0:00

we would end up getting charged. But the government would get a black eye over this because what they did is and and

0:07

this was access to information showed that Health Canada knew that they were going to create a crisis even before

0:13

they seized the product at the border preventing 3,000 Canadians from having it. And so they set up a 1-800 crisis

0:19

line which same type of thing basically calling it a drug or not basically they're actually saying the scripting

0:25

was um as soon as somebody said hey you know I was taking trial products what's up and they'd get kicked over to this

0:31

crisis line because they knew that it was going to really negatively impact Canadians lives and so they they were

0:37

already going into damage control and trying to redirect the populace thinking that they could avert the damages. And

0:45

so literally this is constituting criminal negligence at this point in time. Um and in many instances resulting

0:51

in death. I mean the company's called True Hope. And yet a lot of people weren't referring to us as True Hope.

0:57

They were actually referring to us as last hope cuz they had already exhausted everything available in the medical

1:02

system. And their game plan was I'm just going to take my life. They stumble across us and say I'm willing to give

1:08

one last try. And then they would try it. They get off the medications. to get their lives back and all of a sudden Health Canada comes

1:15

and removes it.

1:26

Hello all and welcome to a very special collaborative episode today between True Hope Cast, the official podcast of True

1:32

Hope Canada and the Purea Swallow the Truth podcast. This episode marks the first of many conversations between

1:38

Purea and True Hope, two Canadian companies that have walked very similar paths in the natural health space. And

1:44

where many within the industry have stayed quiet or stepped back through controversy, Purea and True Hope chose

1:50

to stand firm, becoming vocal champions for natural health choice, freedom, and informed consent in Canada. Together,

1:57

these companies represent and speak for the nearly 80% of Canadians who rely on natural health products as part of their

2:03

wellness journey. And in part one of this two-part conversation, Jason and David go deep into the origins and

2:10

evolution of Piraka and True Hope, the personal convictions that shaped their missions, and the early challenges of

2:15

building science-based natural health companies in a system often resistant to change. This is a candid, unfiltered

2:22

discussion about leadership, courage, and what it truly means to advocate for health freedom. Nothing is really off

2:28

limits. Everything is rooted in real experience, and everything is, as always, 100% natural. Enjoy the show.

2:35

Hello, welcome to this podcast. This is a joint collaborative podcast. I'm Jason

2:40

Watkin representing the Swallow the Truth podcast and I'm David Stefen representing True

2:46

Hope Cast which is the official podcast of True Hope Canada. So the two of us have known each other

2:52

for you said 23. Oh boy, it's been a while. 23 years. So since so Ba How old was I

2:58

then? It's been 2000. So I was 30. I was 32. Yeah, I guess I was 32 at the time

3:04

and you were uh 20 and we met through these pretty extreme circumstances

3:11

through uh David's daughter Tony. So we basically we're at this podcast between our two podcasts. I feel like the force

3:18

of what's coming in the future that we'll be collaborating a lot because we have the same rebellious spirit. Uh but

3:25

we want to share our stories of what's happened say with government o overregulation but also how intense and

3:32

severe it can be especially when you feel like you're sharing something really good and then you get some kind

3:37

of monolithic force it feels like coming at you and trying to stop you and and say horrible things to you and and do

3:43

whatever they did but then how long it can keep going when you stand up. But again in the end like we like to do on

3:49

our podcast and same as yours is the silver lining idea like how okay what comes out of this and we both have a lot

3:56

of confidence that faith that things are going to be pretty spectacular but it's not going to be without some really

4:03

intense maybe horrific things coming at us which you see all over the world. Uh but we want to keep this podcast about

4:08

okay what what are things that we feel are really helpful and what's coming on. So what do you want to start with? Yeah,

4:16

you know, it's interesting that that um our journeys have really crossed paths

4:21

because of the circumstances that we found ourselves in, not circumstances that we

4:26

created of our own accord really um but that founded themselves on our on our doorsteps. And so, yeah, it was through

4:32

my father that um we came together in a joint effort back in the early 2000s

4:38

surrounding Health Canada's yes treachery, if you will, against the Canadian people in trying to destroy

4:45

these solutions that we had come up with that were really blessing a lot of Canadians lives. In fact, saving lives.

4:52

Yeah. Absolutely. And so, for us, it was and David will get into his story. I'll try to truncate this thing because it's

4:58

pretty convoluted, but we were we were promoting as our company Purea, we were

5:04

promoting recovery, which at at the time it barely got a name because it was being given out for years to uh animals

5:10

and people with serious autoimmune conditions, things like that. So, we were just so happy because we weren't

5:17

from a business family or anything. and all these people including my brother, my dad, all these people having unbelievable results. And then we got

5:25

raided by the RCMP and Health Canada officials and they said that we're a

5:30

drug and they put CBC and Health Canada, the Health Canada coordinated with CBC and the government, the prime minister's

5:36

office to put out this hit piece on us called Recovery the Drug, Recovery the Drug Continued. And then we were what

5:42

the heck's going on? and they're they're trying to rate us saying that our product is a drug and everything because there was no proper regs back then. So

5:49

it was semantics. It was naming that they're trying to say we're a drug. That freaked people out. All the rheumatologists and and the orthopedic

5:56

surgeons that were recommending recovery and the vets all of a sudden what they're putting a drug in their product like what? So as a family we were true

6:03

CBC believers and the government's awesome. Canada's awesome. And it just overnight as we went further and further

6:09

down this rabbit hole, we learned that two drug companies in the states uh there was a presentation by

6:15

rheumatologists and other people in Ottawa that went into the states about

6:21

how recovery was working with autoimmune type progression in these serious conditions and they didn't like it. So

6:27

they put out a a piece approach to FDA Health Canada that this recovery is a

6:32

drug and it needs to come off the market. They need to do a application called an investigative new drug IND and

6:39

uh it was going to cost millions and millions of dollars for that and then you have to take your product off the year market for 5 years do all this

6:45

research when it's just all this n anyway we couldn't believe it because what is happening and then that's what

6:52

happened to us and then I guess they didn't know and we both share the same

6:58

uh lawyer Sean Buckley in the end he came later on in our case after it was six-year case and I just saw that the

7:06

media lies. So, it was there was so much lying. It was unbel we were there. We saw and they took pieces out of total

7:12

out of context. I was literally so naive at that point. I thought, what is going on? And then we came to the point where

7:20

I guess our lawyer Sean Buckley and probably the same with your dad Tony and David is that we're like that character

7:27

which I was explaining to you before. Back in the 70s, we had that little toy that was like, you know, Humpty Dumpty

7:32

little egg thing with weighted the the Weebles. A lot of you are going to know the Weebles. Weebles wobble and they

7:38

don't fall down. So, basically, they hit us with everything they had to try to destroy us quickly. They hit us just

7:44

before Christmas to try to stress us out to the max. We only had one product, so they seized everything. So, they knew,

7:50

you know, we're dead. But we had our animal side luckily, uh, the horses and dogs. And so that saved us, but it also

7:56

ignited something in me that I guess they didn't know existed because I'd never really exposed it before. And

8:02

that's to you when you're telling your story is we went through six years battle.

8:08

They got caught uh in access to information Health Canada at the time uh

8:15

certain employees that were uh spreading false information to the Department of Justice. So the case was quickly dropped

8:22

after 6 years and a ton of money spent. And the lawyer, the senior lawyer came, he actually shook my hand and it was in

8:27

front of my mom and dad and said, you know, this never should have gone to case and we we're to to court. We're

8:33

sorry. That's after 6 years of like intense intense stress and everybody in our company thinking we're going to lose

8:39

everything. We weren't allowed to advertise, but it kept growing just by results. So we were lucky because we actually had a product that worked

8:45

really well. Other than that, we would have been dead. They knew they would have got us and that's why they hit us at Christmas too for maximal stress

8:51

exposure. That's when I met through that's when I met your dad. But yeah, before you jump into that though, you just brought up something

8:57

that you say that you're really lucky that you had a product that actually worked so that it you know continue to

9:02

propel forward. But I'm going to put it forward that you would have never gone through that situation had you not had a product that worked.

9:08

Yes, 100%. No, this is what blows your mind too is that a lot of I think this

9:14

boils down to they wouldn't do that. No, they No. And I even thought that

9:20

like I thought they wouldn't do that. So I they wouldn't do that. What's going on here? I It's almost like you think, oh,

9:26

they have false information or they just think the worst of people sometimes. No, it was like it's definitely like a hit

9:31

piece on a company that competes against the drug industry. And then it was really interesting because as you go

9:38

down these rabbit holes, I want you to tell your story because we we're so aligned and your dad and I known each

9:43

other so long is that you realize that the collusion between industry and parts

9:50

of government is horrific and it's been ongoing for a long time and I had no idea until you go down the rabbit holes

9:57

and my mind like your mind you want to go deeper and deeper and deeper to try to get to at least some type of route. I

10:02

know we're playing 5D chess in the world and it's hard to figure out the moves, but at least get to some semblance of a

10:08

fact and then when you get really deep, you realize that there's literally certain groups that have a ton of power

10:15

and money, whatever, that manipulate and capture industry and capture government

10:21

and they all work together and it's it's really convoluted and whacked. And I love the idea when you start calling

10:26

that conspiracy theory, everybody, you start laughing at that. First, you start getting defensive. It's not a conspiracy

10:31

theory. then you just realize no, it's just ahead of the game and in a couple months or a couple weeks or a couple

10:36

days sometimes they're going to find that's true. So instead of taking it personally and getting upset when you

10:42

learn a new fact, right, which we've all been through that intense is instead just wait a few days or weeks and it

10:48

will it'll all prove itself. But that unfortunately that's true because it

10:54

feels you get disheartened, right? But at the same time, you're disheartened.

10:59

But you're also, as you get more used to it, you're thinking more and more people

11:05

are learning different types of truths that are more real than the news and

11:10

everything putting out. And why is that happening? And then you think, oh, something good is actually happening.

11:17

And like you said, but it's going to create that wounded tiger effect when you said they wouldn't be after you

11:24

unless it did work and competed against them. But I'm talking whole paradigm changes.

11:29

I'm talking complete shifts in education. We've talked about complete shift in medicine, complete shift in the old whole idea that politics will be

11:36

your savior. They're not your savior. Obviously, we saw that no party once they get in power, the bureaucracy keeps

11:43

running through. Yeah. Cuz they're all captured. And then you think, why do they never do what they say they're

11:48

going to do when you vote them in? Yeah. Because they're captured. They're beholden. Exactly. They're beholden to to, you know, basically the

11:54

shadow government, if you will. We that was, you know, a big paradigm shaker for us, that particular element.

12:01

Now, we knew that there was corruption in the government before anything ever happened to us. So, you know, to to

12:06

align with, you know, how our journeys came together. Um, and I'd want more detail from you cuz I've heard it from

12:11

my dad's side. I've never actually heard it from your side. Um so my father makes

12:18

a discovery with him and David Hardy that vitamin mineral proper vitamin mineral supplementation can completely

12:23

correct mental health conditions right and a lot of that was coming from the agricultural sciences where healthy

12:30

animals are actually profitable whereas unhealthy humans are very profitable for

12:36

a particular industry right and so um the discovery's made my family

12:42

is restored because we're plagued with severe mental health conditions like like complete crazy mental health

12:47

conditions and and multiple suicides. My mother took her life in 1994. My grandfather took his life in the late

12:53

'7s and I had siblings out of my eight siblings um myself included uh were on that same

13:01

path going down that road where suicide or homicide or some some something

13:06

explosive was going to happen and frequent visits to the psych wards with my older sister, you know, etc., etc.

13:12

And so the discovery is made and it makes it onto the news and it really

13:19

makes it onto the news after the first study came out out of the University of Calgary in October of 2000 and it went

13:26

national and literally the next day health Canada came swooping in, shut down any of the further studies. At that

13:32

point in time there's a double blind placebo control trial that was um uh scheduled to take place out of the

13:38

University of Calgary again. So was that Bonnie Kaplan? Bonnie Kaplan was the one that was going to head up that study and the funer of the study

13:44

was actually the Alberta government. $544,000 and Health Canada comes in and says,

13:49

"Uh-uh." And so they shut it down. And then same thing, all of a sudden we're a drug. And it wasn't based on the

13:56

ingredients. It was based on the application. You could not help somebody with bipolar disorder in Canada with

14:03

vitamins and minerals without it being classified as a drug. A drug. Yeah. Even though it's literally vitamins and

14:08

minerals. recovery was same idea. Yep. And so then um my dad tried to work

14:14

with them thinking, you know, there was a bit of naivity there and he's like, "Hey, how do I get the drug identification

14:20

number? I'll I'll work with you." And it finally came clear at one point in time after about a year of attempting to work with Health Canada that one of

14:26

the agents told him, you know, they just said, "Mr. Stefan, if you want to continue doing what you're doing, you might want to move

14:32

south of the border." Right? Like how perverse is that? That this incredible

14:38

Oh, absolutely. Saying it doesn't matter that it's has any merit. No,

14:44

you're just not welcome to do this in Canada. This discovery, this phenomenal discovery in the field of mental health

14:50

is not welcome in Canada and Canadians aren't welcome to have access to it. And so that at that point my time at time um

14:58

my father was actually looking at moving him and David Hardy. And I remember I was in my later high school years. And

15:03

I'm thinking grade 11, I'm moving down to Utah. Really? Cuz that's where they were going to relocate. Yeah.

