing the patient in the same way um and using the same points that you would probably needle

15:45

anyway um and just applying it that way because I there are laser systems out there for like stocking or stopping

15:52

smoking and things like that and and those are really wonderful too um but they're not being applied in the same

15:58

way as tradition acupuncture and you're obviously working on the same Meridian points as you would totally in needling

16:06

acupuncture yeah and acupuncture has had great results treating mental health

16:11

like it's so good for anxiety sleeplessness and other issues that are going on um acupuncture is working to

16:18

balance the body and it's another way of doing it and I think the herbs are doing

16:23

the same thing they're kind of I kind of imagine the herbs going into the body and like scrubbing clean those little

16:29

like channels that they're encountering and they're creating these openings um

16:36

in the same way that acupuncture is so it's just another way of sort of working

16:42

at the problem I think it all comes down to Chi really and the proper and free

16:48

flow of chi in the body is what creates balance in the body awesome and yeah like um herbs acupuncture always ways I

16:56

the way I imagine it is doing something to give your body the ability to find that balance that it's

17:02

always looking for ex right it's it's not those things doing it it's your body doing it it's just giving your body the

17:08

tools it needs to find that balance on its own yeah and obviously especially with with herbs we've been interacting

17:14

with herbs MH forever before yeah before we were around the herbs were here I'm

17:20

pretty sure plants have predate Us coup bilon years so yeah and our interaction with them as humans and the the

17:27

historical application of of plants all around the world to different cultures is an extremely fascinating topic

17:33

totally yeah and um that that science and and research has to be has to be

17:39

taken into account yeah the um the powerful use of it totally yeah and with acupuncture you know you can look onto

17:45

Pub Med you can go on green Med info and the amount the amount of research that's available for acupuncture now and it's

17:51

there's a reason why it's available on on benefits and it's widely available in

17:57

most cities yeah is because it it really really works yeah it does and um yeah

18:04

when you find that right practitioner in that right place yes it could be really really powerful yeah it totally can be

18:10

it's amazing uh when I was in school I was at the student clinic quite a lot

18:16

and and realized during that process that I couldn't stop going to school without learning acupuncture sure yeah

18:22

yeah I think that's probably a very normal path from herbs to acupuncture in uh at Pacific room College

18:29

what do you love more um well actually I love Chong the most right now what a great intro into

18:36

that yeah well why don't you tell us what chiong is and um yeah let's then we

18:42

can go from there sure um chiong is uh there's thousands of different styles of

18:49

chiong um one really popular one is Tai Chi and most people have heard of Tai

18:54

Chi but don't realize that it's just a style of Chiang um maybe you've heard of

18:59

like the shaol and monks and they do the Marshall Chiang yeah there's also um medical Chiang so what you're doing is

19:07

you're using Chiang to um balance the body with the five elements so I've been

19:13

studying a Five Element form of chiong um and so you do these different exercises that work on each of the body

19:22

systems like from a Five Element kind of perspective um so they each kind of

19:28

focus on one of the organ systems in meridians uh and it's it's really powerful it's amazing um every time I do

19:36

it I feel a little bit better than I did before I did it wow how did you get into that um we do study a little bit of

19:44

chiong in school when we're doing acupuncture and it's something that really resonated with me and I wanted to

19:49

learn more about it because you can feel Chi when you're working with patients

19:54

there's a sense that there's the chi there and it's palpable if you can train yourself to recognize it and feel it and

20:03

sense it um and so that's sort of what I'm working towards I realize that it's there and I can tell but I I don't have

20:11

that sensitivity yet to like know exactly what's going on but it's coming and it just takes time and practice um

20:18

and also when you are working with energy when you which you're doing with

20:23

herbs and acupuncture yeah um the more that you recognize your own energy and

20:28

our control of it and can use it in the process the better um because the

20:35

practitioner is also part of the treatment process right you're exchanging energy anytime you touch someone so um I think it's really

20:42

important to be aware of your energy and um you know have a good relationship

20:47

with it that's cool how do you think someone could get introduced into into Chon because when I I imagine chiong or

20:54

taii I imagine um really own four wonderful relaxed older people

21:01

in the park you know moving their bodies in a really kind of slow methodic way

21:06

yeah um which even just thinking about is actually quite calming yeah um so how would yeah how would how how would

21:11

someone get into it um I would uh totally recommend white tiger chiong it's um an online

21:18

school um there's also a physical location but he's in Vietnam which is a little bit far to get you to do training

21:25

but you can do training um just do different types of classes online if you

21:30

want um and I'm looking at also offering individualized chiong treatments for

21:37

people so that you know once if I'm working with someone we can sort of identify what the imbalance is and then

