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hello there and welcome to the special episode of True Hope cast the official podcast of true hope Canada this is the

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third episode in a series of eight where Mr David Stefan VP of true hope Canada

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and I take you on a step-by-step journey through this company's incredible

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history I want you to please note that this episode is quite lengthy it's comprehensive it's detailed so you may

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want to consider breaking it down into two three or even four sessions but please sit back relax enjoy the true

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Hope Family files part three tragedy strikes again enjoy the show millions of

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Canadians do it every day take some sort of Natural Health product in fact close to three4 of us take vitamins but some

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fear their access to supplements and minerals could be restricted if the Harper government passes Bill c-51 AS

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Global zel Sweeney explains many wonder if government regulations is really the right

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remedy people who take their vitamins minerals and health food supplements and take them seriously are now taking

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on the federal government telling the government to keep its hands off their health and we

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want our health care products we want Natural Health Care hundreds rallied and

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marched in Toronto in Edmonton and Vancouver to fight Federal legislation called bill c-51 that would put new

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regulations on health supplements an example things like vitamin C and things like cod liver oil uh things that that

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are that are readily available in stores at the moment will become unavailable and available by prescription only they

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say the government's bill is not clear but fear that it would mean Canadians have to go to a doctor to get a

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prescription for vitamins and buy them at a drugstore you know digestive

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enzymes um sort of like parasite and yeast like liver detox Angela chali is a

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naturopathic doctor who probably wouldn't be able to write those prescriptions she says the bill would

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restrict Health supplements for a lot of people who rely on them for preventative measures for treatment measures they

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often fill in the gaps where you know a pharmaceutical may not be helping and

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opponents of the legislation suspect there's another agenda going on they say it could give drug companies control of

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a booming vitamin and supplement Market worth around $2 billion a year federal

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health Minister Tony Clement says his legislation is just trying to protect Canadians he says it will weed out what

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he calls the bad guys in the industry and says other Natural Health products are going to thrive but the people who

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rely on that industry say natural remedies have been working for hundreds and even thousands of years and don't

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need the government control Al Sweeny Global News

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Toronto okay hi everybody welcome back to the true Hope Family files an eight-part special series here on true

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Hope cast the official podcast of of true hope Canada last week in part two

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we titled it the heavy hand of Health Canada today we jump into part three tragedy strikes again if you've yet to

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listen to part one and part two I highly suggest you do that so you can get up to speed and continue on this journey with

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us but we've got Mr David Stefan back with us again and he's going to take us through the incredible details of this

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true hope story good afternoon David how are you I'm doing well thank you Simon how are you doing I am wonderful yeah

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I'm excited to get back into back into the story back into the true Hope Family files here and as we finished off part

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two discussing bill c51 and the attempt of Health Canada to establish quite

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Draconian Powers within the natural heal food industry and we just saw a c a two- minute clip there of um of protesters

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not too happy with that decision do you think you can perhaps reintroduce this this this to us as we go from part two

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into part three as a little bit of a segue absolutely so last week we ended off on talking about how there was

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protests across the country in every major city really about this bill c51

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that was really going to give Health Canada some significant Draconian powers to basically decimate the Natural Health

4:15

industry now many people are saying well they won't really do that but unfortunately we already had other

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countries to model after to look at what had happened there including Australia New Zealand and the crisis that they

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were in at that point in time with with their natural health industry I think things have kind of turned around um due

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to pressure I haven't kept my thumb on the pulse there but I I do know there was a time when you would go into a

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health food store in Australia and you would find Barron shelves because there just wasn't pro products available and

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so the industry was really concerned about it going the same way and they were writing into legislation all the

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powers that they would have needed to make that happen and you don't ask for the keys for a Ferrari unless you're want to drive it and so the government

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was asking for all these powers or basically demanding them saying trying to push them through Parliament so they

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could use them not so that they had them at access you know when something happened that they maybe perhaps wanted

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them no they were planning to use that power to do something and really the

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only Power that or the only thing that it would have allowed them to do was legitimately decimate the Natural Health

5:24

industry in relation to anything that was deemed therapeutic it would become licensable so uh this would have

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actually even affected just you know everyday individuals who are growing

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garlic in their garden and all of a sudden Garlic's deemed a therapeutic because why it's therapeutic and all of

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a sudden it now becomes a licensable um product that the seeds would have to require license that you may have to

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even end up with a license to grow it in your garden right or that it's just removed from the market because well

5:54

it's a therapeutic so now it's under a different classification there basically it was so ambiguous in relation to how

6:01

it was drafted up that it would have granted them the ability to do all sorts of incredibly Draconian things and they

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would have had the authority to do it um including like raids on domiciles and all that type of stuff which we were

6:13

already understanding that they had done that a few times previous and now they were just looking to write it into law

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so that they could do it more so so there were some concerns there unbelievable yeah and I I remember

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reading Shan Buckley's discussion paper a couple of years back to discussing um

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new bills coming in in 2024 and He was discussing the fact that 80% of

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Canadians use Natural Health Products which is an incredibly large amount of individuals and I would I would argue

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that that number is more towards 90% now considering we've seen you know medical

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interventions push pushed on the public that have caused you know lots of lots of serious conditions and illnesses for

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a lot of people pushing people more towards a um natural approach rather than having to

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rely on pharmaceutical medication so it's very interesting just doing that video which was from when was that video

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from that we just saw that would have been from 2008 when Bill c-51 was um

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when the protests were at the at the height of at the height of the protest which was 2008 and it would have been

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around that same time shortly after that video that we watched that news clip that um that they would have uh scrapped

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the bill um we were fortunately Victorious but there were some things that that were concerning that led up to

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us being Victorious it was no small battle by any means outside of the Natural Health Community as well as

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within the Natural Health Community which is interesting because you think that you would have found a unified front in the Natural Health Community it

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wasn't there it wasn't to be found yeah quite remarkable scenes um

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that we've certainly seen over the last few years when it comes to choice and

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Natural Health Products aside there's been many other conflicts that we've seen that that people have people have been put under a

8:03

lot of pressure when it comes to their their ability to make decisions for themselves for their families and I think during that two-minute

8:12

video the news reporter alluded to the fact that the Natural Health industry is worth two like two billion

8:18

dollars annually and this is this is many years ago so it's has to be more and more now and at the end of the death

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I think if you think of it from a business standpoint from from Big farmer that's money that could be in their

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pocket whether that's 10% of that two billion 50% of that two billion 100% of that two billion people are going to the

8:38

health natural health food stores rather than going to the doctor and get a prescription and that's you know has to be seen as competition and we absolutely

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know about the pressures from these types of Industries to government to

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therefore put in legislations and bills that forces the hands of a lot of of

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these alternative natural health companies so it's really quite a um Insidious dark pressure that it comes

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from a lot of people might just stop and think oh it's just the government who are doing these things sure they're enforcing it but like where are these

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incentives coming from where are these pressures coming from you know what's the what's the real game that's a foot

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well I I think we need to look at it from a broader perspective too I mean you talk about you know let's say let's say hypothetically that you know the

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Natural Health industry in Canada is four or five billion now you know factoring in inflation and all that type

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of stuff as well as the growth that has taken place as people have been seeing what's taking place within allopathic

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medicine and naturally being turned away from it and wanting to take control of their health more Empower themselves by

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you know you know grabbing the bulll by the horns if you will and saying hey this my body I'm going to take control of it I'm G to make sure you know like

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I've got the the biggest vested interest in being healthy I'm going to get Natural Health Products rather than you

9:56

know trusting what my doctor had to say so let let's say that much larger now you're you you alluded to that

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particular portion uh let's say it's 5 billion that you know the pharmaceutical

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industry is maybe looking at that and saying we want a portion of that it goes beyond that the because when it stands

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at competition when the Natural Health Community stands at competition with the pharmaceutical industry it isn't just

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that the pharmaceutical industry is maybe losing five billion billion dollar profit to the Natural Health Community

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the profits don't align at all not not one bit because let's say that somebody was consuming EMP Power Plus and as such

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they're feeling wonderful they once were played let's say with bipolar disorder but now they're feeling really great and

10:44

they don't need medications and they're living life the way they want to and it's costing them about you know $60 to

10:50

$70 per month like that's that's pretty minimal what that actually equates to if

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you were to remove M Power Plus from the market and people didn't feel that they had another alternative so instead they

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go get on a bottle of paxel let's say well the cost of that is going to be

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more like $300 per month so even though you H

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because it's patented and because it's it's subsidized it's socialized medicine uh here in Canada and so it's not going

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to cost the individual $300 per month right or 350 or whatever I don't know what it is now I I remember the original

11:28

breakdown years ago this is well over a decade ago that you know it was costing them Like Dimes to make this stuff and

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yet legitimately it's being sold for over $300 per bottle right and so you've got this major you know profit margin

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there and so extremely profitable and so now when you have somebody who is doing

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something natural versus allopathic it's a significant profit

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loss that that 5 billion let's say if that's what it was for the Natural Health Community if you were able to

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shift everybody over from the Natural Health Community over to allopathic medicine that 5 billion would translate

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to more like you know 25 billion 50 billion something like that something

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significant because the astronomical cost difference in relation to the medicine that's coming through allopathy

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versus the counterpart that you would find within nature that is not patentable is coming at a signif ific

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reduced cost so it's not you know if it was two billion back then it's not two billion they're looking at they're

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looking at it if we were to translate in that into the the profits if they were

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taking pharmaceutical medications it skyrockets that profit margin like it it or profitability overall it's not two

12:46

billion it is like way more like you know five 10 times the amount yeah so

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it's so they're they're seeing it through a little bit different a different lens that uh when they're

12:57

coveting the um the profits they're not coveting the profits per se they're covering coveting

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the clients and those clients are going to end up on much more costly medicine

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because it's patented and because they can get away with it because it's socialized and monopolized through the government absolutely and when you're

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looking at a natural health product I think there are many examples where you can actually

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prevent treat and heal a lot of disorders but when you're looking at a

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pharmaceutical medications somebody who's on one for a long period of time we all know they come with side effects

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which is likely going to lead to other medications which is just like more products on more products and I guess

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being you know Executives and pharmaceutical industry they have to recognize that the majority of customers

13:47

people on drugs are going to end up being on two three four maybe even five

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in some cases I I don't know what the average amount of pharmaceuticals let's say a 75y old person takes in can these

13:59

days but it has to be more than two or three to deal with the side effects of being on these drugs for probably a couple of decades so yeah it's yeah you

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say bigger picture stuff it's a lot of money um there's a lot of interest there's a lot of pressures coming from

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from all angles and that's why we see governments attempting to push through legislation that we really when

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you look at the grand scheme of things like it's not it's not serving the people it's not serving their interests their freedoms their ability to make

14:24

choices for themselves you know before 2004 there weren't any natural health regulations and there weren't there

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weren't bodies piled up in natural health food stores you know it was the Wild West out there and I know Sean Buckley talks a lot about that as well

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in with his work with the nhpa but let's continue on this timeline here so we're

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we're into 2008 now and what's going on with true hope and you can probably slip

14:48

that into what's going on with with um bill c-51 as well yeah absolutely so so

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trop is thriving we had just come out of the court case two years before that you know we were kind of kind of

14:59

experiencing a sense of Peace except for the fact that we were proactively pursuing um a lawsuit against Health

15:05

Canada for what health Canada done to the Canadian public um in their dangerous uh Reckless acts if you will U

15:12

that ultimately caused suicides that we had covered back in episode two they literally killed people um and they knew

15:18

that they were going to cause harm and even death in what they were doing but they did it anyways uh to try to fulfill

15:24

their agenda so uh we're doing well at true hope but we are taking Health

15:30

Canada to task at this point in time we have Bill C c-51 emerg and I know last time we ended off on a bit of a

15:35

cliffhanger talking about that there was infiltrators within the Natural Health Community that were actually working

15:42

actively against us um in relation to raising the alarm around bill c-51 in

15:49

relation to helping to incite protests all across Canada um what you'll find common play or common theme throughout

15:56

the entirety of of the protest when you look at there's dozens of news Clips out there that show what was taking place

16:02

with those protests in different cities you're going to see the same common branding you're going to see the stop sign stop c-51 true Hope was responsible

16:09

for bringing that about when we discovered what was taking place uh my father called a late night meeting um

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all the executive staff got together for True hope uh arrived at head office probably around 11 o'clockish by the

16:22

time 4:00 in the morning rolls around we're all dispersing after we had come up with a game plan as to how each of us