15:09

And it looked like it was a go. Looked like we were 2 months away from moving type thing. And I was planning it out

15:15

and thinking, how's my life going to be? And how's the snowboarding? Right. And uh and so I was, you know, that's

15:21

where my mind was at that point in time. And then things turned and my father dug in his heels and said, "Uh, I'm not

15:27

going to let some bureaucrat in Ottawa tell me whether or not I can bless the lives of other other Canadian families like my family's been blessed." And so

15:34

he just started to ignore their cease and desist orders. And finally by early 2003, they came in and um seized all the

15:41

product at the border because it was getting produced in the States. And then they came in um when things

15:46

started to heat up and protest started to happen. That's when they responded with a RCMP SWAT team came and raided us

15:52

at gunpoint and you know and then that's when I believe every the connections were made.

15:57

They came and raided our manufacturing facility and and seized everything and blocked it and it was pretty brutal. Like taped it off and

16:03

everything was blocked. We only had that one human product just recover because we didn't intend to be a company ever.

16:08

So it was like just yay and not realizing oh my god we don't have anything left. So so I've heard the story from my

16:14

father's side. So how did my understanding is that you formed my dad at one point when all this went down with Health Canada.

16:19

Yes. Because through the organization the Friends of Freedom who then uh was we were actually lobbying in in Ottawa

16:27

at the time. So we familiar with all the different Paul Martin uh Steven Harper

16:34

uh Jack Leighton talked to him all and the speaker of the house. We were there several times. Anyways, ours was Yeah,

16:40

we got covered two lengthy things on CBC Health Matters by this guy that's a

16:46

definite liar. Like the things he told was and I that's what blew my mind. Anyway, so we didn't know what to do.

16:52

And the idea was they came in, they seized everything. When they seized everything, there were literally people

16:57

under their desks hiding, including so so much fear because the RCMP was there,

17:02

these enforcement people, and they acted like we were criminals, 100% criminals, and all we were doing

17:08

was producing a product that now is completely fine. Uh, trying to make it look like we're criminals. And then they

17:14

put hit pieces to make it look like we're these unethical hit. And then I started to realize all of them are

17:20

unethical. And then they even had even when we went to these pharmacy shows when we were presenting in the they call

17:27

themselves they they basically hijacked the term ethicals. They call themselves

17:32

ethicals implying that anything outside the pharmaceutical realm is unethical. So I thought okay then I my mind is

17:38

always in psychology and all this deep philosophy and ended up spiraling me into comparative religion philosophy for

17:43

years and years. But I thought, okay, all of these psychological manipulative techniques are used and the idea of

17:51

social engineering to put all these hit pieces to get public support to make it then look like even people who knew us

17:56

and thought we're the really nice people and everything, oh my god, underneath we didn't know them. Making it look like we're the bad. So going through all

18:02

these years, they came in, they then seized the product. People were fleeing

18:08

the building because it was so scary for all the people working. So, and people hiding under desk the entire time for

18:13

hours that were there. I was trying to constantly give them evidence of things we had been giving to them that they

18:19

don't deal with like actual drugs and products in areas of Chinatown because that's what they do in China. They mix

18:24

drugs and and different herbs because a lot of people in China won't accept pharmaceutical medicine without TCM

18:30

added. So, it's normal. Anyways, it's there. You're not regulating that and you're trying to call us a drug and you

18:35

let real drugs be passed in just stores. So, anyways, we're talking about that and they wouldn't deal with it. deal with it. And then we went so they came

18:42

in, seized everything. It's very stressful. The one fell that we were working with, uh, he was our VP at the

18:48

time, Rod Sidov, he's now with Natural Factors. He was there. He was trying to play the good good cop. Not trying to play it. He

18:54

was being the good cop cuz I was getting a bit fiery because that's my nature. I get fiery if you're trying to do something that I think's wrong. So, I

19:01

was a bit fire. Said, "No, I'm sending this to United States. You don't have any authority in the United States. You can't do this. I want to talk to your boss." And then Rod's playing the good

19:08

guy. And finally they said, "Don't be so don't get so formal. Don't get so

19:13

formal. It's not just relax." And they had seized everything and it was the end of our company, right? We paid for all

19:19

the stuff already. And then that hit Rod. And Rod's a tall guy like he stood

19:24

up. He says, "What are you saying? This is about people's mortgages, about people's livelihood. You come in here.

19:30

We're not doing anything wrong. All the lies are coming through." Then they got really stressed because he, you know, we're both standing together. So that's

19:36

how the anyway that ended. Then we had to go to court. Lengthy lengthy process.

19:42

I was going down rabbit holes and never sleeping for like solid seven days a week for years because and what I

19:48

learned that's what we were talking about earlier. I just started learning about things because I saw so much

19:54

corruption and lying, so much capture and it was so in yourrface obvious. And

19:59

every party that would be with you at once and you're lobbying and then once they got in, same thing. And I we talked

20:05

about earlier I thought what is going on here? And then I realized you you realize hardcore it comes so apparent

20:12

and then even the lawyers are are looking at it saying yeah they put a hit

20:18

on you. They want to destroy your company while you're still small enough to do that. And we so we tried mediation

20:24

with them first and we went so it's it's a government mediator and it's us with

20:30

our lawyers and health Canada east and west divisions with their legal team and we're all sitting at a table and you

20:37

know interesting enough this is weird for anybody that has this thing is Western office health Canada the the

20:43

prefixes for their numbers are all 66 that was weird oh it's not weird

20:48

okay right so in in the thing finally the mediator came to the point where he said to

20:55

health can I just want to can we hold off for one sec. So he said to health

21:01

Canada he said so let me get this straight. So say if I have a grocery

21:06

store and in the produce section uh people are coming to buy the produce and

21:12

that's fine and everyone knows that eating that is helpful to prevent against cancer, heart

21:18

disease, skin anti-aging, all that kind of thing. Everybody knows that, right? And even the National Cancer Institute at the time was putting out all that

21:24

stuff all the time, 5 to 10 servings of of fruit and vegetables per day is prevented against cancer, all these

21:30

things, stroke and heart, right? Um, so anyway, he said that's fine, but if you put a sign there that

21:36

says eating 5 to 10 servings of fruit and vegetables per day, just like the

21:42

National Cancer Institute, the heart foundational says in there is helpful to

21:47

prevent and can support against your body against preventing against heart disease, cancer, stroke, whatever that

21:53

then you would then that would be considered a drug and you would have to have a pharmacist inside the produce

22:00

section of But this is where it gets super funny. Without even batting an eye,

22:06

the representative from Ottawa, the head woman that was there, she said, "Exactly." But so it but the mediator

22:13

was so floored in the room cuz he thought, "What?" And he said he couldn't believe that she and she was 100%.

22:22

There was no ifands or but. So they hadn't come there to mediate. They had come there to state their position and say do it or die kind of thing. Yep. And

22:30

then then I started to realize, okay, this is interesting is we're going at this case the wrong way. And this is

22:36

where I think that we need to change strategies in how we look at freedom. Is

22:44

these people that work for government that just do as they're told? When they all said, I was just doing as I was told. I was just doing what I was

22:50

supposed to. Give give me a break, please. That's how societies fall. Anyway, I thought, okay, you're just

22:55

doing as you're told. you're collaborating with the thing that you don't morally agree with, ethically agree with, you know, is intellectually

23:00

wrong. You know, it's morally wrong. And so I thought, you keep on going after the top guys, but they always have all

23:06

these gatekeepers. Yep. So I was saying to our lawyer at the time, can't we go after the people that

23:13

are in the room with us, the people that are communicating on emails with us, which are the low ones on the totem pole? And they basically saying, well,

23:18

we don't do that. Why would you want to do that? And my philosophy is because I think that people that follow rules that

23:24

they know are wrong over and over and over again that hurt other people are cowards. So there there's a cowardice

23:31

and and I'm sorry not their cowards. There's there's cowardice there that needs to be changed. But it's hard to

23:36

change that because they see you as an enemy. Y because now they're just doing as they're told. So now you're the enemy.

23:42

So if you go after them, this is my this is my idea. I thought it would work. If you go after the lowest people in the

23:48

totem pole, then they can't hack that because they they need to be thought of

23:53

a certain way. So they will turn on the one above them and above them. Nobody wants to be included in it. They're just

24:00

doing as they're told and government is a perfect kind of stage to do. So then I we did that and then it it was so after

24:07

six years their case was quickly falling apart and then we got access to information to show that they were lying

24:13

to the Department of Justice. Department of Justice really angry. That's why they sent a lawyer to the Kawichin Valley in

24:19

person, which they could have just dropped that over the phone because they were so upset that they had been lied to

24:24

for six years. And this never wasted everybody's time, all the taxpayers money. Abusive process. Absolutely.

24:29

And then we spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in this. All of our energies put into that, right? Which could have

24:35

fried you and turned you into a cynical person. And you then you if you try to go after the government then to

24:42

recuperate that you're just going after the taxpayer because everything the government's going to go they're going

24:47

to lose as a t. So then you think how can I do that too then? So you're thinking okay this whole game is set up

24:54

for them to win because even if you win sort of you try to recuperate what you

24:59

lost you can't unless you want to go after the taxpayers. You've just put a burden on not even on the organization that that did the

25:06

egregious actions. Absolutely. Yeah. So, that's that was our story. There's lots more in there, but I don't want to get too long. And I felt like we

25:14

made it the David versus Goliath kind of thing. We did it by being a weeble. Yeah. And then I learned that saying that I

25:20

love and I always say it. It's a quote I heard. I think her name was Michelle Walker said, "Those of you that think

25:27

you're too small to make a difference obviously have not been in bed with a mosquito." And I thought, if we just all

25:34

become mosquitoes, and that doesn't mean nasty. I'm talking about just be yourself and and buzz and then we all

25:39

will light up together. And I feel like you know what the beauty of that it's happening. But we we ended up having to go through

25:46

another even bigger one after cuz they the government doesn't like to lose even

25:52

though they know they're wrong. They don't want to lose because it makes it look like oh other people are going to try this. So they tried it again and I

25:59

I'll let you go with your story and then we can go with both of our even bigger. But I let me hear from you your side

26:04

what your you were 20 at the time and I know your dad's side. Yeah. So I had just come into the organization um and was taking over all

26:11

the video work which was quite serendipitous because there wasn't a huge demand for video work at that point

26:17

in time until all of a sudden all the health Canada stuff rolled out a month later. So I literally came in right as

26:25

this whole debacle began. And so I'm collab I'm collaborating with

26:32

everyone else on the team and I'm bringing in all of this news and stuff like that and and putting out videos.

26:38

We'd put at that time it was VHS often. Most people weren't rolling with DVD players yet.

26:43

Um and so anyways that's how I walked into this and right before the raid took

26:49

place which was just phenomenal timing. So this is now 2003

26:54

and we would end up getting charged. But the government would get a black eye over

27:01

this because what they did is and and this was access to information showed that Health Canada knew that they were

27:06

going to create a crisis even before they seized the product at the border preventing 3,000 Canadians from having

27:12

it. And so they set up a 1-800 crisis line which same type of thing basically

27:18

calling it a drug or not basically they're actually saying the scripting was um as soon as somebody said hey you

27:24

know I was taking trial products what what's up and they'd get kicked over to this crisis line. This is where you and your dad and I

27:30

talked cuz they set up crisis lines for both recovery and for empower plus. Okay. So, and because they knew that it

27:35

was going to really negatively impact Canadians lives and so they they were already going into damage control and

27:42

trying to redirect the populace thinking that they could avert the damages. And

27:47

so literally this is constituting criminal negligence at this point in time. Um and in many instances resulting

27:54

in death where we're talking depressive disorder and bipolar and things like that that David

27:59

he's not mentioning it but that that is basically what we're dealing with here which is obviously a crisis now and even

28:04

was back then. So this is big what was going on and and the irony is I mean the company's called True Hope and yet a lot

28:11

of people weren't referring to us as True Hope. were actually referring to us as last hope cuz they had already

28:16

exhausted everything available in the medical system and their game plan was I'm just going to take my life. They

28:23

stumble across us and say I'm willing to give one last try and then they would try it. They get off

28:28

the medications. They get their lives back and all of a sudden Health Canada comes and removes it. And they're saying I'm not going back to where I was. I was

28:35

going to kill myself. And so this was a sentiment of of quite a few of the people that we were working with because we were only at that point in time

28:42

working with people in the worst of situations, the most dire circumstances. Now that's not the case. We we supply

28:48

through health food stores alongside you and and so um they're they get over a

28:55

thousand phone calls and their scripting is you'll no longer have access to this

29:00

dangerous drug. Go back to your doctor and get on. Right. And right basically go back to the psych. Yeah. get back in

29:06

line, go back to status quo, right? We're looking out for your best interest. Like that's the irony of it. Same strategy and tactics.