21:43

put together a treatment program for them to start working on those imbalances themselves so when you're

21:51

working with mental health I think it's really important to look at like the basics first like diet um work with a

21:58

nutrition like find out if you're missing any supplements supplementation that is

22:04

useful and and necessary um and movement so like movement and diet those are

22:10

things that you do every day you have you know hopefully three meals a day um and hopefully you're doing some kind of

22:16

movement during the day so those are like forms incredibly powerful forms of medicine because you're repeating them

22:22

on a daily basis um and then you know as sort of things start to even out or balance out

22:28

you can add in herbs and acupuncture as you need them but that core treatment

22:34

principle of like good diet good nutrition and like good movement is is there for you every day and you don't

22:41

need to do or go anywhere for that right yeah absolutely obviously a strong Foundation to any healing process is you

22:48

know making sure that you are yeah what are you what are you giving your body to work with exactly on a cons cons

22:54

consistent basis and we have these incredible bodies in four Li to move

22:59

around right me to yeah exactly and I mean with the modern chiong we're

23:06

talking a lot more about fascia now um we're talking about how fascia holds

23:11

trauma um and if we can and scar tissue and all of these like patterns of movement and how even your posture

23:18

affects your mood I mean if you have a posture that looks like you know you're

23:23

sad you feel sad you can you can try it at home you know yeah that's cool and yeah it sounds like you just need some

23:30

space and patience and an open mind y to begin ex that type of practice how um

23:36

how would you say Chong compares to meditation um I I would say they're part

23:44

of each other um meditation is part of a good Chiang

23:50

training um routine and should be integrated and and part of Chiang is

23:55

meditation there are types of Chiang meditation you can do so integrating

24:01

that with the movement is um can be really powerful that's really cool yeah

24:06

I mean I think for me one of my one of my best practices when it comes to meditation is putting my Awareness on

24:14

different parts of my body and that's how I keep my keep my focus meditative State and you know if you were to you

24:21

know yoga is obviously another example where you're moving your body in a very conscious Manner and you you know

24:28

putting your attention in those different parts of your body and you know you're kind of scanning through meditation in in a still environment but

24:35

when you're adding slow rhythmic deliberate movement I think that can only add to the benefit again of giving

24:42

your body the ability to um reach that homeostatic homeodynamic totally state

24:48

that it's kind of Born to be in yeah and it's it's removing the blockages um and the blocks

24:55

are are leading to ill health in whatever area they're in um plus there's

25:03

the emotional component which is um not often talked about when we talk like from a western medicine perspective but

25:10

um emotions create imbalances in the body and vice versa so like if you have a liver system that's like not just

25:17

doing its job right that's going to create frustration and anger and issues

25:22

in in your life and vice versa if you also have a lot of frustration or anger

25:27

in your life or maybe aren't expressing it then that can lead to liver problems

25:33

so working with the emotions is so incredibly important for whole body

25:38

Health um and vice versa so everything's so connected you can't really take

25:44

anything and just look at it one piece at a time it has to be sort of this

25:49

holistic sort of looking at everything lifestyle diet nutrition movement and then adding in these other modalities if

25:55

you need them acupuncture herbs whatever else and it's probably that connectivity that really deliberate connectivity

26:01

that's LED you into herbs into acupuncture into Chon because you see the complimentary benefit of all these

26:07

things working together yeah and as a practitioner it's obviously very the

26:12

more the more tools you have and the more deeper understanding of um of these

26:18

practices and how people might need different different different nudges here and there yeah um yeah they just

26:25

absolutely complement each other totally and when I started I had no idea I thought herbs was this thing you just

26:31

did the herbs and then acupuncture was the thing all by itself but the more I learned the more I see how beautifully

26:38

connected everything is and and how all of these other sort of um types of um

26:44

modalities are also kind of doing the same thing and all working on the chi in

26:50

a different way just with different words or different different language um I think the first five

26:56

guests on this podcast all have Pacific Rim College oh in connection which is really amazing um I would love to ask

27:04

you what was your biggest lesson from your four years four years four years of

27:11

accelerated four years yeah right that's a lot of Summer semesters and Extras and weekends um through so through your

27:18

herbal and acute um puncher training yeah at Pacific Rim College being

27:23

surrounded by students and environment very uh connected towards healing yeah

27:30

is there one kind of big lesson that you you that you learned I think um the most profound

27:36

thing for me was uh I was in a student clinic um one day watch like an

27:42

observation clinic and I was watching um the teacher work with a patient and it was a very energetic type of herbal

27:49

medicine so lots of drop dosing and um working with the energies of the plants and then I all of a sudden realized that