16:28

in our perspective roles would be able to to help uh contribute to this battle and um and so we took this seriously and

16:36

um I ended up uh doing video work and managing the social media to get it out

16:41

there as to what was taking place social media was a little bit of a newer entity back then um so I was getting my feet

16:47

wet with uh my first social media project at that point in time and um and

16:53

so that that's what we were doing we were taking it very serious but we had a lot of people opposing us and all of a sudden you know out of the most unlikely

17:00

places we would never have expected it to be within the the ranks of the Natural Health Community itself but all

17:05

of a sudden we see this concerted effort to sideline us to sideline what we were

17:11

doing and to shift the message that no we don't need to stop Bill c-51 no we don't need to get rid of it let's amend

17:18

it let's amend it really passive you know like let let's just cater to what

17:24

they're doing but let's just get them to shift some of the wording in it because you know we need this

17:30

and we're saying wait a minute no no no no no you you you give them an in so they're going to take a mile like you

17:35

just you just don't open that door don't do it we've already catered to their 2004 Natural Health product regulations

17:43

which was against all of the recommendations that were made within Parliament uh within the community that

17:48

was established in years previous to that um and so Health Canada was still operating outside of um what was being

17:55

recommended through the MPS which was ultimately coming from feedback from the Canadian public so Health Canada was out

18:00

of line already that they were not representing the needs and desires of the Canadian populace and so we weren't

18:07

going to let you know cave more to what they were wanting that now they're not asking for even more power because as if

18:13

they didn't get enough in 2004 which ultimately led to the the removal of of a lot of products which we we will get

18:19

to over time um but Canadians don't have access to nearly the amount of Natural Health Products that they once would

18:25

have had had available available to them on the food store shelves um it's been a slow fade it's taken place over the last

18:32

decade and a half but literally like a fraction of the amount and so what we found is that the Canadian

18:41

Health Food Association the chfa they run the two biggest trade shows in all

18:47

of Canada they run the two biggest trade shows for the Natural Health Community

18:53

where you'll have all of the vendors will come all the manufacturers and they'll they'll set up the booth you're

18:59

going to have all the health food stores come in and you're going to have other manufacturers involved in that as well

19:06

going around to you know the product manufacturers soliciting you know their their um what they do you know what

19:12

services they have to offer with with manufacturing vitamins minerals whatever whatever right and so you have this big

19:18

conglomeration thousands and thousands of people get together in the Vancouver Trade Center um uh not Trade Center the

19:25

um Convention Center as well as in Toronto as well the two largest shows that happen in Canada every year now

19:30

this organization is supposed to be protecting the Natural Health Community from Health Canada so they're

19:38

kind of like the middleman that represents they almost like an elected official if you will they're supposed to

19:43

be representing the Natural Health Community and going to health Canada and saying look no we're not going to stand

19:49

for this and so basically they're they're getting all this membership money to protect their members well what

19:56

we found is that they were the ones that came out with this whole plan and they actually stole our marketing all of the

20:03

stuff that we had done and and tried to hijack it and all of a you see stop signs that say rather than stop it says

20:08

amend like that doesn't make sense yeah sure it's somewhat close to the French word arett right like no it's not starts

20:16

with an A that's the only the only thing so it made no sense all a you have amend on a stop sign and it says amend c-51 so

20:22

they literally you know when you glance at it it had the same branding that we had established but yet it has a shift

20:29

message so they were literally trying to take all of the people that we had convinced that this is really bad get

20:34

rid of it and they were trying to take them and sideline them and basically make it look like oh oh it's not stop

20:41

it's amend and sideline them into a different message a different mode of action that was ultimately going to

20:48

allow Health candada to still have these Powers but just you know some of the verbage would be changed or removed well

20:56

there was an individual in organization and I would list his name except he wants to remain anonymous and I don't blame him that did some digging and he

21:03

dug into this and what he found is that Agri Food Canada another government

21:11

organization um closely related to health Canada had been funding the chfa

21:17

through the back door to the tune of um the numbers very now I mean we're we're 16 years out from this now but my

21:23

recollection is is that it was 34 of a million dollars the number I received the other day when I was following up

21:29

with this was about a million and a half um I'm going to go with the more conservative um number and based on my

21:35

memory my memory is typically pretty good that it was about three4 of a million dollars had been back doored to

21:42

the chfa through Agra Food Canada and so here they're receiving

21:48

money from government but yet they're supposed to be protecting the industry from government and so this information

21:55

is released um we go public on it and literally um within a very short

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period of time after this uh this Scandal uh was was you know the lid was popped off the Scandal uh Penny morett

22:10

the president of the chfa uh stepped down resigned um over the whole catastrophe because they'd been caught

22:17

with their pants down they had been caught with the fact that they were in bed with the government that they were supposed to be protecting the whole

22:23

industry from and so here you have this organization that's displaying elements of corruption

22:29

that they're they're playing both sides of the fence and they can only serve one master and if they're getting a bunch of

22:34

money from the industry from the Natural Health Community but yet they're also getting money from the government and

22:40

it's maybe a little bit more promising a little easier to get that money from the government who are you going to serve so

22:46

what we see is this dumbed down message where they literally are trying to dissuade the whole

22:52

industry from following in in in step with true hope because we were the ones leading the charge and to turn their

22:59

backs on us they were we we had been listed as radicals we were way out there you know we're just you know don't don't

23:05

align with them align with us and they had all of the major players on board we see a live magazine publishing um

23:12

articles on it and and advertisements a men c51 we started seeing our marketing

23:17

material our branded marketing material but with aend um as backdrops um in in

23:23

the health food stores behind the desk and stuff like that they basically turned the whole industry on us there

23:28

was very few that were willing to take the Bold stand but fortunately um we had already we had to head start because we

23:34

were the first to alarm the industry of what was going on and as such we were able to have success but we got to see

23:41

that there were some dirty players some plants if you will or infiltrators in the Natural Health Community that were

23:48

there to basically Point people in the wrong direction and we still see the same thing today which Sean speaks about

23:54

I've spoken about in relation to chfa as well we W want to fast forward their yet because that's I think episode8 that

24:00

we're going to cover that maybe that's episode seven one of the two but um we I'm sure we'll be covering that but we

24:07

got to see back then that those that were supposed to be protecting us were

24:12

actually working against us and trying to dumb down everybody that would be

24:18

affected by this really terrible legislation and to get them to just readily accept it with some minor

24:24

changes yeah I think the chfa that it's a very interesting organization which I believe would have been um founded with

24:32

very very good intention but we see these like middle organizations between the government and the

24:39

people often captured in many many different Industries and you know obviously money talks and there's actual

24:46

evidence of this money coming from from the government to into this organization which would obviously highly conflicting

24:53

and chfa so much um impact within the industry so much trust has been built up

24:59

because there is a lot of amazing individuals within the Natural Health Community you know a lot of wonderful

25:04

trusting individuals and the actions are just incredibly suspicious from the chfa and yeah we'll get into it in future

25:10

episodes but we're seeing still today in 2024 and if that organization there

25:15

being that middleman between the government and the people is there to protect the individuals and give the individuals maximum opportunity to

25:23

choose natural options for their health but these regulations back even back

25:29

then which just would be absolutely disastrous for the whole industry you know even just even with minor tweaks or

25:35

amendments to what's being proposed it's such a um controversial weak stance to

25:42

take against the tyrannical regime so just just scre I'm so skeptical about

25:48

their intentions and um yeah it's quite wild that yeah even in 2024 we're still

25:54

we're still seeing them having this huge impact we've seen that they've received funding from you

26:01

know the primary agency that they're supposed to be let's just

26:07

say supposed to be combative with to protect protect the people yeah yeah and

26:13

and had this had this legislation gone through back in 2008 I promise you this

26:18

and this this is what every Canadian needs to be aware of is that we would be looking at an entirely different

26:24

landscape in relation to the Natural Health industry that's in Canada right now oh yeah and it would be very very

26:30

dismal so if you you know the audience watching this if you consume Natural

26:36

Health Products today um you need to be grateful for the fact that there was a lot of Warriors that were still willing

26:42

to take a stand and that there was organizers like we see Brett HW there and he's still a fantastic Warrior um he

26:50

was in that news clip there and his voice is just so distinct like I've done podcasts with them in the past um been

26:56

in meetings with them and stuff like that and and uh you know as soon as I hear his voice even though he's not visually represented in the video yet

27:03

you know it's him but you know people like him and and others across Canada that were willing to organize these

27:09

protests and to take this bold stand because had that not taken place had the

27:15

alarm not been sounded we would be in a much different situation today and you might not be enjoying the Natural Health

27:22

Products that you have access to today so it's really we need to put that in

27:27

context here that there has been a vested interest from the powers that be

27:32

to remove access to supplements that would Empower you they really what

27:39

they're looking to do is remove choice that you can Empower yourself but rather you're no longer empowered you have to

27:46

go to the doctor if you have some manifestation of disease that's your only option and that's been you know

27:51

part of the agenda since day one of Rockefeller medicine coming out um back in the earlier 1900s

27:58

and uh we saw that uh they decimated Homeopathy they decimated naturopathy back then and it wouldn't be till you

28:05

know like the '90s that that actually started to make a comeback but they literally decimated the only thing that actually Survived The Purge initially

28:12

was Chiropractic but it still came under Fire yeah it's still under Fire today if you go and do some searches online

28:18

you're gonna find all sorts of um uh quackery sites uh citing Chiropractic as

28:24

quackery well it's pretty tangible you go in maybe sometimes you're feeling garage you come out you feel pretty good

28:30

can't chalk that all up to Placebo there were some legitimate physical adjustments taken place there to to

28:37

incite that that you know um reinvigoration if you will so absolutely

28:43

so yeah we come do we come a little bit further forward in the story now like bc51 was was scrapped that was a a

28:49

victory back then was we're we're seeing uh the battle resuming today but that

28:55

will be for a future episode where are we in in regards to True hope in the

29:01

20089 10 era yeah so you know we're we're still fighting the battle um we we

29:07

consider that a victory the fact that they scra that bill they actually tried to resurrect it again under Bill C6 I

29:12

think in the next um because parlament was pred so the whole thing got you know disappeared they brought it back it got

29:18

scrapped um which was a good thing so there was actually a couple battlefronts there um a little bit of a tumultuous

29:25

time but then you know we get into a peaceful situation where it's

29:30

okay there's no battles to be fought other than we're going to continue to to fight you know or or to pursue this

29:37

lawsuit uh the initial lawsuit was lost um there was some real corruption

29:42

associated with that court case uh like significantly actually uh Sean Buckley

29:47

is representing um I'm sure he could comment on it to a much greater degree than than I'm able to U but let's just

29:54

say that I think it left him shooken if you will um in relation to what was taking place in the Judiciary and the

30:01

and the the grand level of corruption there uh to allow for health Canada to get away with uh these egregious actions

30:08

that legitimately caused or cost Canadians their lives they lit like

30:14

anybody else would have been charged criminally for criminal negligence resulting in death um for doing what

30:21

health Canada did and yet no criminal uh charges against any of the agents

30:28

um no successful lawsuits and so they were able to get away with it but it got it became more egregious we appealed it

30:37

and then the appeal was lost and then to boot to add insult to injury then we

30:44

were stuck with paying a portion of Health Canada's legal fees so we got

30:49

stuck with $150,000 bill on top of the fact that we had just spent all this time and money

30:55

and resources fighting on behalf of the Canadian public to ensure that Health Canada wasn't able to go and kill people

31:03

anymore um without being held accountable and so now we're stuck with the bill and so my my dad pushed that

31:11

back and paid it off as slowly as possible um I mean if if he could have gotten away with it he would have just

31:17

you know I'm sure you know lock a better well he would have stuck it to them and just said go away right like you guys

31:22

are criminals including the Judiciary those who were involved in allowing this

31:28

egregious action to take place because it was a very strong case very strong lawsuit um we had we had legal standing

31:37

and we had a a clear-cut case and yet we were sidelined and all to protect Health

31:42

Canada and to protect the agents so they can continue to feel protected in harming Canadians right when in reality

31:49

you think that Health Canada agents would be there to look out for the health of Canadians and so we're stuck

31:55

with the $150,000 bill and uh we're just we're just left

32:00

shaking our head saying wow this is so so incredibly dirty like so

32:06

dirty yeah just the fact that Health Canada knew 100% that stopping this

32:15

product from getting into the hands and bodies of of Canadians was going to end

32:20

some of their lives is just it's just unbelievable to think that the Judiciary

32:26

System would not take action against against that it's you know it's

32:32

obviously they're trying to take care of their own and not turn this into a huge big theme because obviously if the if