29:12

Exactly. And so they finally after enough pressure and the media wasn't

29:19

entirely on their side at this point in time. CBC was. CBC always was. For sure. For same as us. Yeah. But that's a crown owned

29:25

organization. People don't realize that that they're just getting government propaganda. I think there's some do, but the ones that

29:31

that don't realize it because it used to be different than it is. Yeah. Right. Can I say for one sec? Hold your

29:37

thought. Yeah. When I was a kid in the 70s and you watched the news, they just reported

29:43

what was on. For anybody that's old enough to see that, they just reported what was happening around the world. They didn't put their opinions on it or

29:49

slants. It was just reading the news. In Afghanistan today, such and such happened and this happened. They didn't

29:55

act like they were on a certain side. They were just reciting what happened that day. It could be on the radio or on

30:01

TV. It's nothing like the news today. So when you think CBC was similar back

30:06

then, now it's a totally different CBC, but if it's such a slow process, the

30:12

people who used to think that CBC or Canada is this way, Canada and CBC are no longer this way at all. So sorry, go

30:18

ahead. Well, and to qualify that, so my job was to actually gather up any news that was

30:24

ever produced on us, good or bad. And what was interesting is over the, you

30:29

know, basically the first decade till 2010, we had dozens of news articles coming

30:35

out of Canada that were positive on us ex coming from basically every major

30:40

news corp other than CBC. CBC would go out of their way to try to find negative

30:48

news on us. And in fact, they had a correspondent down in Arizona do a story on us because some lady had an issue

30:53

coming off of her medications and she ended up in withdrawal from the medication and was blaming us for it even though it

31:01

was the medication. That's right. And she was considering suing us. Well, we've had people consider suing us, but

31:07

they've never had the grounds to do so. So, we've never actually ended up in court over a single situation over the

31:13

years, over three decades of doing this and helping literally about 100,000 people come off of psychiatric

31:18

medications and but help or CBC went out of their way to drum up this story out

31:24

of Arizona. They couldn't find one local and and so it was like they were existing in an entirely different realm

31:31

than Global News at that time, CTV News, a channel, all of that. They were all

31:37

reporting positive stuff on us. Every time a study would a new study would come out, they would report on it. And then something shifted at 2010 where it

31:44

all went dry. No longer would anybody report on us. Double blind study comes out. Nope. Nobody's reporting on it.

31:50

There was a shift in the media about 2010 where no longer could we draw from it. We just watch cap you watch media

31:56

capture. I know a lot of your audience is already familiar with this is that they're buying up all the media.

32:01

So the media is a conglomerate and it's not actually news anymore. And there's that case in New York where they tried

32:08

to go against for defamation character and they said you can't pursue with this case because it's not news it's

32:15

entertainment. Yeah. So people don't realize too like CNN and all these things they're considered entertainment now not news. So then it's

32:20

a different kind of story. So we're being entertained in a really negative way like the fall of Rome when they entertain you with death and destruction

32:27

in the gladi in the in the coliseum is the idea is it's just a different form of the coliseum and and the the the

32:35

uh the story is controlled to such an extent that it's almost unbelievable. But the beauty obviously is is that

32:42

mainstream media is falling away and then all these different podcasters all over the world and that are starting to

32:47

move out and tell different stories and then you think for yourself cuz this is what we're trying to do David and I is

32:53

express just tell our story and then you decide for yourself. Sorry, I I don't want to cut you off, but I want to

32:58

mention that before you start again is when you're talking about for us, it's most of these

33:04

serious anti-inflammatory uh and analesic narcotic products. That's why there was an issue that people not

33:11

having recovery might cause major problems for you. Some of the main classes would be the selective serotonin

33:16

reuptake inhibitors, SSRIs, which don't treat depression. They agree with that in meta analysis. they just numb you and

33:22

then they have the side effects of potential homicidal or suicidal behavior which is what they're actually giving

33:27

sometimes for. And then MAO inhibitors, things like that and then a lot of other drugs. But I'm saying these are huge

33:34

money makers in a a realm where money is everything

33:39

cuz most of them are public companies and that they have ties to government through family, friends and that in

33:46

public interest revolving door between Yeah. back and forth with people. So,

33:51

we're talking about things that are entrenched and captured with industry

33:56

and governance that this is massive amounts of money that they do not want to let go of and they have serious

34:03

control mechanism including intensely crazy things that you would never ever

34:09

believe because it seems like some type of spy movie. But those things all exist to try to protect that industry. And

34:15

everything's tied together as you go further. I know a lot of your guys again, everything's tied together. As you go further and further and further

34:21

down, you see that there's a a handful controlling a lot like Black Rockck, Vanguard, things like that. So, we're

34:26

just we're telling our stories first, but so sorry I cut you off for a second. No, that that's okay. So, and respecting the the intensity of what

34:33

what your product does. So, going back to 2003, finally, Health Canada had to to relent and they had to

34:40

let it back across the border. But this was after about a six, seven month stint, right? Like we this started in

34:46

the in the earlier spring and finally by late fall they were opening the borders

34:52

back up again to allow for that's what year did you say again? 2003 2003. And so unfortunately though um according

35:01

to Ron Legendz, he's the the head of the Alberta chapter of the Canadian Mental Health Association. He had been warning

35:07

Health Canada about what their actions were doing to those that were mentally ill because he personally knew of people

35:13

that were in crisis from Health Canada removing access to this. Well, we fast

35:18

forward 2 years cuz Health Canada would then charge us and they would we'd end

35:23

up in the courts with them. My father and David Hardy are charged criminally for supplying vitamins and minerals and

35:29

helping people get their lives back. This is this is the strangeness of Canada. They're charged criminally for

35:36

blessing people. Like that's so backwards. It's it's entirely perverse because it's only when you harm somebody

35:42

that you can in a It's our flip everything. Yeah. You're helping people, but you

35:49

saved lives and now you're going to be a criminal. Weird. And so we get into

35:55

court and Ron Legendz testifies that he personally attended two funerals of those who took their lives from

36:02

healthcare's actions. How many others across the whole country

36:07

like we we we have a database where people would phone us. We'd set up a file for them and we would literally

36:13

take them by the hand in essence like you know just and guide them through the process and be accessible to them by

36:20

phone. um you know, thick or thin, like we're we're there for them to help them get through the process of coming off

36:26

medications, custom tailoring protocols for them to come off. You know, maybe you're on a flexer. Well, you're going to be

36:31

counting beads. Pop the capsule open, take this many beads, it's how many how many you're taking today. And we're going to guide them through that process

36:37

so as to uh limit or eliminate the withdrawal effects so that they can get through this transition and get on the

36:43

other side in a really good place. And now you have Health Canada removing that

36:51

our ability to do that. And we have 3,000 people in Canada. Well, after

36:58

everything was said and done, we had 2,700 people. We don't know what happened to the other 300 people. We

37:04

know from Ron Legendz his personal experience, and he's only one person that he attended two funerals. How many

37:12

other funerals took place across Canada during that time that they couldn't gain

37:17

access to the Truel products? How many others? We don't know. We don't know if if a few of them said, "Well, they're a

37:23

rogue company. I don't want to actually associate with them." Um, and they were just fresh to to working with us. Um, we don't know how

37:30

many took their lives. We don't know how many end up back in the psych ward. U, we don't know. All we know is that we

37:35

had 10% of the the the Yeah. of of our

37:40

you know what when you were talking because it's so extreme if you look at it is that I was just thinking about

37:46

government you could call it when it starts to become completely corrupted which the in end times of any empire is

37:54

they're a business of control I think people don't realize the government's not for the people even the police

38:00

officers are struggling with this is they're not really for the people because they let criminals do anything they want and it's actually the victim

38:06

that gets the the brunt of it so the idea is the business of control. And then if you work for people who are

38:12

supposed leaders or micromanagers in reality at a in a business of control, you think if they're your bosses,

38:19

they're above you, it's almost like you have the superiority inferiority thing. Then you look at outside companies that

38:25

say it's from the heart, right? Which is why I resonate so much with you is it's not a business. It's about sharing.

38:32

And to me, sharing has to be about empowering others to find access to things that heal themselves.

38:39

And hopefully that's free. Even though we're we're both have companies out there, we want to share as much free

38:44

information. They don't want to share anything that way. They want to share information that leads you to believe that you should be in a state of fear,

38:50

divide and conquer so that they can control you. And to me, when you get in rel into relationships where you're

38:57

trying to understand or you're going to court with them or you're trying to mediate with them, that you're dealing

39:02

with two different mindsets completely. So, anything that we are saying that we

39:07

feel is just logical and of course and we love this, we want to help people to them, it's just in one ear, out the

39:13

other because they're waiting for you to shut up so they can tell you you need to do this, you need to do that and and it

39:19

so to me it's like it's insane because you can't have a rational conversation.

39:24

I feel that what what what we were being led to

39:30

and we can branch in any way we want. There's no holds barred here. I call I say that anything any health authority

39:38

in any country just change the word health to disease and then it's more accurate

39:44

uh is that we were being prepared kind of if you want to say with whatever

39:49

people believe to for the last five years there.

39:55

Oh yeah. to watch what happens when people give up all their power to authority figures and just listen and

40:02

believe that politics is an answer. Mhm. Instead of they're the problem,

40:09

they're dividing us and then go after people instead of going after the head of the snake. We go after and chop up

40:16

all this and fight with each other. That's the way that governments have always and empires have always

40:21

tried to take the power away from from the masses because there's only a few of them. And so I think it's not an

40:27

expression. This is what's gone on. You read Sunzu, the art of war. You read how to psychologically manipulate and degrade a society. You don't even need

40:33

to fire a bullet. And so then the last 5 years showed that what society can do

40:38

and how judgmental and everything people can be with no authority to do so because they don't even understand what they're talking about. They're just

40:44

trying to spew at you and be part of a herd. It's a herd mentality. Is that holy smokes? Okay. There there's the one

40:51

that we witnessed last 5 years was like coming to a head. We've already been going through this for 20 years, your family and our family.

40:56

Yep. But then seeing it, but then also it's like when you go through it then it doesn't traumatize you the same as it

41:03

would another person because yeah, they're corrupt. Yeah, that's Yeah, I figured that would happen. Yeah. Yeah,

41:09

we were headed there. That kind of idea. And now we're coming out into another part where we see you're able to talk to

41:15

everybody again of I always joke 20 years ago when I learned all this 25 years ago I couldn't talk to anybody

41:21

including my own family about what I learned because they don't want to hear it. It stresses people out to hear

41:26

something upsets their whole reality bubble. But now people want to hear about everything I joke around is you can talk about Bigfoot. Everybody nobody

41:33

cares everything. You can talk about anything. people, they know that something's wrong, even if they're not

41:38

ready to talk yet because they feel like they're getting attacked by the mob. It's that they know something's wrong.

41:44

And that's how you know everything is falling apart. Yeah, there's cracks in the in the

41:49

paradigms. And so are sharing stories like this helps people see, yeah, you can get through it, but we need to be working

41:54

towards something better. Keep Sorry, I keep cutting. I just wanted to reiterate that. I feel you, man.

42:01

Well, you know, I want to I want to just real quickly before jumping back into the whole, you know, the history that's

42:06

going to get us to where we are today, um, and the victory that came out of the the court case, which is a beautiful

42:12

thing, you know, talking about the last 5 years. And I don't want to be

42:18

unempathetic, but you know, I put out a lot of live streams during that time and actually

42:24

generated uh quite a alternative following in relation to lifestyle during that time.

42:30

Uh because I just come out of a commune. I'd lived in a commune for a year and a half, an off-grid commune. Got to

42:36

explore, got to observe, got to and it was really interesting because I had no skin in the game, me and my family. We

42:42

were just there. We were there to help. We were there to be helped. It was it was very a very synergistic relationship

42:48

that we had, but I had no emotional attachment to it. So, I was able to try to view it as objectively as possible, and it was

42:54

really cool. Yeah. Well, that came to an end March 15th, 2020. And I had already started

42:59

communicating the value of community. And so, I had a lot of people that were were following me and asking, you know,

43:04

my opinion on this or that, and how how do you go living off- grid? How do you get self-sustainable? How do you liberate yourself and detach from the

43:11

system? But I don't want to be empa unempathetic, but when when I look back

43:16

at the last five years, aside from, you know, some upsets in business, um, you

43:21

know, supply chain shortages and whatnot, the personal impact that COVID had on me

43:27

and my family, yeah, is I had to wait in line once at at Costco for 5 minutes

43:34

or I had to endure a couple, literally a couple, not even a handful of

43:40

harassments. for not wearing a mask. Yes. That that was that was the the total

43:47

impact that it had on me because for the most part like the way that my kids live

43:52

and stuff, they would have had no idea CO was even happening that it was a thing because it didn't impact them.