27:56

I could sense some energy energ happening and like I had no idea that

28:01

that was even possible and if you had told me that 5 years ago well 10 years ago I I would have scoffed I would have

28:08

laughed sure yeah so just like finding that um knowledge and ability in myself

28:14

was the most profound gift from from Pacific GM yeah yeah I think when you

28:21

have a similar similar story but when you um perceive an energy yeah that is beyond

28:29

our senses you start to think about the limitations that our senses do have yeah

28:36

and the energies that are obviously all around us and how we're all connected at all times to everything yeah and just

28:43

because we can't see smell hear it touch or taste it it definitely doesn't does

28:48

not not make it real exactly and that's a really profound thing because yeah it's uh it just shows that herbs

28:57

acupuncture nutrition all these things have a deeply deeply impactful um impact

29:05

on on the body totally yeah yeah and um if we just open our minds up to some

29:12

other worldly possibilities um then really magical things can happen that's awesome when it

29:20

comes to um mental health um and your

29:25

training qualifications and the treatments that you offer and that you offer The Spar as well because there

29:31

obviously other other things that other services there that are offered that you don't perform yourself right um are

29:38

there is there anything that you think when it comes to let's say I want to use

29:43

the word anxiety right now when it comes to 2020 yeah do you think there's anything that anything that can be

29:49

really profound profoundly impactful and like really quickly CU I I've had experiences with clients with

29:55

acupuncture and it's taken maybe four or five sessions which could be couple of months um so yeah like is there anything

30:03

any kind of like one modality that you think could have like an impa impactful experience because I think that experience that you had at Pacific room

30:09

college and ones that I've had where it's like a bit of a huge Awakening which kind of changes everything yeah I

30:15

think when it comes to somebody trying to heal something whether that's physical or or mental yeah having that

30:22

big moment is really important and the kind of quick I don't want to rush it but the quicker you can get some to that

30:28

point that that's when they get really invested for sure um I

30:33

mean I think unfortunately there's everyone reacts differently to any kind

30:39

of modality so you never really know how quickly someone will find relief with any any that you're doing um sometimes

30:47

you can do I've had sort of good success with um drop dosing so very very small

30:53

amounts of herbs that you are formulated um in a small bottle and and then given

30:58

to a patient so that they can take it as needed during the day so it's not just like um I'm taking this dose of medicine

31:05

in the morning and at night it's kind of like tuning into your body figuring out when you need the medicine and then

31:11

letting the herbs help you through that moment of anxiety um that seems to be

31:17

sort of one of the more successful and quicker things that people could do and then you can work on the background

31:22

issues while you're while you're doing that so you have like a crutch in the middle um and then working on on the

31:28

background stuff with herbs or acupuncture whatever it is um in the background that's great when you when

31:35

you're personally assessing a client yeah does your mind automatically start pulling from all the different types of

31:42

training you've had now it does it's starting too yeah it's all coming together yeah and you're thinking about

31:47

like which organ system is out of balance and what signs are there and what herbs fit here and like when you're

31:54

thinking about when I'm thinking about herbs I'm thinking about them like as a physiological dose and and sort of

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thinking about the constituents in them and the sciencey part of it but I'm also thinking about the energetic part of it

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which because a lot of times you have two herbs that do sort of more or less the same thing but which is going to be

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the better choice for that person and so then that's when a little bit of the magic comes in because you can kind of

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get a sense of which herb is better for someone than another just by seeing and seeing their interaction with the herb

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and feeling what's going on there Sly you never going to have I presume you're never going to have the same same client

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or same treatment considering that everybody's circumstances that comes into comes into to see you is going to

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be vastly different yeah and you can get results with like a um a pre-made

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formula but I think a custom formula is always a little bit more precise absolutely um that's going to kind of

32:51

wrap it up um how can people get a hold of you jene um I am available at

32:56

Victoria community acupuncture and Spa um the website is vcas spa.com and by

33:03

email is info@ vcas spa.com um yeah and also on Facebook and

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Instagram I think it's just VCA Spar y yeah and my Instagram is Jolene corcraft

33:16

herbalist I believe beautiful well I'll make sure all of those um are available in the show notes for people to can

33:22

connect with you thanks Simon um do you do um like long distance consultations

33:28

for anything oh yes yeah we um there's an option to have um video uh

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appointments consultations as well and in the New Year I'll be setting up a treatment room in souk as well so I'll

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be a few different places that's great and you can get all that information on vcas spa.com but thank you very much

33:47

Jolene thank you so much Simon um this is the official trub Canada podcast I hope you enjoyed today's episode we'll

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be back with you next week have a beautiful day goodbye

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