Okay,

well,

welcome to the show,

Dr.

Hussey.

Thank you so much for being with us.

How are you today?

I'm doing well.

How are you?

Doing pretty good,

thanks.

I've got my woolly jumper on,

you know,

it's definitely wintertime in the UK.

So I'm just,

you know,

you've got to be prepared for the weather,

I suppose.

That's right.

Yeah,

yeah.

It's a little chilly here too,

in Virginia.

All right.

Well,

it always amazes me that we can even have these

conversations from other parts of the world.

You know,

we're so fortunate to be able to have these

conversations and be able to share ideas and

broaden each other's horizons and just have good

conversations,

good debate about things,

because that's without question when it comes to

2021,

debate and converse is a very,

very important part of our culture.

We need to keep that up.

Yeah,

definitely.

One of the kind of concluding points in my book

is that we need open and honest conversation.

And the biggest problem within healthcare today is

the shutdown of conversations.

Conversation,

the shutdown of discussing different ideas.

And that's a big theme of my book.

Yeah.

That's really cool.

And I've,

I'm aware that both of your books,

we're definitely going to get into them.

And yeah,

that's such a key point.

And it's a bit a big slap in the face to science

is the way that we've shut down debate and

conversation.

And yeah,

it doesn't do anybody,

or maybe somebody,

but it doesn't do us a good service.

Anyway,

why don't you give us a little bit of an intro?

Like a bit of your background and what kind of

led you into kind of the deeper focus specific

area of heart health?

Yeah.

So,

um,

you know,

it all started just like many people,

uh,

in this space,

uh,

with my own personal health journey.

Um,

you know,

I was,

as a kid,

I had,

um,

lots of inflammatory conditions.

I had,

uh,

chronic hives,

had asthma,

had allergies,

um,

IBS,

um,

and lots of inflammatory conditions.

And ultimately ended up with autoimmune type one

diabetes where my body attacked the cells.

I was making insulin in my body and they're in no

longer function.

And so now I have type one diabetes.

Um,

and so,

yeah,

like,

because of all that stuff,

my,

my family and I were kind of dependent on,

you know,

Western medicine and doctors in that arena,

um,

to help us manage these conditions.

And,

and that's the key word though,

is that they were helping us manage them,

not,

not fix them.

Right.

They didn't ever,

never finding the root cause,

uh,

they were,

they were kind of masking the symptoms and,

uh,

with medications and things like that.

And so,

you know,

throughout my,

um,

upbringing and then in college,

uh,

and then after college through my medical education,

I've,

I've kind of been obsessed with finding out how do

I create health?

You know,

how do I,

how do I manage these conditions?

And I'm happy to say that all of them are gone

aside from the type one diabetes,

uh,

that is kind of collateral damage from that

inflammation that I had.

And I'll have that,

um,

forever provided there's a stem cell cure or

whatever,

but anyways,

type one diabetes predisposes me to heart disease

pretty heavily.

So,

you know,

my first book.

I talked about,

you know,

evolutionary reasoning,

why we're so sick as a society,

because that's kind of what I discovered as I was,

you know,

obsessed with discovering what creates health.

And then I've had a,

you know,

affinity for learning about heart disease and the

heart and why it's there and what it does and,

um,

and how heart disease develops.

And so I had a lot of information about the heart

because I'm trying to prevent that myself,

um,

heart disease.

And,

um,

and so I had,

I wrote down a bunch of stuff in a book and so

that's my second book is all about heart health.

And so,

uh,

so yeah,

you know,

I.

Um,

I spent a long time trying to figure out what,

um,

what,

uh,

what creates health and,

and I found a lot of shocking things.

Um,

you know,

when it,

when you look at what conventional wisdom is,

what society says creates health and,

um,

and how medicine looks at things.

I found a lot of things to the contrary,

and I'm sharing them with people.

Well,

that's amazing.

Yeah.

There's nothing quite like a personal journey and a

personal story and a personal connection to,

I suppose,

medicine and the,

and the rest of the world when it comes to

dealing with your own issues and then not seeing

the results that you probably would have expected

from,

you know,

our Western medical system,

which is just phenomenal in so many areas.

But when it comes to what the majority of people

are dealing with on a day-to-day basis,

it massively fails and falls short.

And so many people,

especially come onto the show,

but as you say,

people who are in this,

this,

this holistic healing functional medicine space,

so many people come from that type of experience.

And I was checking out your website today,

and you mentioned on your like intro video there

on resources,

your health.com that you have kind of an

outside-the-box approach to heart health.

So I'd love if you could explain a little bit

more about that,

please.