43:59

Well, no, that that's not entirely true. We went to go uh mountain biking one time and we got turned away. Um even

44:06

though we had bought the tickets and everything and we were about to hit up the chairlift and here I've got, you

44:12

know, my six-year-old. He's excited to go for the first time. He's going to go up the chairlift with the mountain bike and and then I've got my 8-year-old

44:17

beside him and they turned his way and said, "You're not wearing a mask. Are you kidding me? We're outside. We're

44:22

getting on a chairlift. We're not even getting within 6 ft of you. What are you talking about?" No, you can't go on unless you have a a mask. I can't go on

44:28

a chairlift up the side of a mountain without a mask. So that's about the the total impact that it had. And so there I

44:35

think there's something to to be said about coming out of the system becoming more self-reliant.

44:40

Yes. Then you know especially if if your whole family is cuz they also people in with if you're some an elderly person

44:46

that you're associated with or something sick and they're dying, you can't go see them in the hospital, right? Unless you have your shots or wear a

44:52

mask and do both things. And I thought that's how you know it once you go down rabbit holes that's how you know because

44:58

a mask that has no type of mask you are wearing has no protective elements

45:04

against any type of toxin that would be that small of caliber not even close it's like literally like a gnat even not

45:10

even mosquito a nat through a a chainlink fence right it's there's no protection and

45:16

if you don't keep changing them every couple hours this is something for the future to consider if you don't keep changing them every couple hours because

45:21

I was trained in these disciplines right in science and medicine is that you can start you start forming different

45:28

organisms in the on the mass that then you're reabsorbing and breathing in. So you're actually making yourself sicker

45:35

which then heightens your potential to spread bacteria and fungus and that not we're talking about virus spread those

45:41

to other people and then also you have to fit those around and even when

45:46

doctors wear them they're not to prevent you're not supposed to operate or things like that if you have some type of toxin virus whatever they want to talk about

45:54

whatever people believe in is that they don't prevent that. They're not supposed to actually do operations when you're sick. It's to prevent drip onto your

46:00

patient. Yes. and and the spread of of of larger microbes, bacteria and fungus, it has no barrier. So then when they're

46:07

doing that and making you wear it all around, including outside, not allowed to go in parks and everything. I think everybody's waking up to the fact that

46:13

didn't make sense because if you're say if if you want to the old way of doing things prior to 2020, was totally

46:19

opposite of this. You get called a conspiracy theorist now for talking about the same thing is that the only

46:24

real way to prevent if there's some type of toxin or pathogen exposure Mhm. The only real way that you're going

46:31

to be able to deal with that is through exposure to fresh air and decrease in the concentration load. That's just

46:37

common sense. That's the way it's always been in medicine. That means opening up all windows, huge amounts of ventilation

46:43

and filtration of the air, right? Like the the treatment of CRO, right? Like that's that's still one of

46:48

the most effective ways to help with CRO is get some fresh air, right? And you let the healthy people keep going outside and getting fresh air

46:54

cuz that's what keeps you healthy and sunlight and everything else. So everything they did back then was nothing to do with whatever exposure

47:01

they thought you were having. It was everything to do with some type of social engineering program. It you don't have to call it conspiracy. It just was.

47:06

The military admitted that in Canada that they were doing that experiments for social engineering. So then why are

47:12

they doing that is that everything we've been dealing with all these years kind of led us to see yeah we know why

47:18

they're doing it because they are trying to control everything that you do in every certain way. before they could do

47:23

it and just felt everything's fine because you had sort of choice and there wasn't all this computer gadgets, everything's fine. As time went on and

47:29

on and on, you start to realize it. It's in your face and then social media and everything, people started spreading stuff. Woo, this is weird. And then you

47:37

think anybody that thinks outside this box, which the inside the box

47:43

is you're actually not thinking. And then you think if I get into this, sorry, I segue

47:48

again. I want to get back to your story. One thing, one thing I want to talk about here is that I think ties into your story and our story is that people

47:57

think why did all these people that are supposed to be so smart and intellectuals why do they keep falling?

48:02

Why do they keep supporting it? Why don't they believe if they don't believe government do that then I shouldn't believe it. Why? And they well because

48:09

the education system is completely tied to everything. The education system we did an episode on this on education.

48:15

Ed education derives from the root educ or educ in Latin which means to draw out

48:21

draw forth. It doesn't mean to put facts in. So they come education today is not actually education. It's indoctrination

48:27

because you're just filling people full of facts. And then someone gets really smart at memorizing and utilizing the facts that

48:33

are inside the box that they've created. And so yeah, anything that's outside that box, which our companies and and

48:39

our thinking styles represent, so do all the ancient ways of thinking, by the way. And the deeper parts of the

48:44

religious tradition and science can't they go against the box. The box is more like a populist way of thinking in

48:51

science, religion, everything else. The superficial waves. We're talking about deeper ocean concepts and ideas and

48:58

living is a threat. And so before it was you couldn't talk about it. Now we can talk about it and

49:03

we're talking about it. No holds barred. And sorry, I just wanted to preface with that because I think we're in super

49:09

exciting times and they think why would you share this kind of thing? put put you in a target. But no, I feel like we

49:15

just need to help people to to light them up. Everybody that's going through anything to see that no, we're not

49:21

reinventing wheel. We're going back to ancient ways and it's all coming back and you can't stop it. Yeah. And and we can't ever fear having

49:26

a tug on our back because the reality of of the situation is in relation to the

49:32

world that we exist is that when a man sets out to do something good and to do so in a profound way to bless humanity.

49:40

Yeah. So keep you're at 2003. I cut him off again. Sorry. So you know the point you will get

49:47

pummeled and you better be prepared for the pummeling. And oftent times it's it's

49:53

not the strength that'll carry you through. It's the persistence. Yes. And the tenacity,

49:58

right? Exactly. Just you just keep on going. Stay the course.

50:04

Keep on keeping on. And and and you will get beat down and you'll question your existence sometimes. Uh but you just get up and

50:10

you keep on moving. You you keep the vision and you just move forward and it's amazing. I mean you can overcome anything. You will be carried through

50:17

it. But you will be tried and you will be you will be beat down and you will become stronger because of it. And so

50:24

we've been through these journeys and and so I'll continue on so that we can get to get to, you know, closer to where we are

50:30

today cuz I know that you've gone through some really cool scenarios. Yeah, you go first.

50:35

So the court victory happens and my dad, you know, actually attempted to hold the government to account and then he sued

50:43

the um Health Canada for basically killing Canadians. He sued him.

50:48

Yeah. And so this was really a battle on behalf of Canadian populace. And after a number of years, uh it was a

50:56

good four or five years, um we would lose that. We'd be told that we have no

51:02

standing, which is interesting because we had legal standing. It harmed us. It harmed the company. It harmed Canadians

51:09

with what Health Canada's actions did. And Health Canada knew it. And so we had

51:14

legal standing. And yet they shut us down. And then they awarded Health

51:20

Canada costs. So now, not only did we lose in going against them, trying to

51:27

hold them to account, but then we had to pay a portion of their legal fees. So insult to injury, another $150,000,

51:35

right? So absolutely corrupt. So now we're 10 years of dealing with Health Canada and we think that we're out of,

51:42

you know, out of the forest on it. Everything's good, right? We're going to continue on business as normal. At this point in time, we now have NPN numbers,

51:50

right? So they've licensed our products. We're supplying them to people across Canada through health food stores

51:56

legally, right? Same formula, same product, same research, same studies that cause them to try to come in and

52:02

shut it down and kill Canadians in the first place. So then I guess to to fast forward is they

52:10

don't let things go so easily like you were alluding to earlier on. And

52:15

we have this issue where, you know, at this point in time, I've got a 4-year-old son and a 1 and a

52:21

halfyear-old son. And so, and many people will recognize this. Many people still recognize when I say my son is

52:26

Ezekiel, they'll be like, "Wait a minute, that's you." A big story. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they they exploited it. It

52:32

was phen and not just Canadawide. It was international. Yeah, I know. It was just phenomenal. The the agenda

52:38

that they were driving and it's interesting because we hired Sean Buckley as a lawyer. we had to and I'll

52:44

get into the details as to how we got there, but he just shook his head and said, you know, if if the Canadian government came and said, "This is what

52:51

we're looking to do for an agenda. Who should we not target?" He says, "You

52:58

guys would be on the top five list because of the fact that, you know, I've seen your tactics. I know how your dad

53:03

operates." Yeah. Right. Um he goes almost kamicazi, right? The

53:09

to rewind just digress for a brief brief moment. the court case in 2005 with

53:15

Health Canada that wasn't supposed to happen. They were going to drop the charges. And when my dad found out about it, he actually got all of us boys to

53:21

sit around a conference room table with the the phone in the center there and and he starts phoning these Health

53:27

Canada agents personally and saying, "Hey, we understand you're about to drop the charges and I just want to say how good of news that is because now I'm

53:34

going to sue you personally and we're going to see you in court right away." This is their family tradition.

53:40

this. So, this is a pinnacle mo moment right now. He's doing this unbeknownst

53:45

to David Hardy, his business partner, because David would have lost it. He's like, "What? No, half the charges

53:51

dropped, right? This is good news." No, it wasn't good news. We'd already racked up a bill. My dad wanted his day in court. And so, he then

53:58

taunted them and sure enough, they kept the charges going. And sure enough, we end up with a victory. and not just a

54:04

victory, it also helped. It set precedent in Canada for the whole natural health community.

54:10

And so it was a really beautiful thing and my dad was inspired to move forward with it. And so he wasn't going to let

54:15

it go. So that's why he started taunting them saying, "I'm going to see you in court one way or the other." So they decided to roll the dice. So

54:23

now Sean Buckley has experience with that. He's saying, "I'm not sure why they're targeting you with this. This just doesn't make sense. Like you guys

54:28

of all people because I know you're your guys' tactics." So what happened was in 2012 my son ended up sick with the group

54:37

and it went away and then over the next week he resumed activities. My at this

54:42

point in time like we're we're homeschoolers but there were some really good resources this um this uh preschool

54:49

parent uh parent preschool where um my four-year-old son would go there, my

54:54

wife would take the one and a half year olds while they'd play. And during that time there was some really great

55:00

resources where uh the mothers would be empowered with this information on how to become better parents and my wife

55:06

just loved loved the whole concept. So she was doing that and so he goes back to that and with her and and then church

55:13

is resumed right but he's got this up and down up and down. We're like this is interesting. It almost looks like he's

55:18

fighting off the flu but he's not like into the flu. Well, he ends up in crisis

55:24

one night and it and it wasn't like this degradation and the media attempted to make it look like this.

55:29

It was quick. It was it was well, he actually went symptom free for the better part of probably 5 hoursish and he went down for

55:36

a nap. And at this point in time, I'm now left alone with him because my wife's like reassured that he's going to

55:42

be up and running the next day. So, she went to this activity that she wasn't going to go to, but she went to this church activity that night and so I'm

55:49

I'm hanging out with him and he wakes up from his nap and there's something

55:54

curious happening and his breathing patterns changing but yet he seems he seems tired still want you know I put

56:00

him back down for the nap but I'm curious about this but I'm like nothing like the coupe at you know a week and a half before. So,

56:08

um, she comes home from her activity and, uh, I fill her in on what's going

56:13

on and he goes into crisis rapidly before we had the opportunity to really assess as to what's going on. Should we

56:19

take him to the doctor, he stops breathing and, you know, 911 calls happen and stuff like that. Well, he starts breathing again. We drove him to

56:25

the hospital cuz we're out in the middle of nowhere, right? Kind of like where we are now, right? Ambulance probably isn't going to find

56:31

our place so easy, right? So, we start driving to the hospital and then he stops breathing again.

56:36

Well, uh, long story short, he ends up on life support for 5 days in Alberta Children's Hospital and then they pull

56:42

him off life support and he passes away.

56:48

We're curious as parents wondering what happened. Now, at this point in time, we've been targeted already.