32:38

the the result of that case would have gone the other way and health Canada were like hugely liable for these actions then this would be this would be

32:45

Global News it would be absolutely huge and I I'm convinced that they had those

32:51

conversations that if this was to go that way this would happen and heal Canada and the large govern

33:35

[Music]

33:57

there was quite a symbiotic relationship there if you will where they there was a balance brought and and whatnot so that

34:04

you know David Hardy would sometimes you know re my father in a little bit slow him down my father would have to you know drag him along sometimes say let's

34:11

get let's do this right and hence why you know I mentioned uh last episode about the phone calls that had been made

34:17

um to health Canada agents when we were when we found out that they were going to drop the charges my father made phone

34:23

calls saying hey we're really excited you guys are dropping the charges um because he didn't want to drop the

34:28

charges by the way he wanted to take this to court but he said hey we're excited to that you're dropping the charges because we're going to sue you

34:33

personally as soon as we're out of court as soon as all is done we're suing you personally and so he did that with all

34:39

the health can and the Agents that were involved with the this uh egregious actions against the Canadians and um

34:46

what it caused Health Canada to do was not drop the charges and they were going to continue to come out come out us because you know they're damned if they

34:53

do damned if they don't they might as well proceed forward and avoid the personal lawsuits cuz if they won then

34:59

there's no grounds for lawsuits because it shows that we were in the wrong in the first place how can you sue somebody

35:04

an agent for acting appropriately right but they didn't win so that's why then the lawsuit continued on so uh David

35:12

Hardy was not aware of those phone calls that were going to be made because he was really quite happy over the fact that the charges were going to be

35:18

dropped whereas my father said no we have to let this go to court this has we have to have our day in court and so but

35:25

there was balance aside from that but sometimes you know certain things that that had to take place to to guide the course and so by 2011 there was enough

35:35

of a a Chasm between them in relation to what the vision and mission of of the

35:42

whole company the the whole how how we operated um everything uh there was there was conflict as to who we should

35:50

be catering to um what what was our mission what what we should actually be doing who we should be helping that type

35:57

of thing and as such a split took place um where David Hardy and uh and his sons

36:04

and um whoever was involved with that aspect of business would go and attempt to um become more corporate if you will

36:12

where they would now cater to dealing with large corporations and helping us

36:18

you know kind of going into the HR program in getting supplements into very very large M multinational corporations

36:25

to uh you know increase the cognition uh and performance of their staff which

36:31

is really a sound it's a nice business model especially given the studies that we have sure that show that you take Empower plus and you generally become

36:38

smarter your brain starts to work better you're not clouded with all of these emotional issues with these mood you

36:44

know with mood disregulation and all that type of stuff all of a sudden you're operating at a higher level and

36:49

so it would make sense from a business standpoint I know if I was running a large organization I would be making

36:54

sure that that you know based on the knowledge I have that all my staff would be getting the Empower plus even though

37:01

we're paying for it as an organization they're the benefactors in their personal lives we're the benefactors in

37:07

their increased import uh performance and so that's actually you know as you're well aware you know working with

37:12

me that we actually do Supply our own staff with product uh free of charge why

37:18

so that they're healthier so they do better so they have their own personal stories to tell about it as they're they're working in their respective

37:23

roles within true hope but also so that they perform better so really us giving

37:30

that gift we're actually the benefactors as well as them we're joint benefactors

37:35

in the fact that we're supplying that so that's where they wanted to go my father wasn't really wanting to

37:41

divest from what we had been doing traditionally in relation to you know

37:48

specifically working with uh individuals broken individuals broken families like

37:54

what our family had gone through and that's really where my dad's heart was that that's where a lot of us as a

37:59

family that's where our hearts were because we went to it personally right our mother took her life right out of

38:05

all the siblings nine siblings here um or sorry eight of my siblings right um

38:11

so nine of us total we lost a mother and we lost her to Suicide we lost our grandfather we lost him to Suicide um we

38:19

ourselves were struggling with mental health conditions no longer were we struggling with that so that's really where our hearts were was to help the

38:25

end user that you know your your everyday individual right uh rather than

38:31

just specifying our actions towards helping people increase their cognition within a corporate setting right so

38:37

there was a there was a separation that took place um that eventually uh over the months would end up in a full

38:42

division of the business and so we kept the true hope brand we kept the original products and they went on to

38:49

reformulate so that point in time you end up with two entities you end up with true hope maintaining you know the

38:55

intellectual property on on on all the products that we already had and then they went on and reformulated um their

39:00

own products and all that type of stuff and um you know went went down the road that they're they're going down right

39:06

and so there's a split and as such there's major uh shifting taking place

39:11

in the business we had been establishing at that point in time the retail

39:16

division which is all the bottles that you see uh behind me here um the retail

39:22

division that was going to then start working through health food stores because at this point in time we weren't working through health food stores in

39:29

fact a lot of the battles that we had taken on in the previous decade um like

39:34

the the bill c51 wasn't going to negatively impact us as much as it would the standard manufacturer out there and

39:41

the standard health food store owner and we had no business with them like legitimately we had no business with

39:46

them we were selling direct a consumer out of the states and so as long as the product was allowed to flow across the border still there was no issue for us

39:54

but we just saw what was going to take place in relation to the removal of Rights and so we took a stand for it um

40:00

because we had already had our rights compromised in the past and we we we had no tolerance for it if you will but now

40:07

here we are uh you know 2010 2011 we're starting to to lay the groundwork for

40:12

the retail division to get it into health food stores by 2011 we're starting to rule it out so that's when I

40:19

started traveling um initially I was playing a couple roles uh because at that point in

40:25

time I had been um uh you know doing uh marketing um sales training and that

40:31

type of thing within head office I shifted roles I've been doing video work for many years at that point in time and

40:38

I thought you know what I need to get back into a sales role I need to to I need to you know talk with people I need

40:45

to work with people rather than work behind a computer or or find myself behind a camera right so I I started to

40:51

to play that role for a few years at that point in time and so I started to play a dual role where I had a

40:57

an office out of head office um for you know overseeing all the marketing which

41:03

at that point in time we hadn't really been doing any marketing there was no marketing department until I established it in I think 2009 or 2010 I established

41:11

a marketing department up until and we had no marketing department everything that all

41:17

of our business all the advertising was done over the fact that the news would cover us every time a new study would

41:24

come out they would cover it and so all of a our we're getting a bunch of an influx of people phoning us or the

41:30

Discovery Health documentary which came out in September of 2002 that was put into 50 different countries translated

41:35

into multiple languages that was really our marketing and it wasn't ours it was

41:41

merely the news and uh broadcasting companies sharing this incredible

41:48

Discovery but unfortunately a documentary only has a certain shelf life eventually it wears off and they

41:54

they stop playing it and unfortunately um things would begin to

42:00

shift with the news as well at around the year 2010 so at that point in time I'm

42:06

playing two roles I'm traveling as well as I'm in head office when I'm not traveling and um and so it was kind of

42:14

kind of a fun little you know one leg on each side of the fence working with corporate uh chop corporate as well as

42:19

the retail division as we you know we're seeing if it's even viable to get it out there and obviously as you can see today

42:26

um it is viable and we've got you know six products now six life-changing products that are available in retail

42:32

stores um and eventually we're going to continue to roll out more but not too many more only the ones that are the

42:38

most potent and uh life-changing but it was a real interesting time if you will

42:43

a lot of shifts um a lot of tumult um really a a Reformation if you will being

42:50

that we just lost you know half of our team players um to um Hardy nutritionals

42:56

being established yeah it's an interesting split that the company took and I totally understand

43:01

Anthony's perspective and what on going forward and where his mission and his his goals come from obviously from the

43:08

from the tragic beginnings of true hope and how David Hardy wanted to take in a different direction I think that there's

43:14

probably a very healthy split between the two of them and they had such a great relationship um and very

43:20

interesting that like before you true hope even had a marketing department all

43:26

the marketing was done by the media who was clearly interested in these wonderful wonderful um studies and

43:32

research and stories of people taking Empower plus and recovering from very

43:38

very serious conditions because that's unbelievably newsworthy and then yeah you say 2010 something shifted within

43:44

the media and the studies weren't being um publicized on the TV anymore

43:50

researchers weren't being interviewed very very interesting how how and why that that shift happened

43:57

and it's 2012 when a a really great um study comes out from the University of

44:03

Canterbury which I'll bring up now for you if you want to take us through this this is this is this is research done on

44:09

um PTSD and earthquake survivors which is very interesting I'm just going to

44:15

bring this up now for those who are watching you'll be able to see

44:20

this it's titled shaken but unred yeah David if you want to take us through this a little bit this research paper

44:27

which um yeah as I said was done by I think the lead researcher there is Julia

44:33

rage and um yeah don't take us through this yeah so this is an interesting one it's it's a first of a of its kind study

44:40

um and the reason being is that you can't so easily predict when an earthquake is going to happen and it

44:46

takes time typically for all the protocols to be established for a study getting all the resources available and

44:53

so this really happened kind of serendipitously if you will that Jia ruckledge out of uh the University of

45:00

Canterbury out of Christ Church New Zealand was getting ready to do a double blind control trial on the Empire

45:07

plus when the earthquake happened in February of 2011 if I recall appropriately and now this was a

45:14

devastating earthquake many people remember this especially if you lived in New Zealand you would have remembered this especially if you lived in Christ

45:20

Church um it devastated the place there was a lot of uh destroyed infrastructure

45:25

uh there was nobody that city that was left unaffected it impacted every

45:31

everybody in in so many aspects of life and now it wasn't just a single

45:36

earthquake though because the problem is is that it was almost every day thereafter for quite some time there was

45:42

aftershocks tremors so now imagine this imagine you just went through a traumatic event that literally like just

45:50

tore down buildings around you and stuff like that and you survive it but your life is just like broken in a sense and

45:56

everybody having to find themselves in a rebuilding state so you have the initial trauma but then imagine you have that

46:03

reminder every day and you're thinking my golly like is this going to be the next earthquake and and then there was

46:09

there was another one not not too terribly long after another about 7.0 and so now they're living in this

46:16

situation where it's just like continual reminder of Devastation and on edge of

46:22

thinking is there going to be a bigger one that's just going to just finish everything off right and so this is a

46:29

situation that a lot of people are living in right according to Julia ruckl she's talking about it she's living there she's living it herself so she has

46:35

a study ready to go so what she does is she has all the protocols everything in place ready to execute the study she

46:42

morphs it she shifts it over to be uh a post- earthquake study to study the

46:48

effects that nutrition has on people that have just gone through um a cataclysmic event right to see how they

46:56

do if on nutrition versus not on nutrition and what she found was really astounding right just to kind of sum it

47:02

up to break it down um those that were on the uh the the Empower plus uh found

47:08

that they had far less stress less anxiety less depression all these things that would naturally accompany this type

47:15

of situation they did much better than those that didn't have the empow plus um

47:21

and then I believe she did a comparative analysis in in this particular study where she used another product that was

47:26

coming from bear uh bear you know Pharmaceuticals well they had purchased this multivitamin uh supplement um

47:34

called baroka and the baroka uh was already proven to be quite beneficial

47:41

for stress so she had access to that so she was studying some people on that

47:46

particular supplement um and bear had actually come out with the statement

47:52

saying out of everything we have like this is our most effective treatment for stress and it's multivitamin mineral and

47:58

here bear has all of these Pharmaceuticals available and yet um their multivitamin is is the best and so

48:06

she did a comparison and what she found is that while people were in the study they were more than twice as likely to

48:12

report the positive findings on the Empower Plus versus the Bears baroka and then after the study and this is a huge

48:20

telling Factor right here that those that were on the empow plus were five times more likely to continue taking the

48:26

ow Plus versus those that were on the Bears baroka now that tells you something because now they're purchasing

48:32

out of pocket they're continuing on with it after the fact and so they clearly

48:38

observed the um significant life changes from taking the empow plus through um

48:45

the rebuilding stages after a traumatic event and so really quite a phenomenal

48:51

study if you will that should have generated the attention of a lot of people and it's a very incredible study

48:58

um and then it would be replicated a couple years later out of high river in relation to a flood that took place well

49:06

here's what's interesting the study comes out it's the biggest best study

49:11

that that has now been done on Empower plus we're excited about it and traditionally the media had always

49:17

covered this type of stuff like you know previous to that in the late 2000s they come out you see you know um you know

49:24

people you know suffering with autism now have you know New Hope type of thing like talking about the headlines like