Yeah.

So,

you know,

if you go to the doctor and you get like,

you know,

a check-up for like a heart screening or whatever,

they're going to take,

um,

you know,

they're going to take a blood cholesterol panel,

um,

a lipid panel.

Um,

and,

uh,

and a lot of what his thoughts are.

To cause heart disease is,

is based on how this panel looks.

But,

uh,

I found that that's,

you know,

not the case at all.

I would say,

uh,

it's got maybe a little something to do with it.

Um,

but it's,

it's not really the best indicator of what's going

to create a health,

um,

or cause heart disease.

Um,

and so,

you know,

they may,

they definitely acknowledge the inflammation is an

issue too.

If you go to a Western medical practitioner and

they,

they acknowledge that,

you know,

um,

uh,

stress plays a role in everything,

but,

um,

but there's this huge focus on cholesterol,

um,

and,

and that's most likely because they have a drug

that can treat cholesterol,

uh,

which are statins.

Um,

and so there's been this idea that,

um,

the cholesterol drives heart disease or high

cholesterol drives heart disease.

And so if everybody,

if people have high cholesterol,

then they can get statin drugs.

And then the recommendation for what your level of

cholesterol level should be,

uh,

has gotten lower and lower over the years as the

pharmaceutical companies have sponsored the lowering

of those guidelines.

So that they can prescribe more drugs.

Interesting.

Yeah.

So there's lots of,

there's quite a bit of evidence for that.

Um,

but yeah,

so this,

this,

this is my outside the box approach is,

you know,

I don't,

I don't listen to all that because it doesn't

work.

Obviously that's the approach that's been taken and

heart disease is the number one killer in the

world.

Uh,

and you know,

heart disease rates continue to rise.

So obviously aggressively lowering cholesterol with a

statin drug or a PCS canine inhibitor or something

like that is not working.

It's,

it's not addressing the issue.

And so my outside-the-box approach is I've kind of

determined that there are three main areas that

people should kind of focus on to try and prevent

heart disease.

And it's not easy.

I'm not going to sit here and say that you,

you know,

it's easy to do these things.

Um,

and,

and that you,

if you do them,

that you will not have heart disease.

But,

um,

when I look at the data and I look at the

research,

like these are the things that seem to be

suggesting that they're,

they're more of a risk factor for heart disease

than just a cholesterol panel.

Um,

and so those three things are,

that are kind of the themes of my book.

And there's also information.

About,

you know,

what the heart is and just understanding the heart

in general.

But,

um,

but yeah,

it's,

it's very,

you know,

I,

I came into this,

you know,

started learning about this before I had any

medical education,

um,

before,

um,

I even really had a college education,

you know,

I started really early.

And so I had no preconceived notions.

I had no,

nothing that,

um,

um,

you know,

biased me in one way or the other.

I was just trying to find information and soak it

all in.

And since I started that way,

then even through my medical education,

uh,

and my master's degree.

Um,

and,

and getting information outside of that,

um,

I've just,

I've never,

I've never ruled out anything.

Like if there's information out there,

I want to read it.

Even if it sounds ridiculous,

I want to,

I want to read it.

Um,

and so that's kind of how I've gotten to where I

am because I don't rule anything out.

I'm very open to all information about the subject

and,

uh,

and what I found is,

is pretty shocking.

So,

yeah,

shocking is probably the right word.

Um,

yeah.

And all we can go with is,

is the data.

And you mentioned about the,

like the classic blood work panel,

looking at cholesterol that I'm sure everyone over

50 is quite familiar with doing.

Why,

um,

you know,

what,

how does a panel like that's traditionally done?

Um,

how does that end up directing a doctor?

Is it always to a drug?

Like pretty much like from the,

from the very limited information that it's actually

going to give you about your cardiovascular health,

you know,

doing that,

doing that panel.

Is it like,

you know,

is that the only real option that they,

a medical doctor could go to,

um,

depending on the doctor.

Yeah.

Like if they're a very classically trained physician

and they practice what they learned in school,

then yeah,

you know,

the it's either a drug or some sort of procedure

operation,

you know,

like a stent placement or something like that.

Um,

yeah,

definitely more imaging for that.

But,

um,

but yeah,

I mean the,

you know,

the baseline cardiac panel,

um,

you know,

they look for that lipid panel,

uh,

and they take the,

um,

probably.

Uh,

you know,

some inflammatory markers too,

because they do acknowledge that inflammation is,

is,

um,

a risk factor for heart disease.

And,

uh,

so you get something like a high,

high sensitivity C-reactive protein,

uh,

and various other markers of inflammation or

cardiac,

um,

markers and things like that.