56:53

Yeah. um RCMP comes in as well as Calgary City Police and all of a sudden

56:59

the emergency room or the the pediatric intensive care unit there has uh six

57:04

police officers, armed officers there um a day after we got in there with Ezekiel

57:10

and I'm thinking I'm leaving in cuffs and I'm not sure why, but they're coming after me. Now, I'd already been involved

57:15

in some other stuff personally in relation to sovereignty movements and stuff like that. I'd won a court case

57:21

actually surrounding license and registration. I I right and not having them. I won a court case on that. So I

57:28

was flagged as an individual. Um actually they call the sovereign citizen which is oxymoronic.

57:34

You can't be sovereign and a citizen at the same time. So anyways, property taxes tell you that income tax,

57:39

right? So so what happens is um uh we get interviewed by the RCMP after they

57:46

figured out whose jurisdiction it was. uh RCMP takes over. Calgary city police walk away and um we ended up with a good

57:54

detective. Uh but you know, we're there till 4 in the morning being interviewed

57:59

after not having slept for like 48 hours because of the whole debacle of taking

58:04

my son in and then us getting there and and you're not sleeping. You're you know, your son's on his deathbed and

58:09

you're wondering what happened. So that that takes place. We're being targeted,

58:15

but then we think it's all over. And it was all over. Actually, if you follow the the paper trail, it was over because

58:21

that detective said nothing's wrong here. No need for charges. Yeah. Right. So, we order the autopsy report cuz

58:27

we're wondering how did our son die. Like none of this is making sense. And and they're already starting to

58:33

establish this narrative around bacterial menitis, but they haven't qualified it through a single test. And

58:38

it's easy to Yes, it is easy to verify. So, they've got no verification, but they're saying it and they're using it.

58:45

They're repeating it. That's how you know you're in trouble when when they're about to pounce, right? Because you can see them doing it.

58:51

Yeah. They're generating a narrative without any evidence to support the narrative. Yeah. So, we're wondering how do they pass?

58:56

So, we order the autopsy report. This happens in March, mid-March of

59:02

2012. By the end of November 2012, we finally get an autopsy report, and I get a phone call from the medical examiner's

59:08

office, not from the medical examiner himself, but one of the assistants. and he and he says, "Hey, your autopsy

59:14

report is on its way, right?" Um, and you know, just want to let you know that uh it was vaccine preventable, his

59:21

death. Who says that to you? I said, "Oh, interesting." I said, "Okay." I said, "Uh, what vaccine would

59:26

have prevented his death?" Right. Just want to dig in a little bit. He says, "Oh, actually, I I don't know that. You know, I'd have to I'd have to talk to

59:31

the medical examiner, but I just, you know, want to relay that information." I'm thinking, "That's that's odd. Thank you. Appreciate it. Like, I maybe you're

59:38

genuinely trying to help me here, but probably not." And so I get the autopsy

59:44

report and sure enough the first paragraph that uh basically categorizes

59:49

every like it's um it's the overview right before getting into all the the fine details

59:55

starts off with you know 18-month-old previously healthy non-immunized. Okay, so that's your first thing right there.

1:00:01

But then even within that paragraph, it mentions vaccines twice and how um they

1:00:08

had to use non-clinical research methodologies to determine the cause of

1:00:14

death. So that when I read that I thought, well, that's interesting. Like that's that's some that's a lot of jargon. We'll figure out how to get what we

1:00:20

want. Well, that that's it rose a flag right off the bat. like non-clinical research methodologies

1:00:27

to determine that it was homophus influenza and that the hib vaccine homophus influenza B vaccine would have

1:00:34

prevented it. Okay. Well, that's interesting. Um well, I read it now. This is, you know, late

1:00:41

November, early December of 2012. And when I read it, I I'm looking at it and saying, I've never read an autopsy

1:00:47

report before. But in reading this, I can't help but think

1:00:53

that with this information that they are they're stretching. They're they're

1:00:58

trying to get as much vaccine info into the autopsy report as possible, but yet

1:01:04

they're not creating a solid connection. I can't help but think that they're going to charge us and it's going to be

1:01:10

a vac. The part that hits me that I know the psychological manipulation, everything

1:01:15

is you're this is intense trauma. you're going through right now, just lost your son,

1:01:21

intense trauma, and then they're hitting you basically at the same time when you're discombobulated, which is

1:01:27

exactly what the STR the tactic would be. And the timing is perfect, by the way. Okay, so they could have charged us way

1:01:33

earlier, but it takes time to falsify autopsy reports. I'm just going to say that, right? And and this is not the

1:01:39

first time I've stated that. I've stated it probably about a hundred times on probably a hundred different interviews and podcasts across, you know, the world

1:01:45

that that autopsy report was falsified and we were actually hoping at some point in time they would try to sue us

1:01:51

for me making that statement. Exactly. But they've never taken the bait. Why? Because they know that it'll

1:01:56

lead them into like the Epstein files. Sure. Exact. Exactly. Right. It's funny, but everybody's waken up to the fact

1:02:01

that criminals, these big time criminals, they never get exposed, but they go after you for for false things

1:02:07

to keep them keep you off off track. And I feel like they they did that to you. It was so it was horrific to watch, by

1:02:13

the way, as a friend, cuz I've always been friends with you guys. It's just that was so hard to to watch. I'm so

1:02:20

glad that you came to Salt Spring uh with Klette. Uh I just can't imagine

1:02:25

going through the thing in itself and then them trying to come after you. like it just it's anim animalistic type of

1:02:32

behavior that they that they uh participate in over and over and over again. I'd go beyond I'd go beyond animalistic

1:02:39

because anim animalistic often times is is run by instincts. This was actually malicious pure malicious like it's

1:02:45

taking it a step further where they had an intent to try to destroy and we saw that replete throughout the the whole of it. Uh many of the court

1:02:52

proceedings were scheduled on the anniversary dates of Ezekiel's passing or uh three years in a row on my

1:02:58

birthday. I don't care. I don't I don't celebrate my birthday so what do I care? But you could see the tactics or they

1:03:03

rendered a decision on the due date and they knew when the due date was because at this point in time we're having to we'd been wrongfully convicted at one

1:03:10

point and we had to undo all that. Um, but they they even uh and so you're checking with a pearl officer and so

1:03:16

they know when the due date is of of Colette with my last child, my daughter, and they literally rendered a decision

1:03:22

that took 8 months. They rendered it on the due date of my daughter and I'm

1:03:28

supposed to go back to jail at that point in time. And I said, I'm not going back to jail. I'll get to that in a bit.

1:03:33

But so what ends up happening um is they end up eventually charging

1:03:39

us. Now, I thought I was being paranoid at first or after a few weeks where I'm like, "Oh, good. No, they they're not charging us. This is December 2012. I'm

1:03:47

on edge during that time." And December goes by and then January goes by. I'm like, "Okay, good." It's just being

1:03:54

paranoid, right? That gut feeling and the, you know, the impression that they're going to charge us over a vaccine thing.

1:04:00

Okay, good. Well, February 12th rolls around and RCMP phones

1:04:06

and they want to meet and actually I think they phone me at first probably about February 9th and they wouldn't get

1:04:12

a hold of me till February 12th cuz I'm like I want nothing to do with you. I remember you guys. I remember you keeping us up till 4 in the morning

1:04:18

while my son's on his deathbed and we're being told that he can go into cardiac arrest at any given time and and here you're keeping us up till 4 in the

1:04:24

morning. Want nothing to do with you guys. Right. And so anyways, uh they got a hold of me and they said, "Uh, the

1:04:30

crown has some recommendations." I said, "Okay, well, can you tell me those over the phone?" And and they're like, "No,

1:04:35

come in tomorrow." I said, "Okay." Well, at this point in time, um we'd had uh um

1:04:43

little Ephraim about 8 months before, so he's still young. He comes in with Colette. We sit down in this

1:04:48

interrogation room and the cop is just gloating because he's been told that I'm

1:04:53

this sovereign individual and there's no way he's going to be able to charge me not not realizing no I'm a pretty decent

1:04:58

guy. I'm a cooperative. So I walk in there and he's gloating and he says you've been charged with and he he

1:05:04

serves me with the papers failing to provide necessaries of life and I'm like oh I've never really looked into that

1:05:10

one but I have a criminal code. I've read it right from my past experiences. I'm like, if I recall properly, that's

1:05:17

not a light one. So, sure enough, I get home and I look it up and up to five years in jail. I'm thinking, "Oh boy,

1:05:23

this is bad. This is bad." Colette's crying on the couch. Uh little, if you want to even call it a couch. I'm sitting at the table as he's, you know,

1:05:30

serving us the papers. We're like, "What does this even mean? What does this mean for our family? What does this mean for our kids? What like right right at this

1:05:37

point in time, we now have a 5-year-old and we have one who's not even a year old."

1:05:43

And so anyways, sure enough, they charge us at that time, but they did it methodically. They had to wait a certain

1:05:50

period of time because by the time that we'd get our disclosure and realize there's deficiencies in the disclosure,

1:05:55

time lapses had already occurred because they only had to keep certain files for 13 months. And by the time we got our

1:06:01

disclosure, it had been 14 months, right? So it was a perfect thing that

1:06:07

they could scrap all of these all of the interactions between the police officers over the radio that's being documented.

1:06:13

All of that was gone, scrubbed. So we we had no longer access to understanding the setup that took place to us going

1:06:19

through this whole debacle. But then what would end up happening is we would discover through the whole process

1:06:26

um that one it was a vaccine trial. Now Sean Buckley, we hired him, right? Yeah.

1:06:31

And um and we did so initially because we knew that his stance on natural

1:06:37

health and freedoms because a lot of like we went and sat down with certain lawyers and one of them even grilled me

1:06:42

and said what if they get you on stand and they ask you you know if there was a polio outbreak would you get your

1:06:49

children vaccinated. He says you have to be prepared for that. And I said okay. I said well the simple answer is no. Right

1:06:55

based on what I know it's it's a it's an absolute no. And he says, "Well," and you could tell the disdain that he had.

1:07:01

And I'm like, "We're not getting that guy as a lawyer. He's not going to represent us. He's going to represent his ideologies, right?" So, what ended

1:07:08

up taking place, we got Sean Buckley, and I brought that up with Sean. I said, "Hey, look, this is going to be a vaccine trial." He says, "It can't be.

1:07:14

There's no president in Canada." And I'm thinking to myself, "Okay, I'll leave it at that." But I'm like, "Well, how do

1:07:20

you get a president in Canada?" Yeah. Well, turns out we were going to be the president.

1:07:25

So, now you fast forward. This is this is end of 2013. We get into the preliminary hearing in 2014 and the

1:07:32

crown prosecutor ironically uh he would become a judge

1:07:38

and he's the judge that just um ruled on the whole coups you know the coups for

1:07:44

well the two of them that were just sentenced he's he's the judge that ran that case right so it's kind of

1:07:49

interesting that they have certain players to do these so does the media they pick certain media officials that cover all the

1:07:54

stories exactly yeah did that so he at at this point in time is still a crown prosecutor, David Lebrrens, and

1:08:01

he he keeps on uh in the preliminary hearing drawing all this vaccine

1:08:06

information out of every doctor and every doctor is all of a sudden a vaccine expert. Now, they're not trained in that at all.

1:08:11

Nope. But yet, they're all in the veterinary industry, by the way, the vaccine stuff is mostly veterinary.

1:08:17

Oh, really? Yeah. So, you have these a lot of it's veterinary. You have these GPS, you have these pediatric intensivists, they're

1:08:23

all just spewing this stuff as if they've been coached and we know they were coached. And so finally Sean Buckley stands up

1:08:30

and says, you know, I wasn't aware that vaccines were going to be a topic during this trial. Well, crown prosecutor David Lebrren

1:08:36

pipes back and says, actually, it's going to be, you know, a big part of this trial. So then they go and they discuss it over lunch. And Sean Buckley

1:08:43

comes back and says, "What they're looking to do is set a precedent with this case that if you as a parent choose

1:08:49

not to vaccinate your children and any harm, doesn't even have to be death, but any harm befalls them that they deem to

1:08:56

be vaccinereventable, you are criminally liable." Boom. Big deal, right? Because it up up

1:09:03

to that point, we're being protected. I mean public health agency of of Canada came out and made this statement back in

1:09:10

the '90s saying we can't mandate vaccines because our rights are protected or the Canadian's rights are

1:09:15

protected through the constitution. Right? So in that sense we actually had a stronger constitution than the US did

1:09:22

in relation to those types of matters of public health. And so now they're not

1:09:27

they're looking at not mandating it that way but mandating it through fear compulsory that now

1:09:34

you're public judging because that's what they do right. Exactly. So and yes and it worked.