49:29

this right talking about the research that was done on Empower plus well all we hear is

49:36

crickets nobody's willing to pick it up and this is where gets interesting nobody's willing to pick it up nobody

49:43

seems to want to pick it up either in the alternative news or the mainstream

49:48

media and we're just thinking why like this is like groundbreaking information that yeah

49:55

obviously it it count the pharmaceutical industry significantly so if they're per if they're purchasing advertising

50:02

through um the media or if there's other buyouts taking place if there's other payouts taking place then we might not

50:08

get any any traction into the mainstream media but for the alternative media to avoid it as well even though we had done

50:14

some reaching out is just really shocking because I mean this helps

50:19

establish the need for alternative medicine that your best modalities to get through life storms broken

50:26

relationships losses deaths that type of thing EMP Power Plus and yet no coverage

50:33

and so we were a little shocked by that um but fortunately we had already started our marketing department so we

50:39

were able to do to get some traction with it not nearly as much as as as we

50:45

should have been able to but we were able to get some traction with it and um get it out in front of um you know some

50:51

people that that uh that could really benefit from the evidence that came forward from that in relation to PTS

50:56

stress anxiety depression during cataclysmic events yeah I think if that if this paper had come out a few years

51:03

prior then that there would have been some really big news stories wrapped around it I'm sure I'm sure of that fact

51:09

and I just want to give people a bit of an understanding around what happens in a very stressful situation and obviously

51:14

trauma and stress is different for everybody like the the worst thing that's happened to you or the most stressful thing that's happened to you

51:20

is the most stressful thing that's happened to you as an individual that might be being in an earthquake and losing your house your partner passes

51:27

away or your cat passes away you know like that might be the most traumatic thing to you and your body your nervous

51:33

system primarily is going to switch from a you know let's just say a calm restful State into a stressful Alert state and

51:42

if you're in that state for a long period of time your body is just ripping apart for nutrients and minerals and

51:49

vitamins and antioxidants to function at a higher level because it perceives significant stress in your environment

51:55

and that may be the that may just be the case in some situations but without

52:00

replenishing those ingredients with a with with a product like EMP power plus your body is going to significantly

52:07

struggle and be playing catchup for a long period of time and you can you can consume the best foods in the world but

52:14

like if you're still in that stressful in if you're still in that stressful state within your nervous system you're

52:19

going to really really struggle to get back to like you know a homeostatic um environment you just you know you think

52:26

of these examples of a of a deer in nature and it hears a it hears a twig in

52:31

the in the background while it's Grazing In grazing in the field and it know it switch quickly switches into an alert

52:37

State once it scans and figures out there's no threat there it will just

52:43

switch its nervous system back on and graze and if there is like a let's just say Predator there and there's a Chase

52:48

and the deer gets away that deer will actually Shake itself physically to get

52:54

itself back into that into a normal nervous system environment so it

53:00

can actually continue to graze and it can continue to proliferate in life but

53:06

we as humans were a little bit more complicated than that and we take our stress we take our bad experiences and

53:12

we can relive them over and over again and even if it happened to you 10 years ago and you imagine the breakup or you

53:17

imagine the earthquake your body and brain don't really know the difference between it happening back then and it

53:23

happening in real life so your body will change into a stress into a completely stressed State again your body will just

53:29

rip for these nutrients and these vitamins and again it just makes total

53:34

sense that during this this incredible research what and what foresight from Julia rage who actually think about I

53:41

think about actually doing this in a practical way it makes total sense to me that the individuals that were supplementing and providing their body

53:48

with the necessary nutrients and vitamins and antioxidants to get through a stressful situation just goes to show

53:54

to me that empower plus is a is a staple and and a necessity for most people on a

54:01

daily basis because everyone deals with stress in very very different ways whether that's from a stressful boss in

54:08

your environment or just like lights and WiFi and all these external stresses

54:13

that we do have this the the this stress the body you may not be able to see the frequencies that that come in and and

54:20

you know disregulated the body but it happens every second of every day so it's more more important than ever now

54:25

to to supplement with with with the right product to give your body the

54:31

ability to shift correctly between these nervous systems because you should never

54:36

be in one or the other it's a really beautiful balance and the more equipped you are the more re resourceful full you

54:43

are then you're going to have the ability to have this beautiful dance rather than being in one stressful state

54:49

for long periods of time and we see so many people dealing with that on a day-to-day basis absolutely I love the

54:55

way that you you put that that when we end up in a stressful situation that in order for our bodies to deal with it there is a heightened level of

55:01

production of different uh hormones and neurotransmitters and literally we start ripping through nutrition and the

55:07

problem is that if we don't have the ability to get that nutrition like you were saying that we end up in that state for some time um but it can become quite

55:13

a vicious cycle because if we're still in that state and we're reliving it and we see this oftentimes especially

55:18

accompanying mental health conditions where literally you can't get out of the cycle of reliving it mentally so you're

55:25

actually reigniting that stressful situation every day and your body doesn't know the difference if it's being processed here your body doesn't

55:31

know the difference it responds as if it's in that moment even though you may be reliving a moment from 10 years ago

55:38

boom you've just enacted stress and so now you end up in a vicious cycle unless you can remedy that somehow by putting

55:46

in a a a substantial amount of nutrition like we do with the Empire plus initially typically loading dose boom

55:53

symptoms go away people start feeling better their perspective changes their thought processes change and all of a

55:59

sudden they can live less stressful because they're not sitting there ruminating on these issues over time and

56:06

and there's one thing that I love to talk about as well is when we're talking about trauma often times seen this

56:12

numerous times I I I don't just say trauma I generally will accompany that

56:17

with perceived trauma because here's what's interesting going back to it we can concoct something in our mind or we

56:24

can misperceive a particular situation and actually induce trauma within

56:31

ourselves and our body doesn't know any different and it's all based on a misconception and then as we sit there

56:38

and cycle over and over and bring that memory up over and over and over we will

56:43

actually begin to morph that memory to turn an otherwise maybe even normal or

56:48

just simple misunderstanding situation into a traumatic situation seen it way

56:54

too many times especially when we're stuck in a stressful mindset and we're not seeing through through eyes clearly

57:00

if you will or or a clear perspective there are a lot of people out there and and this is not to inval invalidate

57:05

people but there are a lot of people out there that are actually living um in a state of perceived trauma uh living with

57:13

PTSD from a perceived event that actually didn't take place the way they think it took place it's really really

57:20

quite interesting to see but once we are able to pull ourselves out of that situation once we're able to get our

57:26

minds clear we can re-evaluate and often times people realize whoa the way I

57:32

viewed the world that's not the way that the world is the way I viewed this particular individual I vilified them

57:37

but yet in essence they were acting like a saint to me they were actually you know one of the best blessings I had in my life and yet I vilified them through

57:43

my mind uh through my thought processes and sitting there right so that's one one aspect of this and we and nutrient

57:51

deficiency will help fuel that particular situation because now the

57:56

mind gets a little bit into that vicious cycle and there needs to be an injection if you will right um an external

58:03

injection of all of a sudden an abundance of nutrition and it pulls them out of it suddenly they're producing

58:10

adequate levels of dopamine and serotonin and you know the paranoia is gone or the depression's gone or the dark feelings which obviously will will

58:17

uh manifest you know everything you view is now through a dark lens because of that that particular situation you find

58:23

yourselves in so it's very important to to recognize that nutrition is what helps carry us through and helps keep

58:29

our minds clear while we navigate through the storms of life otherwise we may find ourselves in a situation that

58:36

we're reliving in our minds and it's not helping us and it's maybe not even entirely true to form absolutely and

58:43

just when you talk about Nutri nutrient deficiency there it makes me think think of the times where I will have a an an

58:50

anxious thought or a depressive thought and the times where that thought will

58:56

manifest into an emotion for me which will change my physiology that's times

59:02

when I am 100% nutrient deficient when I've either not taken my supplements or

59:07

I've overdone it in the day nine times out of 10 when I have like an anxious or depressive thought it will just it will

59:13

just it'll just stay there it'll stay it literally the way I imagine it it stays in my mind as a thought and I'm able to

59:18

process it because I literally have the ingredients within my brain to deal with it in that moment but when I'm nutrient

59:24

deficient that can manifest itself into a deep emotional state for me and you

59:30

know we I think we've all experienced the state when a thought turns into an emotion and it changes your physiology and it's it's really really powerful the

59:37

the power of thoughts and if you don't have the requisite nutrition within your brain and body to let's just say deal

59:44

with or digest or um handle the inevitable anxiousness or depressiveness

59:50

that comes up comes with just being a human being yeah if you don't have the resources available on a daily basis bis

59:57

sometimes a few times a day you might need to take something depending on on your on your circumstances um yeah two young kid so I

1:00:04

need to keep up with my Empower plus constantly yeah it can it can things can spiral out control very very quickly and

1:00:10

when we're talking about we're talking about trauma and the the amazing earthquake PTSD

1:00:16

study I feel for a lot of people when they have a a quite traumatic

1:00:22

event they struggle for a long period of time after that and that event will lead them into being in

1:00:29

a stressful state for a long periods of time and then they end up becoming just chronically nutrient deficient so

1:00:34

they're not just like nutrient deficient for a day a week or a month after that traumatic event but that spiral is out

1:00:40

of control because they're in the stressful State and anything they consume foodwise is being turned into

1:00:47

let's say stress hormones to deal with all of that and then you end up for people who have like year five year 10

1:00:53

years 20 years they they've been nutrient deficient for that period of time and then we obviously see see during that time symptomology come up

1:01:01

come up for people and then they go to the doctor and they list off their symptoms and they are then labeled with

1:01:07

a pathology and then there is obviously a drug to go with that pathology rather than being like let's hold things back

1:01:12

let's bring things back here a little back to the root of like what might what happened to you a long period of time ago and I'm I'm I'm convinced the more

1:01:20

the more I work with true hope Canada the more that I speak with individuals who who take our products and have their lives changed that the majority of

1:01:29

conditions out there especially psychological is just significant nutrient deficiency and you know it's interesting

1:01:36

you know sometimes it's what came first the chicken or the egg and we we have you know after working with literally uh

1:01:44

as a company we've worked with well over 100,00 people I think we're probably up around more around quarter a million

1:01:49

people now over the last um well we're coming on almost 30 years now um what's

1:01:56

really interesting about that is often times you know we've seen where nutrient deficiency will lead to a mental illness

1:02:03

but we've seen where stressful situations or traumatic situations will actually be the Catalyst for all of a

1:02:09

sudden it's like a door opens and somebody enters into what You' consider to be a clinically diagnosable mental

1:02:14

illness like their life all of a sudden is different right um we were working

1:02:19

with one particular individual earlier on back in the late 90s uh who was struggling schizophrenia for many many

1:02:25

years years and uh my father was personally working with this individual and he actually came to stay at our house for a time and this particular

1:02:33

individual normal life High achiever intelligent individual going to University and literally I mean now he's

1:02:40

in University he's studying he's stressed his diet is probably lousier than it was when he lived at home with

1:02:46

his parents right probably just you know as a single student but he's walking home one day you know under this new

1:02:53

form stress that he's living under and literally it's like he walked right through a

1:02:58

wall and he's now full-blown schizophrenic hallucinations all of it like as as

1:03:05

about as deep as you go into schizophrenia it was literally like a light switch flipped on but it was based

1:03:11

on the circumstances and we've seen this many many times to qualify it where people will end up in these stressful

1:03:16

situations or they'll end up in a traumatic situation and they just never come out of it the same they end up in

1:03:22

with a diagnosable mental health condition and so once again you know

1:03:27

that Catalyst being the fact that you're burning through nutrition under stressful situation if you do not get

1:03:34

that adequate amount of nutrition which you know even if somebody's eating organic today and this one of the things I cover in my presentations is

1:03:40

agriculture has changed so much so much over the last 150 years that we have to be even when we were

1:03:47

making healthy choices we'd have to be eating like six times the amount five to

1:03:52

basically eight times the amount but around six six and a half times the amount amount that our great grandparents would have had to eat to

1:03:59

get the same nutrient value out of the same food that they would have been consuming back then right so you can eat

1:04:04

the same food you maybe they had a spinach salad do you have a spinach salad today six and a half times the amount is what you would have to eat on

1:04:11

average to get the same nutrient value that they would have gotten from one single serving yeah and we just see now like

1:04:18

the the food on offer that people primarily go to is such such nutrient poor food and actually contains so many

1:04:25

inflammatory foods as well like we see these horrific seed oils and canola oil is in literally absolutely everything