And,

uh,

but you know,

the main thing that they have,

the main drug that they have is the,

is the statin drug,

which is the cholesterol lowering medication.

So if they see your cholesterol is high,

they're going to prescribe that drug right off the

bat.

Even if it's not,

sometimes it's just like the standard of care for

someone who's quote unquote at risk to just

prescribe a statin.

Like I'm an example,

like I'm type one diabetic.

And,

um,

when I,

when I'd been type one diabetic for 15 years,

um,

I went to a doctor and they said that they tried

to prescribe me a statin just because that's the

standard of care for anyone who's been type one

diabetic for 15 years.

Um,

there's no real data that backs up it; it doesn't

help at all.

There's lots of data that suggests that statins

have lots of side effects.

Um,

so for someone like me who was young,

healthy,

um,

yes,

type one diabetic.

But,

did not have high cholesterol at all,

which high cholesterol is not the cause of heart

disease in the first place.

But,

um,

but for someone like that,

it makes no sense that you would prescribe that

drug,

um,

that has this,

um,

this reputation for causing these side effects,

uh,

in someone who's,

who's,

who's fit and healthy.

Like,

like I was so,

and still am.

So,

um,

so yeah,

you know,

I,

I,

I didn't take it,

but that's just,

that's just the cookie-cutter approach that they

have,

you know,

like it's when all you have is a hammer.

Everything looks like a nail.

Yeah.

Um,

absolutely.

Yeah.

Would I be right in saying that for a lot of

these pharmaceutical companies,

that's their statin drugs,

like that product brings in like consistently every

year,

like the majority of profits.

I believe I read that somewhere recently.

Oh yeah.

Like statins are,

it's,

it's,

it's,

it's usually traded off,

you know,

number one and number two between statin drugs and

like painkillers.

Yeah.

Um,

things like that.

Like those are the,

the,

the two most prescribed drugs in the United States

at least.

Um,

and,

uh,

and yeah,

and,

and the United States takes it's way more drugs

than any other country anywhere.

It's quite insane how many drugs per person like

people take in the U.S.

in comparison to,

let's just say the UK,

like it's wild.

Yeah.

And,

and obviously it's not working,

you know,

we're also the,

the,

as far as developed country skills are one of the

sickest,

you know,

we,

we spend more on healthcare than any other country

in the world.

We take more drugs than any other country in the

world.

Yeah.

We rank like 29th as far as health outcomes.

We are not the healthiest whatsoever.

So,

so this,

this.

Um,

approach to chronic disease that Western medicine

has is,

is,

uh,

extremely lacking.

Um,

and it's,

and it's,

uh,

it's not helping us.

It's not a route to health.

Um,

but don't get me wrong though.

Western medicine can do amazing things in emergency.

It saved my life three times,

you know,

but as far as chronic disease,

no,

it's,

it's lost and it doesn't understand what creates

health.

Um,

and this,

this one,

um,

this one tool that they have,

either drugs or surgery,

um,

isn't,

isn't working out for us.

Yeah.

Again.

Again,

another massive slap in the face to,

to,

to science,

but,

um,

let's move on to some of the common myths about

heart health.

You know,

you,

you mentioned the great statement a second ago

about how,

you know,

cholesterol,

high cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease.

So why don't you tell us a little about some of

the,

the really common myths that,

you know,

my parents are in their sixties,

in the late sixties and,

you know,

I've been a nutrition expert for seven or eight

years and they still like,

don't listen.

To me about like consuming like nice,

full fat,

good,

healthy yogurt.

It's always the light,

low fat flavored stuff.

That's just,

you know,

garbage in comparison to like good quality.

So like,

you know,

how there's got to be some like really common

myths that have been going through the decades year

after year that is literally penetrating the belief

system of large amounts of individuals when there

are,

there is a lot of people out there,

um,

showing the data,

but people don't necessarily always like,

like that.

Like the stats or the truth or something like

that.

So like,

can you just run us through some of the,

like the really common myths that are just like

flat out cookie land stuff.

So I'll,

uh,

I'll,

um,

I'll list three of them here,

but I want to talk about the first one,

which is the whole cholesterol thing,

because the history behind that is quite

fascinating.

Um,

and it really,

it really shines some light on how we got to

where we are.

Um,

but you know,

some of the biggest myths are that cholesterol

drives heart disease and heart attacks.

Um,

that is a complete myth in my opinion,

based on...

and,

and another one is that the heart is the main

mover of blood,

but the main job of the heart is to pump blood

around the body.