1:09:39

Yeah. It worked. So now we fast forward to 2016 where it blows up in the international media and I've got people

1:09:46

reaching out to me saying hey I haven't vaccinated my children. What would you recommend that I do? Right? Because I don't want to end up in

1:09:52

the situation you are. Yeah. And and my advice was always the same. Hold to your guns. Stick to them. Do not

1:10:00

compromise, right? Don't allow our situation to influence you, right? This is right. Like we're going to see how

1:10:06

this all works out in the end, but this that's the agenda is let's crucify

1:10:11

these parents, right, on the altar of vaccines. Really? So you don't you don't

1:10:18

know this about me that I know of but uh so when we had we have three kids and way back in the day when because I had

1:10:25

my background in medicine and science and I was looking at vaccines is an issue already. You study verology and

1:10:30

immunology and microbiology and you think viruses are always a weird thing and anyway you get into it and then you

1:10:37

look how modern medicine which is falling right now this is what's happening so you can talk about it is how they basically gained a foothold.

1:10:44

One of the big ones was with vaccination and this is what's coming big right now again to try because all the patents are

1:10:50

being lost in a lot of the other medications so there's no money in these things so put all the money in this vaccines or the mRNA tech anyway you

1:10:57

look at it and you know this but you look at the graphs so they took all the credit for the elimination all these

1:11:02

different conditions you know that you think of dip there patasus tetanus measles lumps all that kind of thing

1:11:08

smallox but then you look at the graphs that show from early 1900s

1:11:14

as these conditions were already on going down. Like for instance, if the graph looks like this, it's up here say

1:11:20

so. So here's the bottom and it's it's starting to fall already quite a bit and

1:11:25

then it's starting to rapidly drop which that's what typically happens a lot of conditions. Then when it's down here

1:11:31

right near the the line and it's moving across and almost out that's vaccines or

1:11:38

after it's completely gone then they're taking credit. But really what was happening was there was changes in

1:11:44

hygiene hygiene and nutrition and all these different advancements in in basically the terrain theory. How to

1:11:49

keep yourself healthy and how to clean up your environment around you simply no

1:11:54

poop on the street stuff like that. Anyway, this was all happening rapidly and it was changing the whole world. But

1:12:00

then they took credit for that. So when you say that I don't want our kids to vaccinate, don't need to because we take

1:12:06

care of ourselves in a different way, especially if you're in the health industry or we practice ancient methods, simple methods to stay healthy and

1:12:13

clean, is that we we just don't we choose not to do that. We're not saying that anybody else has to follow suit

1:12:18

with us or anything, nothing. This is the whole thing about what happened the last 5 years. If you make a choice because you actually know quite a bit

1:12:25

about this and in the ancient ways the new is we're not we're not deficient in pharmaceuticals. We've talked about

1:12:32

we're not deficient in pharmaceuticals. We're deficient in nourishment which you talk a lot about with empire plus like

1:12:37

that and that affects us mentally, physically, everything else. But then when you say when someone finds out you

1:12:42

know I don't want to do that they so heavily and they're so indoctrinated in believing that vaccines actually did get

1:12:49

rid of those conditions. Y and the logic holds it everything. But when you actually put it to the test,

1:12:55

which is making a lot of people really mad, frustrated because there's a lot of money involved especially and they've

1:13:01

been indoctrinated in his thinking. What's happening in the states, I'm not I'm not politically motivated at all. I

1:13:06

think politics is all bunk. But down the states with Robert Kennedy, what he's establishing right now in a

1:13:13

slow process is number one, get rid of the mercury out of all the vaccines. People didn't know that accumulates in

1:13:18

your body. it's neurotox and all this, you know, all the stuff that it causes. That's why the mad hatter in in Alice in Wonderland and and dentist suffering

1:13:25

from depression, suicidal thoughts was, you know, off Mercury. Anyway, we get there. Then he's moving towards for the

1:13:32

first time ever, vaccines will now have to undergo proper trials. What does that mean? That you're

1:13:38

actually going against a true placebo, not an vaccinated group. Hasn't happened once. It's never happened. And people don't

1:13:43

realize this. It's never happened. So, what he's saying is that has to happen. Now, the the part that's making people

1:13:48

mad. He's going to destroy the next pandemic is going to kill every No, that's not what's happening. He's saying, "Show me the safety and efficacy

1:13:55

data cuz you just slam that down our throat for the last 5 years. It's safe and effective. Say there's never been

1:14:00

safety and efficacy data done on traditional vaccines the way that we think at all." So if you say you have to

1:14:07

do it, they're scared out of their wits because they know they're not going to pass safety. They're not going to pass

1:14:13

efficacy. Then when you start to correlate all of the data, which is significant between unvaccinated versus

1:14:20

vaccinated kids, followed over 20 to 30 years spans, which they've done those research, they hold them because they

1:14:26

don't want to release it because they think it'll cause vaccine hesitency. No, they don't. They think it'll cause massive lawsuits because when you see

1:14:33

it, the increases in diseases across the board with uh autoimmunity, cancers,

1:14:39

asthma, skin conditions, all these things, digestive, all that stuff. We're not talking little changes. We're

1:14:46

talking like hundreds to thousands of percent difference, neurological deficits, everything. All the stuff that

1:14:52

you see that's happening right now. And he gives a a primary figure he gives that I love. He says that in the day of

1:14:59

JFK, his uncle and his dad RFK senior as when they were in in power in the states

1:15:06

that they had 11% of people had chronic illness that that was documented 11%. Today

1:15:13

right now it's 76.4% of Americans having a chronic disease state. Why is that?

1:15:19

Then he correlates it with when did that big uptick happen? It happened in the late ' 80s when they started to increase

1:15:25

the vacc. So whatever you think about vaccines, if you just do science and correlate, there's not much else that

1:15:32

you can see but what happened in a major way and you can say it's not causal, it's it's condition or it's coincidence.

1:15:38

No, it's not. It's right in our faces and you could see the data. Why would you take something that they said got

1:15:45

rid of something a if afterwards you saw the graphs they referred to, it was already gone? Why would you wouldn't say

1:15:51

that that was the thing that got rid of it? And then why would you need to take it? And again, we're not deficients in pharmaceuticals, but the people that

1:15:58

make money off those things are deficient if you don't buy into that paradigm. Absolutely. But this is

1:16:03

falling apart right now. So, you got caught in this whole I think again when you said earlier, why do you get

1:16:10

why do they go after you? They go after you if something's effective. Why do they also go after you if you're saying

1:16:16

something that's happening that's scaring the crap out of them? Already people are challenging not just the whole CO shenanigans. They're

1:16:23

challenging the entire vaccine paradigm. Yeah. And you and that was already

1:16:28

happening before co it's been happening for a long time because people are doing the research and looking at and RFK was

1:16:34

a big part of it when he was he was fulfilling those lawsuits for those people that brought forth all that

1:16:39

evidence to show all the harm that was being done. He didn't even know anything about it. He got into it out of his

1:16:45

heart. It became a heart thing for him. Just like Sean Buckley, it's the heart thing for him. He's not making tons of money, believe me. Right. is that then

1:16:52

you're looking at something and saying, "Okay, I see the evidence." If you see the evidence, that's more scientific. If

1:17:00

you look at evidence and ignore it and convince the populace that anybody that's looking at this evidence is a

1:17:06

conspiracy theorist and everything like that, then we're talking about scientism. So, right now, we're looking

1:17:12

at most of what we look at as say religion and science are isms. Exactly. They're not the actual truth of

1:17:18

any science as a matter of fact and the religions could all be grouped together

1:17:23

under a a a wanting and a desire to understand and awareness, right? A cientia, desire to know. And so the

1:17:29

under underlying principle, if you desire to know, you will then collaborate with everyone to come to a

1:17:35

higher truth, right? Like synthesism in the Socratic dialogues. What what's happened now is you got scientism and

1:17:41

religious isisms or whatever you want to is that they're all the superficial waves. We think that's what they are.

1:17:48

Yep. Because we don't understand their depths and at their depths they all intertwine. They're just a desire for knowledge and

1:17:54

to live a good life and to understand deep principles of reality. In this we're fighting over all the waves and

1:18:00

the people that don't actually do the work or live and we all know that you you see people that are in a religion or

1:18:06

in science you think they should think why don't they think this way? They're a part of that. Yeah. Cuz they don't actually live it.

1:18:11

No. No. It's just a conceptual thing they fling around in their head. And they were going after you cuz you were representing a strong case and a strong

1:18:19

challenge to a paradigm that they are already struggling with that now they're trying to set a precedent. This is not

1:18:25

Absolutely. No. Absolutely. You know, it's amazing the what what lengths people will go to to uphold their

1:18:31

paradigms that are founded upon faulty dogmas. Right. It's crazy.

1:18:37

It is crazy. And it's religious in nature in that sense. Like when when I when I talk about religion, I look at the the blinders on religion.

1:18:42

More like a cult. A cult-like behavior. Exactly. And you see that with with uh you know those that are saying, "Oh,

1:18:48

you're a science snare." Oh, am I a science denier or am I a denier of of your unfounded dogmas? Totally

1:18:54

right. I'm reading the science. I'm looking at it. Are you or are you just adopting the opinion of someone else as

1:19:00

they indoctrinate you with something and tell you this is what you should believe? Totally. Right. That's not science. No. And so that's what we'd come up

1:19:06

against because we now know that we're in a vaccine trial. We know that they're looking to set a precedent that's going

1:19:12

to hold parents criminally liable in Canada if they don't vaccinate their children. And so

1:19:18

we do what we think we should do and we go and hire two experts, Dr. Tony Bark and Dr. Tatana Obanich. And they

1:19:24

generate some reports, some expert reports uh in preparation for the 2016 trial. And the reports are scathing

1:19:32

going right from the VES database, right? The VA the vaccine adverse um

1:19:38

Yep. Right. That's government documentation which is highly under reportported by the way, but there's still enough in there.

1:19:44

They used that co and then tried to deny everything. It's the only kind of mechanism we have to judge if something's causing harm out there,

1:19:49

right? And it's it's the government process and they tried to make it look like it's nothing. And it's severely under reportported like you said.

1:19:55

Yeah. And so now they they have all of this reporting on the HIV, the HIV vaccine, homophus influenza type B

1:20:02

vaccine, which shows that one, people are dying from it. So it's like, wait a minute. Okay, you want me to get my

1:20:08

child this saying that it could have potentially prevented his death, but yet it could have caused his death. That's

1:20:14

interesting. And you're going to hold me criminally liable? So first of all, it's not safe. That that was the first thing that was established. And then the

1:20:20

second thing was is that there's all these reports of children getting that vaccine. and then ending up with

1:20:26

homophus influenza and some of them even dying from homophus influenza. So there

1:20:32

goes the effectiveness. So neither safe, neither effective. So we have expert reports coming from authenticated

1:20:39

government reporting on this. As soon as it's it's put forward to the crown, that

1:20:44

part of the trail disappears. So you you you said something too that's interesting. If as you're following all

1:20:50

this this talk because we're talking about vaccines which obviously a really hot topic and and highly debatable is if

1:20:55

you look back to the 60s and 70s reporting on vaccines like swine flu and things like that and the harm that was caused and when

1:21:01

they would stop them and then realize what just happened in the last 5 years

1:21:06

is if that was covered before even a few deaths before were covered in the news

1:21:12

but when the news media was captured we're talking about horrific amounts of death and destruction disease that are

1:21:18

caused in the last 5 years that they won't even talk about it at all. That's how you know there's capture. But before they had it like 60 minutes and all

1:21:24

those different things, talked about it and they challenged the people really hard. Even Fouchy and those guys were ch

1:21:29

anyway. Now they don't do any of that. They promote. So there's a promotion of criminals and criminality and that's how

1:21:35

you know we're in the stage of fall which is exciting to me because it's kind of exciting. I like the idea of that but it means that it's the last

1:21:41

stages. The problem is it's painful. So keep going. Anyways, you're you experienced the pain. That's insane. So, we're we're getting pre prepped for

1:21:48

trial proper 2016. So, it's now um about almost four years after the death of

1:21:53

Ezekiel, right? So, we're starting off like the first week of March. The whole thing again. We're Yeah. And and and once again, that

1:21:59

trial is is over the the duration of his passing, right? Is what we're scheduled

1:22:06

for. Interesting. So, um we're thinking, okay, you're dropping the vaccine

1:22:12

portion of the trial. Well, why are you what are you moving forward with then? Because this is going to look really bad

1:22:17

because what had already come out in 2014 during the preliminary hearing is that our son gets into an ambulance that

1:22:25

Alberta Health Services had just taken over a year before and they proactively

1:22:31

went into the ambulances in the south zone of Alberta and they removed certain

1:22:36

equipment from those ambulances. The paramedics looked at it and said, "We need that equipment."

1:22:41

Yes. And the first toddler that gets into our ambulance that needs an airway is dead.