1:04:32

and not only you consuming nutrient poor food but you're actually consuming inflammatory food which is going to put

1:04:38

your immune system in your digestive system pretty much your whole body into an inflammatory state right away even

1:04:44

when we think we're nourishing our bodies with with with nutrition so yeah

1:04:49

we're very very far removed from the nutritional circumstances in which the human body is supposed to Drive quite

1:04:57

remarkable but um we're going to shift gears a little bit here on this true hope timeline um things you know after

1:05:03

that University of Canterbury um research is shared in 2012 again the media doesn't cover this

1:05:09

because there's this clear shift in that 20110 2011 12 era um but things shift

1:05:15

within true hope and things shift very much for you specifically within your family so I think we're around February

1:05:22

2012 now within the within the timeline can you take kiss that yeah for sure so

1:05:27

by about this point in time it had been just over two months since I had

1:05:34

stepped out of my position as the director of marketing for True hope corporate and I went completely

1:05:39

satellite um moved about an hour away from head office and was solely working

1:05:46

with uh the retail Division and spending a lot of time on the road about three to four days a week um every week and just

1:05:55

building this business getting it getting it off the ground right and February rolls around uh we're settling

1:06:02

into you know the new house that we were in um whatnot um out in the boonies

1:06:08

we're out in in rural Alberta about half an hour from the closest town that has any

1:06:15

amenities and um something happens you know when I mean we're really

1:06:20

dovetailing off of this um tragedy trauma trauma aspect uh because I ended

1:06:27

up going through um the most traumatic event that I ever went through in my

1:06:33

life and and I and I had been accustomed to loss in my life and and and Trauma um

1:06:38

you know losing my mother at the age of 10 uh was significant significant but um

1:06:45

now the tables are turned and um it goes you know in a bit of a different

1:06:50

direction that as a parent you know basically the worst thing that could ever happen to you um takes place so

1:06:57

February February 27th it's a Monday uh of 2012 rolls around and at that point

1:07:04

in time I had still been going in for the odd meetings into true hope uh corporate so we're driving back an hour

1:07:11

to where we had once lived and I'm taking my wife and my two sons with me

1:07:16

and the reason being is I drop them off at the at the school and there's this really fantastic parent

1:07:23

preschool um uh resource available to them that they're that they're accessing

1:07:28

and and we're not we're not public schoolers we we homeschool but in in relation to this it was really fantastic and it was really empowering for the

1:07:34

mothers uh the person who was heading this up um was really well educated in

1:07:40

relation to understanding children on a very deep level and was empowering the

1:07:46

mothers to to be really better parents if you will and so we're taking I'm dropping my wife off at the school with

1:07:54

my two sons with e who at that point in time is four years old and with Ezekiel who is you know a year and a half old

1:08:01

and I'm going and I'm meeting at at true hope um with my father and with the executive team and then you know I'd go

1:08:09

after the meeting and pick up um my wife and children again my two sons and we would then go to Left Bridge and do some

1:08:15

shopping right because we live an hour out from that so it made for a perfect full day um event for us and so anyways

1:08:23

um that particular day before I got back to school to pick them up my wife had phoned me while I was still at the

1:08:30

office uh because they were my meeting went a little bit longer than than their parent preschool had gone and she phones

1:08:35

me and just says oh you know like Ezekiel is getting sick which is out of the norm right like our kids would get

1:08:41

the sniffle sometimes they put themselves to bed a little bit early wake up next day you know fine so she

1:08:48

she tells me that eel's coming down with something and and so I go and pick them up um no earlier than I normally would

1:08:55

have but you know my meeting concludes and I go pick him up and we go to go to Lethbridge and Ezekiel is you know like

1:09:02

uncomfortable right and he's actually crying um and he's starting to develop

1:09:07

this this barky cough and uh and so anyways it by all indications appears to

1:09:14

be cro and so um my wife does some quick we

1:09:20

we only go to one store that day while I stayed in in the vehicle with with Ezekiel and Ezra and she goes grabs some GR and we end up going

1:09:27

home well I continue on with my business traveling and all that um and Ezekiel

1:09:34

goes through the cou as you know and and by all indications you know like four days of it um solid um it appears to be

1:09:41

C and so he goes through it and he comes out of it uh by about the weekend and

1:09:47

you know things seem to be fine and so the next week same thing um I go to um

1:09:57

actually my wife no my wife and I were leaving the house at the same time but I was going to True hope to um the meeting

1:10:05

um and then heading out to Lloyd Minister from there up North for a business trip but so my wife was packing

1:10:11

up at the same time I helped her get everything ready and we both left but we left in separate vehicles because she's going to be going home and I'm going to

1:10:16

be heading um all the way to uh Lloyd Minister and so anyways they go to parent preschool again so it's a week

1:10:24

later and Ezekiel isn't 100% better as is you know pretty normal like you know

1:10:29

one of these sicknesses will last five six days but then you'll have a little bit of residual and so here we are we're now on day seven and he's not 100% but

1:10:35

he's back at parent preschool playing and he'd been to church the day before and that type of thing and so anyways I

1:10:41

go on this business trip and it takes me all the way into far well not far but

1:10:48

you know what what's considered Northern saskatchwan you can't go far Northern saskatchwan without hitting the Canadian Shield and there's nothing up there uh

1:10:55

even roads really um but we go into Northern Saskatchewan Northeastern Saskatchewan so we're we're quite a

1:11:00

distance from from my house and we're doing this business trip me my brother for a few days and and we're on our way

1:11:05

back and um the day uh before I'm heading back uh my wife phones me and

1:11:12

just says hey I think he's actually getting sick again okay like with what right she couldn't really identify it um

1:11:19

but it just seemed like he's just you know taking a bit of a downturn okay but he's not crying out in pain or anything

1:11:25

at that point in time like the first the worst day was actually the first day when he first started coming down with the cou that's when like as a parent

1:11:30

you're looking at and saying he's visibly uncomfortable he's crying whereas other than that he's just enduring it right so anyways I get home

1:11:38

on Thursday because we were on our way home anyways and I picked up some remedies and all this type of stuff just to help with the immune system and I get

1:11:45

home on the Thursday and I look at him about midday and and I said well looks like he's getting the flu like he when I

1:11:50

walked into the room he's sitting up upright on the bed and he's watching a cartoon and and I'm like but based on

1:11:56

the way he's posturing himself I'm like it looks like he's getting the flu he looks achy like physic physically just

1:12:02

looks uncomfortable like that achiness that you get when you get in the flu and so that's what I thought so Friday rolls

1:12:09

around and you know nothing remarkable for changes but he seems to be getting a little bit better Saturday rolls around

1:12:15

he seems to be getting even better Sunday rolls around and we're contemplating do we take him to church not to not to church what do we do right

1:12:20

here right anyways Sunday night rolls around and he starts to take a turn

1:12:26

again and he's visibly uncomfortable and my wife stays up with him and um at this

1:12:32

point in time she's four and a half months pregnant and this is relevant in just a moment but um so anyways I go to

1:12:39

this on the Monday morning I sleep in the spare bedroom because I'm going to be up earlier than everybody else I'm

1:12:44

preparing to go to a um a County council meeting in relation to a bylaw that my

1:12:51

brother and I were heading up this movement against this bylaw the Emer Mery management act which really um

1:12:58

removed in the state of an emergency all of your rights other than your right to life that was the only thing that was not draft into the bill but everything

1:13:04

else your right to your your own uh conduct because they can conscript you you know whether that be into a labor

1:13:10

camp or whatever to help with the emergency uh your property real or not prop or not real property right so your

1:13:16

vehicle's gone your house oh that's perfect we need it for the Emergency it becomes a staging ground whatever it may

1:13:22

be it was the martial law bill is what it was the only thing it didn't write in there is that they could um remove your

1:13:28

life if you if you opposed right but you can go to jail if you opposed so anyways we went and we fought this bill and to

1:13:35

get this thing off the books we're good people out here this whole County when an emergency Rises out of the goodness

1:13:41

of the of our hearts we unify and we work together get this piece of junk off of off of the books now we don't need

1:13:48

the government coming in and telling us what or how we should be doing and interfering with the process um get it

1:13:54

off the book now right like this is fully tyrannical so they did we won I

1:14:00

come home at about noon absolutely ex excited about the fact that we just actually won and that uh that there was

1:14:06

standing room only about 300 people showed up um actually in fact I think there was a there's a news clip that we

1:14:13

have on that is there not there certainly is let's play that right now sure for joining us Cheryl is off

1:14:20

tonight it was standing room only in Cardston County council chambers this morning as hundreds of Southern albertans voiced their opinion on a

1:14:26

controversial bylaw it comes following a Facebook and written campaign to raise awareness about the County's Emergency

1:14:32

Management plan one that some residents say violates their fundamental freedoms Shannon Greer now with more on the bylaw

1:14:38

and Council [Music]

1:14:44

reaction tempers flare as Southern albertans raise both their voices and concerns to Cardston County Council

1:14:51

about a controversial bylaw it infringes upon our very very based fundamental

1:14:56

rights and freedoms and Liberties as human beings Council making the decision to repeal bylaw 562 saying they're going

1:15:04

back to the drawing board to come up with a new plan before taking it to the public something residents say they

1:15:10

couldn't be happier about the meeting was uh wildly successful in the sense that uh the fight for Freedom uh

1:15:16

received a huge Victory councilors say they expect to bring the new bylaw forward within the next month or so

1:15:23

Shannon Greer Global News Cardston counselors say it was great to

1:15:28

see such a big turnout and our pleased residents are taking part in the Democratic

1:15:33

process so this end up making headlines like it end up you know Alberta wide

1:15:39

radio shows and stuff like that uh started discussing it I think it's a Dave Rutherford show was discussing it

1:15:45

and they were trying to bash on what we were doing um our next uh step I mean we

1:15:51

are taking taking it on in the municipalities around us we're going to go take all on and then we were going to go at the Province because it was being

1:15:57

coming coming down through the province so that was fully what we were anticipating on doing and the media was was not like that that that media

1:16:05

article did not actually depict how heated it was I don't know why they pulled the certain clips that they did

1:16:11

because they were lousy like it started off really lousy and dismal there were some really powerful moments uh uh that

1:16:18

would have highight the vital and the anger that the 300 people had they you

1:16:25

know they had way too many people show up they could not put it in the County Council County Council room so they actually put us into a mechanic shop and

1:16:31

that's why they the makeshift table set up and stuff for the county councilors um it was it was absolutely heated and

1:16:38

it sent a message um and it became discussed in the Alberta legislature and we were about to take it to the province

1:16:46

but unfortunately uh we wouldn't ever get there um even with with all of the

1:16:51

forward movement because Monday rolls around that's that's on a Monday Monday morning that

1:16:58

happens Monday about noon I come home with the good news for my wife and my wife is not happy now remember she's

1:17:05

four and a half months pregnant she's sleep deprived because she stayed up with Ezekiel the night before and so she

1:17:12

says to me because now I have to go to a meeting at true hope because we postponed the regular morning meeting that we'd have on the Monday for this

1:17:19

particular meeting now we're going to go to meet at trop and so um she says you

1:17:24

know he's she that's when she informs me that he had a bad night and she says do we need to take him to the doctor and I

1:17:30

said well like I went and looked him and I don't I don't see a need like I don't like he's not he's not vomiting um he's

1:17:38

not he doesn't have diarrhea he has no signs of infection like there's nothing going on outwardly he looks

1:17:44

uncomfortable like you take him to the doctor and what are he gon say well he's uncomfortable like how do you what do

1:17:51

you diagnose him with like that that that was my concern is that he's not severe he's not severe enough like yeah

1:17:56

I get it you're four and a half months pregnant yeah you're sleep deprived you're not happy um I wasn't around this

1:18:02

morning to help out when when typically I would have had you had a bad night and so she says you know I'm G to Call the

1:18:08

Midwife because we're seeing a midwife at that point in time but the Midwife at that point in time is a practicing nurse

1:18:13

nine years in the emergency room at that point and I'll see if she can come out early because she's supposed to come out this week I'll have her come out early

1:18:20

and take a look so she does and while I'm at the trop meeting and she comes

1:18:25

and takes a look and she brings her stethoscope she brings her blood pressure monitoring equipment and all

1:18:30

that checks out all of his vitals all of his vitals come back normal nothing wrong and and listens to his breathing

1:18:36

nothing nothing wrong so nothing like he had with with the cou and here's where

1:18:41

it gets unfortunate because um she states um

1:18:48

well let me back up here about two to three weeks previous to this to to her visiting there was a case of menitis had