1:22:47

Yeah. That goes on for a year. And the end of it immediately when they found

1:22:52

that absolutely backed off. Yeah. So we're thinking this is about to come out. It already came out in in

1:22:58

incredible clarity as the paramedic is basically breaking down on the stand and

1:23:05

and in tears over the fact that he couldn't save my son because he his his request Alberta

1:23:12

Health Services had gone um ignored for over a year. And then get this,

1:23:20

my son Ezekiel passes. He goes for eight and a half minutes without any oxygen. comes out in 2014 and he ends up passing

1:23:27

cuz his brain is is absolutely destroyed by the time that they get him into the Alberta Children's Hospital. And not just from that event, there's a few

1:23:34

events that that would stack up and we'd learned that over time. The very next week, all of those

1:23:39

ambulances were outfitted with that proper equipment from Alberta Health Services. So, they were not

1:23:45

of guilt right there. Well, absolutely. So they weren't just targeting us based on who we were and based on oh they didn't vaccinate we can

1:23:51

go for they were also involved in a coverup and they had to come up with an alternative um mode of death saying well

1:23:58

bacterial menitis it doesn't matter if he got an airway or not because he had so much intercraanial pressure that it

1:24:05

compressed the brain stem shutting down his ability to breathe and his heart to beat and so that's what happened. Well,

1:24:12

that would come with a set of symptoms that's undeniable because that kind of intercraanial pressure is going to come with a that's going to be a headache

1:24:18

from hell. Like the worst of headaches. He didn't have that. He showed no signs of discomfort.

1:24:24

He was playful a couple hours before it. Nothing lined up. reality didn't line up

1:24:29

with the narrative that they had generated that they had to use a non uh clinical research methodology to

1:24:35

establish which that phrase simply meant PCR test which was not approved.

1:24:41

Don't get me started on that. It literally that's what it meant. It was a PCR test which was not approved for diagnostics in cerebral spinal fluid

1:24:48

in Alberta. PCR is not really a test by the way. It's it's a it's a mode of of it's a

1:24:54

operational uh what do you call it device so so to speak to concentrate to

1:24:59

magnify a piece we use it in genetics. So the the idea is that that people got

1:25:05

bedazzled by the PCR tests and even the inventor Dr. Carrie Mullis said that you should never use it for diagnostics

1:25:11

because it'll find false positives everywhere especially if you run too many cycles which they obviously did way over 25 to 45 whatever

1:25:17

you will find what you're looking in the Indian tradition where everything's mirrored and everything

1:25:23

you'll find. So sorry I because it's a horrible story if you think I keep on thinking the fact you've actually lost

1:25:29

your child. Mhm. Psychopaths by definition don't feel

1:25:35

empathy. Like that's part the whole psychopathic tendency is a lack of empathy. And if you start working with

1:25:41

these certain types of people that are hired in even different types of positions in companies or government

1:25:47

organizations, you see that there's psychopathic tendencies and that's why they're hired in these

1:25:53

positions. They'll just follow and do what they're told and it's almost they want to gloat and smile. I saw this in a social worker when I was in the court

1:25:58

cases going through ours that this the social worker was out in the hall and there's this mother. She was so distraught and she's going to lose her

1:26:04

child. And I watched what had happened and what she had done and she hadn't done anything. And the woman looked at

1:26:10

me in the hallway, the social worker, like she was just happy that this lady's going to lose her child. She's just devastated. And and I just looked at

1:26:17

her. I glared like don't look at me like that. You're a psychopath. Like they're literally I think that we're engaged in

1:26:24

this process where the psychopaths now are coming to the surface. You're seeing them. You're seeing and people that call

1:26:30

people gaslighters are typically the gaslighter. We're trained to use words. Narcissists will will narcissist say

1:26:38

you're a narcissist. That's how I learned about narcissism was actually having two narcissists living on my property. I had no idea and

1:26:43

and I had these two people always pointing the fingers at everyone saying they're narcissists. So I went and looked into it and I'm like you guys are

1:26:49

narcissists. It's crazy. And even anything to do, don't get me started too on toxic masculinity, all this stuff. Being a

1:26:54

strong person and precise and confident is toxic masc. No, it's not. It's actually what keeps society together,

1:27:01

the female and masculine principles operating on their positive pulls is about inclusivity, precision, and if you

1:27:08

look to the ancient metaphors for that, there there was no about pushing the male aside and anything to do with

1:27:13

strength and everything that just creates a society that's easy to control. Sorry, I'm going to No, that's okay. And and to follow that

1:27:20

digression, I I want to go down this a little bit further is you you mentioned, you know, the psychopaths arising, which is often times associated with

1:27:26

narcissistic personality disorder. I believe it's actually a symptom. And and I and I have some some stuff to

1:27:32

qualify that theory where I've seen it turn around. Yeah. And so that's great. They turn it around.

1:27:37

Yes. But but but it's based on on on circum internal circumstances, right? But we'll get into that in a bit. But

1:27:43

yeah, so the this is what we're dealing with is people that are completely heartless. Yeah. Right. Completely heartless. and they

1:27:48

are just running us through the meat grinder really. And so now I'm thinking, why are you

1:27:54

guys proceeding with this trial? It's going to look really bad. The news is going to expose all of this as it comes to the forefront that you had an

1:28:01

improperly um equipped ambulance. You were aware of the improperly equipped

1:28:07

ambulance. It caused the death of my son. That's criminal negligence

1:28:12

resulting in death. That's up to 25 years in jail. Yeah. Somebody is going to be hung out to drive. Nobody's going to pay.

1:28:18

Well, would you ever hear that from the the media? No. They So, what happened is I'm thinking you guys are crazy because

1:28:23

the media is going to report on this. The media refused to report on it. And when it came out in the first trial,

1:28:28

2016, that basically the the autopsy report was falsified that there was no scientific evidence to support it. And

1:28:34

this is coming from uh the former chief medical examiner of Alberta comes and looks at the case, looks at the slides,

1:28:41

looks at everything that's still available and says, "You can't qualify bacterial menitis. There's no evidence to support that.

1:28:48

Does the media report on it? No. That was the one day that the media all left so that they could say, "Oh, we didn't

1:28:54

hear it." So, we didn't have to report it cuz they knew what they were going to hear. So, they were taking it. This is

1:28:59

This is where it got really interesting. You saw the evidence over the month and a half trial that the media was actually

1:29:05

taking their cues from the crown. The crown was telling them what to

1:29:11

report on. They'd all gather around the crown after just like everybody in all across the world was

1:29:16

synchronized and what because they're owned by the same media outlets. How would they do that? How would they do that? No, because they're all organized

1:29:21

together through the same media ownership. They're captured and then the government's captured through it. So you just saw before it was happening co what

1:29:28

everybody saw which you're starting to figure out how could you have the exact same catchphrases the entire spectrum

1:29:33

because they're being told what to say. Now we had one reporter who so it's not news who knew us. I mean, he wasn't close to

1:29:38

us, but he knew us because he actually lived, but when we formerly lived in this small town, he lived literally

1:29:44

across the road from us. And they removed him off the case because he was reporting objectively. He wasn't just

1:29:50

sympathet empathetic. He empathized with you in a

1:29:55

true way that he saw, look what they're doing. Oh my god, this right. But but even empathy aside, he

1:30:00

was literally just reporting what was taking place in the courtroom, whereas all the other media wasn't reporting

1:30:06

that, spinning it. Yes, that's what I was saying about old news was talking. Yeah. So, they removed him off the case and he came and saw us after when they

1:30:12

reinstated him on the case towards the end and he he explained he says, "Hey, by the way, sorry I was, you know, not reporting anymore, guys. They removed me

1:30:18

off the case because of Right." I'm like, "Oh, that's interesting, right?" And um and so then we knew that we were

1:30:26

like, "This is uphill battle. This has nothing to do with the truth. The media is not reporting on the fact that there is an incredible double standard. You

1:30:32

just charged us for failing to provide necessaries of life, saying that you ignored the symptoms of bacterial menitis, which which my son didn't have.

1:30:39

And by doing so, you failed to provide necessaries of life. That's up to 5 years in jail. But yet on the other side, there is a crystal clearcut case

1:30:47

of criminal negligence resulting in death, which is 25 years in jail. And yet nobody's reporting on it. They're

1:30:53

shoving under the rug. It comes out in great clarity over the stand. Yet the

1:30:59

world doesn't know about it. And we're made out to look like these crazies. Yeah. Who were feeding our son through an

1:31:06

eyropper. That That was some of the narrative. It's like, how do you feed somebody through I I've never tried it yet still to date, but I don't know if

1:31:12

you could actually ever get an eye dropper. Can you I think people just need to meet people before they start judging like they do.

1:31:17

And then they'd see that the narrative is spun so heavily. It's It's disgusting. It's like the bigger the lie, the easier it is to believe, right?

1:31:23

Like you say, it was so tabloid style and people want to believe that. I mean, there's a reason why tabloid type media still cuz

1:31:30

it's so entertaining. Well, in this instance, literally all of the major news corpse became tabloid

1:31:36

style media, right? And so, we became basically the most hated couple in Canada. Death threats

1:31:41

were flowing. Med RCMP was ignoring them, saying that they're they're not legit. I'm like, we just supplied you

1:31:48

with two dozen death threats, like legitimate death threats, plus like hundreds of hate hate mail that was that

1:31:53

occurred because of CBC's spin on this. and they're like, "Nope, not not there." And so we're like, "Okay, I guess uh I

1:32:00

guess we're being hung out to dry here and and we don't have we're not protected under the law." So, um what

1:32:07

would come out of 2016 is the judge would go so far as to misinstruct the

1:32:12

jury so as to ensure a conviction. He went against case law because the jury

1:32:18

had just they had seen it all. Yeah. And they had seen the games. And so the jury comes out after a day of

1:32:24

deliberating, after they've been charged to to find us not guilty or guilty.

1:32:29

Yeah. And they come out after a day and six out of the 12 are crying.

1:32:36

Danielle Smith on, I believe is QR770, uh, radio show, uh, Alberta,

1:32:43

uh, reports 30 minutes before the verdict is out that we've been found

1:32:49

guilty. So yeah, that's the thing that people don't want to believe either that they

1:32:54

actually have fixed a case that basically force a hand. Like it it seems

1:32:59

it just seems like a bad movie. No, it doesn't happen in reality. That reality is is more intense than f what's the

1:33:06

word? Reality is uh more than fiction. How's the stranger than fiction? Yeah. Fact is stranger than fiction.

1:33:11

Yeah. Fact is stranger than fiction. Not stranger though. More horrific at the same time. Yeah. Well, so this is like a movie

1:33:16

literally playing out where I'm just looking at saying, is this actually happening? because I found out about that right after the jury came in, six

1:33:22

of them crying and uh hesitantly saying guilty, right? Like they didn't want to, but they were actually forced into a

1:33:29

corner by the judge and then a appeal would have commence um which was a very

1:33:34

easy appeal by the way, the the amount of appealable points during that case. But what ended up happening is this

1:33:41

couple was driving into Lbridge that knows my dad and they heard it over the radio that we were guilty. So they're like, "Oh, we got to go and support the

1:33:47

family there." you know, they're probably just devastated at the courtroom. They show up to the courthouse and we're all sitting in the hallway waiting to hear when the the

1:33:55

jury was going to be ready for us to go into the courtroom for them to deliver already heard beforehand. So, they heard it on the radio and then

1:34:01

they got to hear it in real life in the courtroom. Uh the guilty verdict and and

1:34:06

then they told us how they're like, "This is weird. What is going on?" So,

1:34:11

I go to jail, right? And they shove me in solitary confinement. Um, and then we

1:34:16

appeal and we get before the appeals courts and we're out on on um not on

1:34:22

bail but uh on appeal conditions which by the way one of them is really strange. It says any sign or uh of

1:34:29

injury or illness um you need to go to the doctor. Now that that literally if

1:34:34

if one of our son's noses started running, you got to go to the doctor, right? So the doctor kept on saying why

1:34:40

are you here? It's because we don't want to go to jail, right? because we'll we'll now be in contempt of the that's

1:34:45

up to two years in jail, right? And so so now we're we're waiting the appeal

1:34:51

and we get into Alberta appeals courts and they do a dirty on us and it was a two to one decision. The one judge was

1:34:57

not willing to relent and he was just saying no you know he he even just quoted says you know but by the grace of

1:35:04

God go I buy this couple or based on the error in law that the judge made uh the jury had no

1:35:11

choice but to find this couple guilty right he actually he clearly said that he said the jury literally had no choice

1:35:17

unless they were willing to go against the directives of the judge based on an error in law. So um 2 to1 decision he he

1:35:25

decides for us that that two say no and the decision is finally rendered on

1:35:31

November 15th 2017 the due date of my daughter Ella and I'm saying I'm not

1:35:36

going in. My wife's ready to to have a baby any moment now and I'm supposed to

1:35:42

go to jail again cuz they they ruled against us. Not doing it. You can come and get me. Come and handcuff me. Whatever. Right? So I'm like, but what I

1:35:48

will do is I'm going to write some scathing articles talking about this and CBC picks up on it and they try to twist

1:35:54

it, but they they made the mistake of linking directly back to my Facebook page and they they would never make that

1:36:00

mistake again. Right. Because then people are like, "What's this crazy doing?" And then they click on it and realize

1:36:05

not crazy at all. He's not Yeah. Right. So they weren't they weren't yet trying to silence my voice at that point

1:36:11

in time. They hadn't picked up on that yet. They weren't smart enough. They wouldn't do that until 2020 was the last report that they do on me when I called

1:36:17

CO a hoax, right? And they only made that mistake once. Um, so

1:36:23

I don't go back to jail. The crown comes back after this big uproar and they say,

1:36:29

"Uh, if you guys are appealing to the Supreme Court, uh, we won't make your client go back to jail. He can just

1:36:34

continue on with the the uh the" And at this point in time, the crown has been unrelenting. Like they're as cruel as

1:36:40

possible. All of a sudden, they're being nice, right? But it's because there's a black eye and people are saying, "Leave

1:36:45

this couple alone." Otherwise, it's going to expose everything that that we didn't want exposed that the media just covered for us. Yep. So, then uh we I'm like, "Okay,

1:36:54

Alberta appeals courts dirty. Absolutely dirty." We had a judge who had a conscience who was not willing to

1:36:59

compromise. That's that was our gateway into the Supreme Court. Supreme Court hears it. uh two of the judges have to

1:37:07

um have to uh recuse themselves because one of them was actually our lawyer for

1:37:12

True Hope before uh Shawn Buckley come came on. That's why we ended up with

1:37:17

Shawn Buckley is this lawyer became a judge and then would go on to become a Supreme Court justice, right?