1:18:56

come in that she had dealt with and so it's it's on her mind right now at that

1:19:03

point in time you you you say men to me I'm pretty educated in relation to Natural Health but men what like I I

1:19:08

don't know what that is right like okay I've heard the term but I actually don't know what it is so she makes mention to

1:19:14

my wife about well maybe you want to look into menitis not because of any particular set of symptoms but because it's fresh on her mind and she can't

1:19:20

identify by looking at him there's nothing that stands out right that that's going on so she makes mention of

1:19:28

it and this would set the stage for a disastrous

1:19:33

situation um she recommends that we get get them onto electrolytes we do we

1:19:39

start them on electrolytes that Monday evening and he has a good sleep that Monday night sleeps well wakes up in the

1:19:45

morning we had some lawyers papers that we had to go sign in relation to a real estate deal that we just sold our house

1:19:51

in the previous town that we lived in and we didn't know like if if we defaulted on that what would happen or

1:19:56

what not and so my wife and I are debating back and forth do we take him the L do we not he's already progressed this is good do we want to potentially

1:20:02

compromise that progress by taking in a vehicle and we did we opted let's take him in the vehicle let's make him comfy

1:20:07

in there whatever and so we did and we said while we're there we might as well go to the naturopathic doctor and just

1:20:14

get some immune boosting tincture just to continue on with the progress so that he gets better that he's up and running

1:20:19

in a day or two or what however that looks well by the time that we left Lethbridge um I had fallen asleep in the

1:20:25

back of the vehicle with him while my wife was uh she dropped by U the superstore real quick just to grab a

1:20:31

handful of groceries I fell asleep and he woke me up playing with my lip doing the little flip you know that type of

1:20:36

thing right and so now you know okay you're you're you're not just consumed with yourself he's becoming a little more playful whatever that's cool anyway

1:20:43

so we get home and he goes down for a really restful nap now at that point in time there was no display of discomfort

1:20:48

or anything like that but before he does so he drinks on his own accord about a cup of this electrolyte drink right okay

1:20:54

so great my wife at that point in time I I said he look like she was going to not go to this church event I said just go

1:21:01

he's fine like look he's like tomorrow he's probably gonna be up and running like everything's fine like he's fully

1:21:07

relaxed he's chilled out he just you know he's hydrated like all because he just drank all that that the electrolyte

1:21:12

drink he's doing great so she does she goes to this church event but then

1:21:17

something happens I know that that I want to show up too much time because I could literally go on you know for an hour on this just CO's note version he

1:21:24

wakes up from his nap and I'm the only one there with him um and my four-year-old son is off playing somewhere at that point in time and um

1:21:33

actually I think at the point time I just put him to bed my son wakes up uh Ezekiel and um and he's got this

1:21:39

breathing pattern and it's curious to me I can't I can't make heads and tails of it I can't tell whether it' be concerned

1:21:45

or not but he's got this breathing pattern and my wife phones it around the same time just a checkup she does that

1:21:51

regardless um just see how's the kids right is Dad actually taking taking care of him right and so she phones and um

1:21:58

says how's he doing I said well he's fine he woke up from his nap I gave him some more fluids said but he's got this like Curious breathing pattern right but

1:22:05

he seems fine like he's cognizant and everything like everything's fine like I don't know what it is it's nothing like

1:22:11

the cou um but it was just curious to me because it didn't come with any other concern surrounding it everything else

1:22:17

seemed normal with them and so um he goes back to sleep my wife comes home

1:22:23

from from uh her activity she decided to when I said that um not because I raised any alarm but it was basically the end

1:22:29

of her activity anyways this church activity so she came home and and and so we're observing them while he sleeping

1:22:34

soon like what do we do like what is there any do we need to be concerned what is this and before we had a chance

1:22:41

to really analyze over the next 15 20 minutes um to determine do we take him to the doctor like what like we just

1:22:48

don't know he rapidly um uh

1:22:55

digressed um and just went into like to

1:23:01

the point that he's struggling to breathe and at that point in time I phone my dad and say hey look uh we're

1:23:06

going to take him to the hospital just so you know um you know can you pray for us type of thing and

1:23:12

and anyways as I'm on the phone he stops breathing and I'm like Dad I gotta go I got a phone 91 my dad's panicking

1:23:19

whatever and I I got to go so I get on the phone with 911 and by the time I I

1:23:24

get get off the phone with them or by the time I get back from I have to run 75 yards down my driveway to get him an

1:23:29

address I run back I come in the house and he's breathing again and he my wife had patted on his back and gave him one

1:23:36

rescue breath and he coughed up some mucus and fluid and something and he did aspirate on some of the liquids I gave

1:23:41

him and maybe that was what the struggle was I'm like I just pH 911 for no reason right so now I'm feeling embarrassed because I've never pH 911 in my life I'm

1:23:47

thinking what is this right now now I'm in a traumatic situation and my brain isn't isn't operating 100% clearly I'm

1:23:53

thinking what do I do with this right embarrassment he's doing fine what's going on whatever anyway so we we

1:23:59

decided okay hold off on the ambulance we're going to drive him in because an ambulance is half an hour away or or so

1:24:04

we thought so we start to drive him into the hospital after about 20 minutes it took us to get our other son out of bed

1:24:10

and all that and and he's fine he's stabilized and he's breathing on his own we take him into the vehicle we get a mile down the road and he stops breathing

1:24:16

again he ends up in an ambulance um almost all the way to Cardston um we met

1:24:23

up with an ambulance on the highway a few minutes out and we'd find out later on that there was some major issues um

1:24:29

in relation to that ambulance and I won't go into too much detail um but what happens is

1:24:37

um he goes for an extented period of time without oxygen and we're not aware of this at

1:24:43

the time and he gets to the hospital we get to the hospital separate from him

1:24:48

because we weren't allowed into the ambulance and he's fully hooked up on life support he they airlift him to

1:24:55

Calgary and their intention was to get them there get him there as fast as possible and so we're not with him they

1:25:01

told us to go separately so we went home we packed we drove we drove all the way up to Calgary and we're waiting and

1:25:08

we're waiting he's not there we're thinking what the heck like they were supposed to get him there as fast as possible what happened well we don't

1:25:15

actually know what happened and I'll get into that a little bit later on um not today but a different episode

1:25:21

and so anyways what happens is we get there and we wait for probably over an hour before he arrives and we're told

1:25:27

that he's put into a medically induced coma and we're thinking okay they got it under control though they can fix

1:25:34

this well the nurse who um who was also the Midwife um worked out of that

1:25:41

hospital that we took him to she arrived there as well and she had some discussion with with the doctor as well

1:25:48

that she had been there the day before our house and had toess him and everything um and that's when the

1:25:55

menitis narrative became injected because they they didn't know they had no clue now somebody dies from menitis

1:26:02

it's pretty clearcut like the symptoms and everything that lead up to it he didn't have that he didn't have that like you don't just go like look symptom

1:26:09

free for a few hours you're fine whatever and then all of a sudden you have this breathing pattern and you stop

1:26:14

breathing that doesn't it doesn't work that way that's not the way menus works if you're to stop breathing it's because

1:26:19

of the in cranial pressure that takes place from the infection of the the menes to the point that you're

1:26:26

compressing the brain stem and when you compress the brain stem that's what controls all of your breathing and your

1:26:31

heart rate and everything like that that's when you'd end up with a shutdown so you'd end up with a child probably going into seizure that's generally the

1:26:37

case as well as incredibly um painful situation from the

1:26:43

in cranial pressure like the we're talking the worst headache that you will ever have from all that pressure to the

1:26:48

point that you're compressing your brain stem he didn't have it he had none of the manifestation of bacterial menitis

1:26:54

or menitis but that's when the narrative began so he's up at Children's Hospital

1:27:00

in Calgary and he's struggling um on well not struggling he's on life support

1:27:05

for five days so now here we go this is now you know we get there this is all on Tuesday

1:27:12

we get there late Tuesday by actually early morning hours of Wednesday we get there and um we're up we've been up

1:27:19

since 7 o'clock in the morning on Tuesday to go to L bridge to get the paper sign for the lawyer or lawyer

1:27:25

paper signed and we hadn't been asleep yet and now we're in the early hours of

1:27:31

Wednesday at Albert and children's hospital and we're trying to work with the doctors we're trying to figure it

1:27:37

out we're giving them all of the information possible that we have so that they can have a clue as to what's going on because they still can't

1:27:43

diagnose anything he's got a CT scan they rule out menitis with the CT scan

1:27:48

but yet they didn't tell us that they ruled out menitis so they're still asking us about menitis they're saying

1:27:54

there 's evidence of seizures but they can't provide that evidence and that that evidence would never be provided

1:27:59

but they're trying to get us to identify when he would have had a seizure it's like they're trying to build this narrative now we don't for what it is at

1:28:05

that point in time we're extremely sleep deprived and we think that they're just trying to help out and we're trying to help out because we want our son to come

1:28:11

out of there alive and so all of a sudden you know about I don't know six o'clock in the

1:28:18

evening on the Wednesday now my wife hasn't slept at all I think I had a brief nap a brief

1:28:25

nap right so now we're almost you know like we're we're going into you know 36 hours of no sleep and we're informed

1:28:33

that there's going to be an investigation think why is there going to be an investigation like what do we do wrong like really like what what did

1:28:40

we do but we didn't know that anything like this shocked the heck out of us we thought he's going to be up and running

1:28:46

the next day instead he's in an ambulance and he's being airlifted what what like there's going to be an

1:28:51

investigation child family services coming they're going to interview okay really does this have to happen

1:28:56

I've heard the horror stories about child family services really yeah it has to happen doctor says yeah it has to

1:29:02

happen because the death took place outside of a hospital setting so it has to happen okay sure fine 10 o'clock

1:29:08

rolls around in the in the night and there's Child and Family

1:29:13

Services but at the same time we see two police officers also think why is there

1:29:19

police officers here there's almost nobody else in the in the in the PQ here the Pediatric Intensive Care Unit why is

1:29:25

there police officers here and so you know we're we're doing business walking back and forth down the

1:29:31

hall and having to pass them you know they're eyeing us up but thinking what is this like so anyways we go and meet with

1:29:37

child family services and sit down met with them for probably 45 minutes and just laid out

1:29:42

what had led up to that and okay we part ways you know 11 o'clock at night now

1:29:48

there's six police officers in the pediat Pediatric Intensive Care Unit I'm thinking

1:29:55

six police officers two would have done the job unless they're looking to arrest me like what is this why is there six

1:30:01

police officers congregating around the nurse's desk at the Pediatric Intensive

1:30:06

Care Unit and they introduce one of the social workers that works in the

1:30:12

hospital comes and introduces me and they said yeah we're going to need to meet with you but we're working out some jurisdiction issues blah blah blah

1:30:18

whatever by the time midnight rolls around they got the jurisdiction issues um figured out

1:30:25

and we're now meeting with an RCMP officer very nice individual but at midnight right and now mind you we're

1:30:33

we're coming on now not quite to 48 hours of no sleep but almost so my wife goes and sits down with them two o'clock

1:30:41

rolls around 2:30 rolls around finally I'm in with them in now middle of the night right now remember this isn't just

1:30:49

we're now almost 40 almost a full two days of of no real sleep and now I'm meeting with them till 4 in the morning

1:30:56

and I'm I'm trying to be as truthful as possible because I got nothing to hide um and coherent is possible except

1:31:03

that's a real challenge given the fact that nobody in a traumatic situation like that alone coupled with the fact

1:31:10

that I was incredibly sleep deprived would be able to be fully coherent and fully truthful in relation to re uh

1:31:16

relaying what was reality with the the previous situation all up to

1:31:22

that so that lays a groundwork for what would

1:31:27

become a decade Long Court battle which we'll get into a little bit later

1:31:34

here but things persist um you know we I

1:31:41

finally get some sleep after 4 in the morning getting all of that done and over with the next day the child family

1:31:47

services comes back and they want to interview my four-year-old son on his own um by that point in time the social worker out of the hospital had heard

1:31:54

heard what had taken place the night before and the fact that we were with the police till 4 in the morning and she said what do you want me to tell him I

1:31:59

said tell him to take a hike she says absolutely right because she's fully on board like you you parents have absolutely gone through the ringer your

1:32:06

son is on his deathbed they're saying that he could go into cardiac arest at any moment and that they won't be able to resuscitate him and now you have