1:37:23

So she had to recuse herself, but they have to keep it an odd number. So then another one recuse themselves. So we're down to seven.

1:37:29

So now this is fasttracked and we're now in um 2018, May of 2018 and we're

1:37:37

standing before the Supreme Court. They hear the case. They unanimously decide it was a wrongful conviction. Undo the

1:37:42

you know quash the conviction is I believe what the exact term was and order a new trial. Thinking well that's

1:37:49

nice and all. A new trial, a fair trial this time, but where's my almost million dollars that we have spent up to this

1:37:55

point? Yep. Feel you there, right? Where is it? I need it for another trial. I can't afford another

1:38:01

trial. Y So then we had to fire our lawyers because I'm I'm I'm getting broke,

1:38:06

right? And uh and our fundraising had been shut down time and time again, right? So we couldn't fund raise

1:38:12

just like uh when the truckers comment thing happened and GoFundMe just shut all the money out and block people. All

1:38:17

this stuff is highly illegal and and coerc it. There's so much subtrauge going on here. It's just okay. Go. So,

1:38:24

so we're we're broke, but I was feeling impressed that I needed to self-represent, but I didn't have the courage to take that step. I had to be

1:38:31

shoved into that position. And so, all the circumstances lined that I had no choice but to fire my my one lawyer and

1:38:38

Colette had a lawyer at this point in time. We weren't using Shawn Buckley anymore. Shawn Buckley was I my personal opinion, I think Shawn came out of that

1:38:45

that 2016 trial saying, "I don't want to anything to do with horrible any anything." And so, he he

1:38:52

have a break. He had to have a break. He told us he he was in in retirement. He came he's back with the force because

1:38:58

I think he just needed to It's like you need some time to recuperate and then get a fire started then it really goes

1:39:04

for it. Well, I I I think he had to have a mind shift recognizing the corruption that he was up against. Yeah, it's intense. And okay, to spin

1:39:11

off really quickly there, I think if people look and say, okay, is the government because everybody wants to be

1:39:17

this couldn't happen. This couldn't happen. But are governments for the people or to control the people?

1:39:26

Any kind of government. Well, break down the break down the word govern. Govern is control or force. And the politics, right? Mind

1:39:33

it is mental. So everything is about psychological techniques, strategies, tactics, everything that have been

1:39:39

learned through thousands, whatever how many years. And every system

1:39:45

it has has all these deficits. All these people want to think, oh, we'll switch from capitalism to communism, social,

1:39:50

whatever. No, they all have horrible deficit and they all have people at the top in shadow kind of thing that are pulling the strings because it's all

1:39:56

about trying to control. If you if you just see that if you've been forced down situations like we have if you I know a

1:40:02

lot of you out there already think of it but some if you just look at that and you see how much money certain people

1:40:09

have accumulated that they don't want to lose and why would they even want that much money that they're controlling all

1:40:15

the media and everything through ownership through these investments again you go back to Black Rockck Vanguard state things like that they

1:40:20

just control everything now they're buying up everything in monop monopolies in every industry it's just happening you just look at it

1:40:26

once you look at it you can never unsee it. But then everything starts to make sense when they're trying to control

1:40:32

you. Anybody that thinks outside the box that starts to get an audience has got to be squashed. Now they're trying to

1:40:39

put out fires everywhere because too many things got exposed slightly. And that's where I want to talk about when

1:40:45

everybody says what could we do or just go with the flow. By the way, going with the flow, if you study in ancient

1:40:50

philosophy and religion, all the traditions, going with the flow does not mean following the people off the edge

1:40:55

of the cliff. It means following your heart and sometimes going with the flow

1:41:02

means ferocity because that's what's necessary. And usually you don't want to

1:41:07

be fierce sometimes because you think it's going to come back at you. And the idea is we're just trying to to to ignite something in people saying no,

1:41:14

you can be fierce and that is compassion. You have to be you can't enable people with you can't

1:41:20

be passive all the time. That is not going with the flow. that is basically trying to escape it and not take any brunt because you're thinking more

1:41:27

yourself. Everything everybody should be honest when you say go with the flow. I don't want to get involved and be

1:41:32

silent. Does that mean that you're being the most helpful cuz you think it's wise or whatever all the yoga and different traditions you've done? Or does actually

1:41:38

the yoga and tradition say something totally different but you don't want to hear that? So you make it your own and say you know what and you know what when

1:41:45

you said it's totally understandable to say I can't handle this cuz oh my god

1:41:51

you have to build yourself up. So nobody's saying anything. It's that what we're what I think what there's a problem with is people that start

1:41:57

mouththing off that are just following something that they don't understand. Yep.

1:42:03

We're we're asking you please stand down and let people that have actually gone down all the rabbit holes and the other

1:42:09

side get into discourse with people in the way that don't understand things and they start yapping off their opinions

1:42:15

because they just followed an expert. That's actually really destructive to the whole process of community building.

1:42:20

Because what I even right now what I'm trying to appeal is that all you Health Canada people, anybody that might listen

1:42:26

to this on either side of our podcast systems, right, is that we're trying to appeal to your humanity here. You know

1:42:31

that a lot of people in your organization in the government and the corporations that you deal with in the pharmaceutical net, we're talking this

1:42:38

industry in particular, is they're corrupt. And you see they're also power trippers and you're just supposed to do

1:42:45

what you're supposed to do. And that does not feel human. That's not right. That's not what's going to connect us. And so following because you don't

1:42:51

understand what their methodology or their strategy, tactics, you just say, "I have to do this." But what if it

1:42:57

comes from a really ill intent? It's malicious like you were talking about earlier and then you just follow it top down. We're destroying society and we're

1:43:04

people and we recognize you as people and we want to have discourse, proper discourse. And I feel like us both being

1:43:12

we both being involved with Sean Buckley and now that he's come to like going for it and it's not about money. It's

1:43:17

definitely like a spiritual mission. We all come from different traditions, but from the depths, we're all understanding

1:43:23

each other. We're going for the same heartfelt mission is trying to raise everybody up, trying to empower everyone again to stop

1:43:31

listening and stop following this authoritative kind of thing that we've been trapped into for so many decades,

1:43:37

hundreds, thousands of years. is right now it seems to be like a mass upheaval

1:43:42

of of distrust sorry in everything left right center all the saying none of it

1:43:48

actually makes sense and we're just giving you examples here of how bad it can get but if we all

1:43:56

start standing they can't put out that many fires then things are going to change and then I feel like we can come together again and forgiveness is a huge

1:44:02

part of that the last five years there's horrible stuff said about both of us and

1:44:07

our families and everything that whatever it's because people get trapped in fear and really good divide and

1:44:13

conquer tech tactics and we've been indoctrinated for so long. Now is the time to get out of the boxes. So sorry I

1:44:19

just wanted to break off into that little rant. Well that's that's a great point especially well the whole thing is really great. Um but I want to touch on

1:44:25

that that go in the going with the flow thing. Um the principle that I'm about to lay out also applies to surfing

1:44:32

uh about being pummeled by waves but I'm a whitewater kayaker. Yep. And you don't go with the you don't

1:44:38

going with the flow does not mean lifting up the paddle and just coasting. If you want a beating, that's exactly

1:44:44

how you're going to get a beating. You're going to get caught in, you know, on an eddy line. You're going to get flipped around, right? You have to be often times in

1:44:52

control to really go with the flow. You've got to be using some muscle, right? And you're you're paddling to

1:44:58

make sure that you're going down the right portion. Otherwise, you're going to get caught in a hole. And I've been there, right? I'm just imagine all the

1:45:04

other guys tumbling under the water when they pulled themselves up. There's no balance there, right? Like you you know the course.

1:45:11

Yeah. And you want to go with that flow, you've got to direct it and that's going to take some muscle. You want to catch a wave surfing.

1:45:17

That's not just going to passively happen. Be like, "Oh, here's the wave coming. Get on the board." No, you've got to paddle hard. Skill. There's skill involved.

1:45:23

Yeah. Exactly. Wisdom, anticipation, skill, it's all involved. It's two wings of the bird. Wisdom and skill. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And just like surfing,

1:45:30

two wings of the bird, right? So, um, yeah. So, going back to 2018, uh,

1:45:36

basically, you know, we're we're firing our lawyers. They're not willing to deal with the corruption that we've discovered. By this point in time, my

1:45:42

brother Brad, um, has a team, and they're going through the medical files of the fine tooth comb to find the

1:45:47

deficiencies. And they are finding all sorts of stuff, including we're getting close to the causation of the emergent

1:45:54

situation that Ezekiel found himself in. And it was and these are needles in a hay stack that they are not talking

1:46:01

about. Nothing to see here. And they're avoiding, but they know it. The medical system knows it. But the problem is it

1:46:07

highlights the criminal negligence resulting in death because, well, let's put it out a hypothetical here that's

1:46:12

not so hypothetical. You end up with a child that has an electrolyte imbalance and it causes disruption in the the

1:46:18

muscle function of his heart and whatnot and it starts to go a little bit wonky.

1:46:24

Well, that's an easy correctable condition if you can get the the patient stabilized. Yeah. But you can't stabilize a patient if you

1:46:30

don't have the right equipment. So, an easily correctable situation arises and they are deficient in the

1:46:37

equipment constituting criminal negligence resulting in death. Now they're avoiding the the true cause and

1:46:43

they're they're going all over the place including we end up with medical files that were initially withheld that say

1:46:49

that they've already ruled out menitis or any infection and they're looking for an alternative cause as to why he passed

1:46:55

and they're going so far as to look at the supplements he was on to see if any of that would cause it. They are looking for any plausible alternative to

1:47:04

absolve themselves of any responsibility and to criminalize us. Well, they end up having to go the bacterial menitis route

1:47:11

and and fabricate this whole thing that pops up in 2016. It's facious in in uh

1:47:16

we end up in our second trial in 2019. It's facious. It becomes even more abundantly clear. I cross-examine the

1:47:23

medical examiner who refuses to give a clear answer. It takes five days to

1:47:29

cross-examine them to try to get the truth out of them. Everybody's frustrated, but the process had to

1:47:34

happen because I would ask him a simple question. It should be a yes or no. and he would go into this long- winded

1:47:39

deflectionary let's let's avoid the actual core substance of the question and let's confuse you over here and I'm

1:47:47

having to hone him back in re him back in and he's getting frustrated saying you didn't answer the question I'm looking did did this happen yes or no

1:47:54

whatever judge is getting incredibly frustrated with him so 5 days later he's finally off the hook right 5 days of

1:48:01

cross-examining this guy who's trying to hide the truth as to why my son end end

1:48:07

up in the situation he was that would ultimately just bury the case. Well,

1:48:14

um during this time during 2016 2019, they're turning this case into the

1:48:19

biggest because they can't go vaccine anymore. So, they're actually making it the biggest choice of care case in

1:48:26

Canada, which means there's criminal liability surrounding

1:48:31

your choice to choose natural medicine over alopathic medicine. That's what they that's what why they continued on

1:48:37

with it and they turned it into that. So now every naturopathic doctor in the country knows my name and they either

1:48:42

love or hate me because the very question about naturopaths being licensed is coming into question based

1:48:49

off of our trial.