1:32:13

child family services you know breathing down your neck as well as the police and all like just inhumane um harassment and

1:32:20

so she tells them take a hike basically right so they go away and we never hear anything anything from them again but

1:32:26

now things go on until Sunday so he's been in Alberta Children's Hospital for five

1:32:32

days and they're persistently encouraging us to do organ donation

1:32:40

we're saying why like our goal is to make sure that he's alive and out of here but they're they're persisting with

1:32:45

this like three or four times they come and harass us about it we're like no we're not going to donate his organs that's not where our mind is how do we

1:32:51

get them well how do we correct what's going on he's not showing any brain activity think what the heck well why

1:32:58

not like what's going on here and now we're thinking in our ignorance well what else would have done this but menitis right like maybe he does have

1:33:04

brain death from menitis like how how did this work right like but the symptoms didn't line up with it and that

1:33:09

would be something that I would sit there and think about after the fact and say wait a minute that the narrative it's not fitting right and then we' then

1:33:16

find the evidence in years to come that supported that that they hid from us they hid absolute pertinent evidence

1:33:23

from us um when we get into the courts they they withheld a lot of evidence so

1:33:28

then what would happen is my son would pass away they'd pull life support at about 3 o'clock in the afternoon on the

1:33:34

Sunday and we were just left completely devastated all the hope that we' had looking for a miracle hoping for it it

1:33:41

just you know didn't happen and we're left with so many questions so much

1:33:46

confusion to to the point that immediately and normally I wouldn't be acting that quickly in this type of

1:33:51

situation but I want a closure I wanted the understanding I want to know what happened here so I order an autopsy

1:33:58

report and I'm expecting to get it within about six weeks right so now this is this is March 18th right of of 20 um

1:34:08

12 and I'm hoping that by the time that you know uh May rolls around that I know

1:34:14

what my son passed away from well we're left in just this dark

1:34:20

dismal place and and let me tell you we understood we got to understand uh the need for both spiritual and physical

1:34:26

nourishment and that uh if we didn't keep up with any of them within this situation uh things got really dark for

1:34:32

us really fast it took about a month before I'd return back to work and start traveling again um which

1:34:40

was a bit of a tough situation and I actually end up spending a lot of time with my uh with with Colette and Ezra

1:34:45

coming on work trips with me so the Dynamics changed quite a bit that they would actually come with me so that we'd

1:34:51

remain together as a family and the reason being is that it was just so lonely at home even though there's three

1:34:56

of us there's this silence this deafening silence where you know you

1:35:01

hear your son playing with with little dinky cars and stuff like that your four-year-old son and normally it'd be accompanied with some interchange with

1:35:07

the one and a halfy old son and laughter and whatever it's just silence it's just that you hear the car moving by itself

1:35:13

that's it and you know our wakeup call that we normally get at about 6: in the morning because our our son Ezekiel wake

1:35:19

up before anybody else and he it was it was like clockwork like you you know when he's up because all sudden you just

1:35:25

hear the door go and then you hear and he'd run to the kitchen for some reason

1:35:30

I'm not sure why and then he' run back to our room and then jump in bed and it was like clockwork and and you could

1:35:37

tell he was only on the balls of his feet as he's just cruising down the hallway right just absolutely cute and now

1:35:44

you're not getting that and you're waking up on your own and you're thinking this has got to be a nightmare right like and then you realize no it's

1:35:49

reality your son's gone your son's gone and it just wouldn't go way and and it

1:35:55

it was a very troubling time for all of us right um to to navigate through that

1:36:00

because everybody's schedule is different it's it's it's upset it's it's changed your whole life has changed

1:36:05

there's a void that can't be filled so we're going through this and

1:36:10

I'm I'm seeking for that closure I want closure and it wouldn't be till about the end of November I get a phone call

1:36:18

from the medical examiner's office stating that ezekiel's death was vaccine

1:36:26

preventable now we didn't vaccinate our children I'm thinking vaccine preventable like what was it right like

1:36:32

and they're saying it was menitis oh okay it's menitis bacal menitis vaccine preventable I said what vaccine was it

1:36:39

and the guy said I actually don't know you'd have to um you'll have to wait for the autopsy report to arrive but it's coming said okay thank

1:36:46

you it arrives so you know here we are probably last week of November of 2012

1:36:52

maybe first week of December you know over 7 months after the fact and I finally got the autopsy report in my

1:36:57

hands and there's part of me that doesn't want to open it I don't want to revisit it but I want closure I want to

1:37:03

understand what my son passed away from and I'm trusting that I'm going to get some answers out of this I read it and I

1:37:10

was left with more questions and answers when it started talking about the fact that they had to use um non-clinical

1:37:18

research methodology in order to establish that my son had bacterial menitis that was a red flag for me what

1:37:25

what is that non-clinical research methodology that sounds pretty pretty out there like you know bacterial

1:37:31

menitis pretty clearcut like you should be able to establish that fairly simple especially if you died from overwhelming

1:37:37

bacterial menitis is going to be an overwhelming amount of evidence so I'm I'm I've got these questions but

1:37:44

I'm looking at I'm saying why does the topic of vaccines keep on coming out in just the first few paragraphs within the

1:37:51

first few paragraphs I'm looking at this and saying look I'm trying to use some um deductive reasoning here and saying why why is

1:37:59

that being threaded in there because everything that's written in here is for a very clear-cut purpose why they keep

1:38:04

on threading that back in to establish uh to to over establish the

1:38:10

role of vaccines in this and so I got concerned and I said you know what

1:38:17

they're going to charge us and they're going to charge us and make a vaccine trial out of this

1:38:24

because I can't see any other reasoning as to why that would be within uh the way it's way it's worded

1:38:31

the way it's been placed in there why that information would be in there in relation to this hemophilus influenza B

1:38:37

vaccine because what they found in their non-research clinical meth uh sorry non-clinical research methodology is

1:38:43

that it was they found fragment DNA fragmentation of a form of homophilous

1:38:49

influenza but they couldn't they couldn't tell what type it was why because there wasn't any there wasn't

1:38:54

enough evidence for anything for them to to establish that it was even hopus influenza but they found some DNA

1:39:00

fragmentation but they couldn't tell whether it's hemophilus a or influenza A B C D E or any of the hundreds or

1:39:07

thousands they don't even know of non-pbl but now they're saying the hemophilus influen A B vaccine would

1:39:13

have fixed the situation or prevented it from even arising so I'm thinking they're going to charge

1:39:21

us and January rolles no charges end of January thinking I was

1:39:27

just being paranoid like oh man like that's a last thing that we need after after going through all of this this

1:39:34

garbage like we're still trying to heal from this February rolls

1:39:39

around we come back um second weekend of February we come back to our house we'd

1:39:46

been at a wedding and we see tire tracks in the snow fresh trucks who's been at our

1:39:52

place we see Footprints going to the back of every single vehicle there to the

1:39:58

license plate thinking huh why is somebody looking at my license plates I see a set of prints go up to

1:40:04

the door and back okay so then I walk to the door I see a a card tucked in there

1:40:10

from the RCMP to give them a call now they tried to phone me the week before and I just didn't feel like answering it

1:40:15

I just didn't want to hear what they had to say so I didn't answer and then my my stepmom phones me says Hey the RCP is

1:40:21

trying to get hold of you I said yeah whatever right like if it's that important they'll come and see me whatever well they did attempt to

1:40:27

come see me and so I pull the card out and it says give Sergeant McCoy a call

1:40:32

all right so I give Sergeant McCoy a call out of the Raymond Detachment which is not in our jurisdiction mind you

1:40:38

different jurisdiction that's jurisdiction of true hope so anyways I give him a call and uh he says Hey the

1:40:44

crown has some recommendations now this is about 5 in the afternoon he says Hey the the crown has some recommendations I

1:40:50

said okay said can you tell them to me over the phone he says no come me in person tomorrow I'm like you sure you don't want to tell him over the phone I

1:40:55

just really don't feel like you know sitting on this for the rest of the evening I'd rather just no he says no just come in in tomorrow okay now by

1:41:03

this point in time my wife's had the next baby so now we have little e for him right and at this point in time he's

1:41:09

what is he seven months old approximately and uh so we go in my wife

1:41:17

7-month old baby and myself and we go and we sit in this interrogation room and he had no recommendations Crown had

1:41:23

no recommendations immediately F just supplied us with the charges you've been charged with failing to provide the

1:41:28

necessaries of life and at this point in time I've got a little bit of understanding of Law and I know that that's a pretty serious one but I didn't

1:41:35

know exactly what it was so I'm I'm thinking this is not good my wife starts balling this the Sergeant's gloating

1:41:42

like gloating over the fact that he just charged us I'm thinking what's wrong with this guy like no compassion

1:41:48

whatsoever we lose a child you've got a mother here with her seven-month old baby and you're happy over the fact that

1:41:55

you're charging us and then even going so far as say that you know there's case law you know basically surrounding this

1:42:01

and saying basically we got you and you're going to jail right and this is what he's basically communicating showing that he's more than just an

1:42:07

investigator in it that he has a vested interest in it I'm thinking what is wrong with this guy like this is Twisted

1:42:13

so I get home I check my criminal code and I look at it I look up fing bread necess of life I'm like up to five years

1:42:19

like my goalie this is this is a bad one like this is you know kind like manslaughter or whatever like this is

1:42:25

not good serious and so I'm like okay how do we

1:42:30

afford this what do we do like we need to get lawyers so we fundraised a lot of

1:42:35

had a lot of support in Southern Alberta here set up a big fundraiser big event in a school gym with bouncy castles and

1:42:41

big kids event in in um Memorial of of Ezekiel meanwhile uh you know charging

1:42:47

admission for it all and using that to fund raise to afford a retainer for lawyers because we didn't we didn't have

1:42:54

uh all our money was tied up in assets at that point in time so then we started you know posting quads and um motor home

1:43:00

for sale and all that type of stuff like we're trying to drum up as much money as possible because we know this is not going to be cheap this is a serious uh

1:43:07

like a this is not a case I can self represent on at least that's my mindset at the time so we end up hiring some lawyers we

1:43:16

we the first thing that we were looking for was are we going to have a lawyer that has our back and I'm I'm of the

1:43:22

mindset they're vaccine on this this is going to be a vaccine trial and so anyways we hired two lawyers they were

1:43:29

okay um and then we're like you know what we know that Shan Bley who we've

1:43:35

worked with extensively over the years and that represented true hope well um

1:43:40

has a very similar mindset and you know maybe we should hire him and so I

1:43:47

reached out to him and by October I believe it's October if not month or two give or take um

1:43:53

of 2013 we had hired him and so now fast forward oh now well

1:44:00

first of all in the communication we have with him I said hey Sean I think they're going vaccine on this I'm pretty sure that they're going to make this a

1:44:05

vaccine trial and he laughed at me and he said no he says they can't do that there's no precedent in Canada for them

1:44:12

to do that you don't need to worry about that I'm like okay and the only question that's left in my head is well how do you how how they get a precedent like

1:44:18

surely there has to be something has to be a first case right and so he he's reassuring me I'm like okay well then

1:44:25

what is this about like what the it's not making sense to me like none of this like it just they're grasping at straws

1:44:31

because they got nothing on us like generally those cases and I'll get into

1:44:36

that in probably the next episode but those cases are reserved for negligent parents failing to BR NS of life and all

1:44:43

the evidence like you we're not negligent in fact my wife is like overly doting like Beyond uh so you're not

1:44:51

going to get that out of the evidence and so anyways um we fast forward uh to

1:44:58

June 2014 where we begin to see what this case was actually all about and where it

1:45:04

would go and how they were exploiting the death of my son to remove parental rights all across

1:45:13

Canada and remove medical Choice all across Canada and it would be a

1:45:19

beautiful predecessor to what we would then experience in 2020 2021

1:45:28

2022 and up until now and how this would serve to set the stage and a and a

1:45:36

dangerous precedent that they would be able to exploit on all Canadians and so we get into a

1:45:44

preliminary hearing this is a this is like the first hearing now mind you by the way they gave us disclosure they

1:45:50

charged us in February February 12th 2013 by May we're in the courts and and

1:45:57

the crown is scrambling to get um disclosure to us they weren't prepared

1:46:02

and it was deficient disclosure they gave us 450 pages of medical files we would find

1:46:08

out later on that they had omitted almost a third of the medical files that

1:46:14

told a much different story than what fit their narrative they never anticipated I was going to go to court

1:46:19

because they had me pegged as a free man Sovereign citizen which is interesting because Sovereign citizen is an oxymoron

1:46:25

you can't be a citizen and be Sovereign at the same time but they had me pegged as one of these individuals and they

1:46:30

were anticipating full out that I was never gonna get charged in the first place that they'd have to do it in a

1:46:36

roundabout way and that I'd never show up to any court hearing now I'm showing up to court hearings with with lawyers

1:46:42

and they're having to give disclosure that they didn't have prepared for prepared because they never thought that I would ever asked for the disclosure so

1:46:48

they thought they had a clear-cut case a dirty case with a a deficient story a deficient narrative that would never be

1:46:55

challenged and they were hoping to uh make some serious National media out of

1:47:00

this which we found from the disclosure afterwards in the police investigation um on the heels of mes versus mes which

1:47:07

was the largest Freeman case um that legally that took place with a serious

1:47:14

precedent being established by acj Rook assistant chief justice Rook who oversaw

1:47:19

the Southern Alberta area of the the J Judiciary so he's over

1:47:25

this case he's appointing judges for this case and so now we're showing up to

1:47:31

court and they're scrambling to get us the evidence so now we end up in a preliminary hearing to find out what's

1:47:36

the narrative that they're going to go with what does our defense need to be and so we find ourselves there in June

1:47:42

2014 now at this point in time I'm still struggling to get enough money for the court case so I I set up a fundraiser

1:47:49

the week before and you it was amazing the amount of support that we got we fundraised we

1:47:55

we anticipated going to be $330,000 for the preliminary hearing and we fundraised

1:48:01

$23,000 give or take change right so we end up with all this money

1:48:06

but I'm thinking we're still $7,000 short we're gonna ow Sean we have to pay him we get into this preliminary hearing

1:48:13

actually before we get there I'm just going to quickly digress what was amazing is by the time the preliminary hearing was done um Sean submits the

1:48:21

bill and it was less than the 30,000 it was actually I think within a $100 of what we had fundraised and we said

1:48:26

hallelujah hallelujah like how do we get that close right like we were we're

1:48:31

sitting there in a deficient ingratitude state in a sense say is nice that we got the 23,000 but we need 30,000 and we had

1:48:38

everything we needed I we might have had to throw about $100 out of our own pocket in that very moment um and so

1:48:45

anyways we get into the prelimary hearing and this is where it becomes interesting because now um you we have

1:48:51

doctors and the medic IAL pathologist the forensic pathologist getting up there and they're all regurgitating the

1:48:58

same vaccine narrative they're all focusing in on it as if these doctors were vaccinologists or immunologists

1:49:05

even which NE they weren't none of them are experts in that field they can't actually even um speak authoritatively

1:49:12

to vaccines because they're not properly educated on it and so they're talking about it statistically how they've seen

1:49:19

a major reduction in in homophilous influenza related menitis how it's

1:49:24

extremely rare today because well we just don't see it because of the introduction of the homophilous influenza B vaccine that somehow all of

1:49:31

the other forms of homophilous influenza have gone down as well which is a

1:49:37

absolute blatant lie which we'll get into with our expert evidence in a different episode but they were

1:49:42

absolutely just lying and just trying to pull the wool over our eyes anticipating that we would never get expert witnesses

1:49:48

that would actually contradict and say no this is completely bogus what they're saying is completely opposite to the

1:49:53

truth and here's the stats on it but then we're hearing all of this and finally um Sean Buckley uh stands up

1:50:02

and objects and I'll actually I guess that's on my end here I'll just share that real

1:50:08

quick so here's here's the transcript right here so Mr Buckley our lawyer Mr Le

1:50:15

bren's is the crown prosecutor Mr Buckley Sean Buckley stands up says your honor now this is mid um examination

1:50:22

Direct examination of the forensic pathologist who wrote the autopsy report and wrote all of this Prov vaccine

1:50:28

information in there so now my lawyer Sean stands up and is um objecting and

1:50:34

just trying to get some clarification because this is just a recurrent theme and he's saying what's the relevance so

1:50:39

he says you're honored just because I don't want to get off track I'm not aware that the Crown's theory of the

1:50:45

case is is that you know immunization or non-immunization leads any way to any

1:50:51

liability for this charge okay so how how is the charge of failing to provide

1:50:57

NES of Life connected to immunization or not immunization I could be corrected but

1:51:02

I'm just wondering if we're getting on a tangent and he's interrupted by the crown prosecutor Crown prosecutor says

1:51:09

no that's definitely part of my view in this case in relation to the

1:51:14

immunization aspect okay so then Shan says okay well that's news to the

1:51:19

defense thank you so it's just very interesting because then if we're going to have just so my friend is aware on

1:51:26

the record when we get to a trial it's going to be a very long trial basically on the merits of vaccination will now

1:51:33

become an issue at the trial just so my friend is on notice okay so fortunately

1:51:38

Sean and I had had this discussion beforehand and I relayed that I think they're going this way so he's already

1:51:44

brought to mind so he's able to answer to the fact that we're going to we're going to take them to task on it we're going to challenge the aspects of

1:51:50

vaccination and at that point in time I'm saying saying I'm glad that we hired sha Buckley because almost any other

1:51:57

lawyer we interviewed another lawyer or he interviewed us and said well what would you do in this situation if they ask you if you'd vaccinate your child

1:52:02

for polio right I'm like why are we why are we talking about this this is non-relevant but and he's saying well

1:52:08

what is the answer gonna be I'm gonna be absolutely not absolutely not don't care don't care what they have to say I'm not

1:52:14

going to vaccinate my child for polio right and so he he's bringing that up because he was Pro vaccine and basically

1:52:21

chastising us for the fact that you know that could have been a potential that led up to this because he was aware of the the uh autopsy report that I had um

1:52:28

in my own possession and so I'm glad we hired Shawn because he was willing to to make a bold statement like that that hey

1:52:34

we're going to attack the merits of vaccination so now we see at this point

1:52:39

in time what the agenda is now we know what we're up against fortunately and

1:52:46

that we need to hire expert Witnesses in relation to this now at that point in time uh lunch break comes around Shawn

1:52:53

goes and meets with Mr lebrin Shawn comes back to me after because typically we're eating lunch

1:52:58

together at that point in time but he comes back to me after because it was a little bit of a more lengthy meeting and he says what they're looking to do is

1:53:05

establish a precedent in Canada that if you don't vaccinate as a parent and harm

1:53:10

or death occurs to your child due to something that they deem to be vaccine preventable that you as a parent will be

1:53:16

held criminally liable so now they're attaching criminal liability to your

1:53:21

choice of whether to vaccinate or not to vaccinate and they're gonna they're GNA

1:53:27

they're going to scare the heck out of parents all across Canada while they display us on public trial um before

1:53:33

everybody right so now we know what the agenda is of the

1:53:39

trial and now we would spend the next almost um

1:53:45

actually more than a year and a half we would spend about the next

1:53:50

um 20 months preparing for what was going to be a

1:53:57

very lengthy trial with a very strange outcome um in multiple ways which I

1:54:06

think we'll be covering in our next episode absolutely yeah and what we'll

1:54:12

do is we're gonna that's kind of concludes episode three here so thank you so much for that David I know that's not a an easy topic for you to talk

1:54:20

about and yeah we're coming up to a two hour Point here and yeah we could certainly speak about ezekiel's

1:54:27

situation and and the days leading up to it and around it we could speak for hours and hours about that because

1:54:32

there's so many details but we will cover more of that in part four but I just wanted to make the point here that

1:54:39

this case and we're going to talk more about it in episode four is incredibly important for the freedoms and choices

1:54:46

of parents within Canada um as the as the crown lawyer

1:54:53

told sha that they are they've been looking basically been looking for a case like this where they can basically

1:55:00

blame parents for know not giving the necessities of l a vaccine to to their

1:55:06

child and looking for a presidence to bring this up further in court and it I'm a very skeptical individual myself

1:55:13

and I know for a fact that big farmer has got a huge impact on government and the fact

1:55:22

that that it would be incredible business within Canada for pharmaceutical companies if vaccines

1:55:29

were mandated if childhood vaccines particularly were mandated I know that

1:55:35

there are many states in the US where if you want to go to school if you want to have a doctor you absolutely 100% have

1:55:43

to follow the CDC schedule which I think at this point is like 70 vaccines in 18

1:55:49

years which has gone up from five vaccines I think in like 30 40 years

1:55:55

which is just mind-blowing but it would be incredibly just to put this out there as an idea for people who might be

1:56:00

skeptical who might not be but it would be an incredible business opportunity if

1:56:05

um the Canadian government made it law that they had to consume that that

1:56:12

individuals especially kids had to consume annually certain products sold

1:56:19

by a pharmaceutical company that would be that would double their profits from

1:56:24

20 years within a like it be I can't even fathom the amount of money that that would um absolutely reap on

1:56:32

Canadian taxpayers but it has to be something that's in the Playbook of big farmer because they've been able to do

1:56:37

that in other countries around the world and I just think about this case

1:56:43

as sure it's involving yourself it's involving true hope but this this is this this case is significant for

1:56:49

parents all across Canada and arguably across the world because this this this case would make you know national news

1:56:54

and it's incredibly incredibly important and the fact that the I think this I

1:57:00

think the stupidity on from the face of Health Canada and the crown that they went with this angle with such pathetic

1:57:06

evidence is quite unbelievable and the um the story will certainly unfold in

1:57:11

part four about how how this goes I'm not going to give it give anything away because it's really quite unbelievable

1:57:17

what happens going forward but yeah I think just people need to recognize how important this is for parents within

1:57:26

Canada yeah yeah and there would be a reason why the media would make this such a sensation

1:57:33

internationally um without going into too much detail we'll cover this in the next episode but I mean I was hearing

1:57:38

from people in Australia I was hearing from people in Sweden um that were they they were seeing it in their local news

1:57:45

they were seeing you know my not my not my mug shop but pictures of myself and my wife and there was a time that I

1:57:52

couldn't go into a gas station for about a month without anticipating to see myself on the front page of a newspaper

1:57:58

there um that's just how prolific they made it and yet there was other egregious cases taking place around the

1:58:05

same time of truly failing to provide necessaries of life that included like RCMP officer whatnot busted you know

1:58:11

locking up a child in the basement all that type of stuff and depriving of food and yet that wasn't seeing the light of

1:58:16

day and yet our case was literally being just uh disseminated across the world

1:58:23

and for what reason and that's what we're what I guess we'll cover next time um is the the rationale behind it and

1:58:30

where it all LED um but it was just just phenomenal phenomenal what they were

1:58:36

doing and and yeah with with such a lousy story but they had to trust the media to tell the the the distorted

1:58:42

story so many times that the vast majority of people believed it to be the truth yeah and most people in 2024 they

1:58:49

just have to recognize that there's a incredible relationship between industry

1:58:55

government and media especially in Canada it's like quite remarkable and

1:59:00

we've seen that over the last few years emphasized a million times so be very

1:59:07

interesting to see what happens in part four when we can when we continue this story we're not even halfway through it

1:59:12

and it's just such it's quite the it's quite the Epic Saga it's quite remarkable and I'm certainly enjoying this whole process but we're going to

1:59:19

finish up there that's part three on I'll cut you off I'm going to cut you off for one second there's one there's one perent little piece of information I

1:59:25

think there's probably a lot of the audience that because I know that there's a lot of people locally and whatnot when we got charged they came up

1:59:32

and they say it's just a vendetta they're coming after you because of what your father did to health Canada before right they recognize that I think

1:59:39

there's a pertinent piece of information that that we're going to lose sight on because we're not bringing it up in the next episode but um I had accidentally

1:59:45

screen shared it when we were in the studio beforehand in relation to the fact that with the disclosure we

1:59:53

received Health Canada was prodding around during the investigation um and had been making

2:00:00

inquiries with the RCMP and and the question needs to be asked why is Health Canada taking an interest in the death

2:00:06

of my son and and for what motive right like what what are they going to do with that so that was that was pretty

2:00:12

interesting when we discovered that Health Canada also had their pause in on this so you can only imagine how many

2:00:19

departments are working behind the scenes to try to set a nationwide precedent that's going to change how

2:00:26

parents parent um yeah across the country incredible stuff well we look certainly

2:00:32

look forward to part four but that finishes up part three tragedy strikes again and next week we'll be coming at

2:00:39

you with part four which is titled the nefarious vaccine agenda and everything there will become clear but that is it

2:00:45

for this special series of True of um the true Hope Family files here on true Hope cast the official podcast of true

2:00:51

hope Canada we'll see you next

2:00:57

[Music]

2:01:04

week