That's,

that's not true in my opinion,

um,

based on a lot of research and evidence that I

found.

And then the third one is that all heart attacks

happen because there's a blockage of an artery,

um,

that definitely can happen.

But it's not the case all the time.

And there are definitely heart attacks that happen

without a blockage.

And so in my book,

I try and explain how that can happen.

And it has a lot to do with stress and our

imbalanced stress response,

but let's start with cholesterol.

So,

you know,

so in,

if you look back to the early 1900s,

there was a lot of people who were kind of

figuring out that,

you know,

this high-fat diet kind of thing,

this high-animal-fat diet was actually helping

people.

Um,

there were people like,

um,

William Banting who,

um,

you know,

lost a ton of weight and got rid of all his

health issues when he started getting rid of

processed foods,

um,

and started including more animal fats.

And,

and,

um,

saturated fat and things like that.

And then there's people like George Mann who was

studying,

you know,

hunter-gatherer tribe,

um,

uh,

in Africa and people like Western Price who was

traveling the world and studying hunter-gatherer

tribes and found that,

you know,

they ate,

you know,

full-fat stuff and saturated fat and animal foods.

And,

and they were just not eating the processed foods,

uh,

you know,

the processed sugar,

processed grains,

vegetable oils,

things like that.

Those are the things that were the problem.

So there was a lot of stuff going on like that.

And then in the 1950s.

Um,

heart disease started rising.

Um,

and,

and people were kind of freaking out about it.

They were this new,

it was kind of this new disease.

Because in the early 1900s,

there was,

there really wasn't like a,

a board of car cardiology or anything that was,

wasn't needed.

You know,

there was,

there's maybe a few cardiologists who are interested

in the heart,

but there wasn't this huge cardiology field.

And,

um,

and so in the 1950s,

um,

President Eisenhower had a heart attack and it was

all over the media and people were kind of

concerned about the rising rates of heart disease.

And so they were looking for an answer to what

causes heart disease.

And,

um,

and this one scientist named Ansel Keys gave him

an answer.

Um,

and it was based on some very faulty research,

um,

that,

uh,

that he did,

uh,

research that can't really tell us about causation.

I can only show us,

show us an association between two things.

And,

um,

and,

uh,

he,

he basically found,

or he basically stated that the more saturated fat

and cholesterol people ate,

the higher heart disease they had.

Um,

but again,

it was with some really faulty research and he

actually cherry picked the data,

um,

so that he got the result he wanted.

Um,

and so then when he came up with that theory,

um,

they,

they just started testing it,

um,

throughout the sixties and the seventies,

they started testing this theory.

And it's actually,

when it comes to nutrition studies,

it's actually probably the most tested theory out

there.

Like there's so many studies on it that were done

during this time.

Um,

and,

uh,

studies that would be really hard to do now

because they're very expensive to do.

And,

um,

so there was a study called the Minnesota Coronary

Survey.

There was one called the Diet Heart Hypothesis,

uh,

the Sydney Diet Heart Hypothesis.

There was one in Finland.

There was one in Norway.

Um,

and,

uh,

they all basically took people,

took saturated fat out of people's diet and put in

polyunsaturated fat,

um,

which is supposed to be heart healthy,

right?

This unsaturated fat is supposed to be better for

us.

So they did that.

Um,

and in,

in all the studies that show that the more

polyunsaturated fat people ate,

the higher risk of heart disease,

they had higher risk of cancer.

They had highest all-cause mortality,

they had.

Um,

so it was a complete opposite to what they were

thinking they would find based on Ancel Keys'

theory,

but by the time these studies came out,

the theory had already taken off,

you know,

the front of that,

that,

that,

uh,

that famous Time Magazine article where um,

or or cover where it said the saturated fats bad

and had like a frowny face with the bacon or

whatever.

Um,

like that,

that famous thing had already come out.

The theory had already come out.

There was already a lot of money behind it.

Um,

and so despite the results of these studies,

um,

nothing changed that that was the conventional

wisdom going forward.

And it has stuck,

um,

pretty heavily to this day.

And curiously though,

that the Minnesota,

the Minnesota coronary survey,

um,

one of the studies that did,

you know,

test the saturated fat,

unsaturated fat link.

Um,

it was done.

Ancel Keys was one of the lead researchers on the

study,

but his name is left off the study when they

published it.

And the study finished at some point and it wasn't

published until 16 years later.

And,

you know,

this group of people had the clout to publish it

in a very prestigious journal,

like the New England Journal.

Um,

and,

uh,

instead they,

they publish it in a small journal that nobody

really reads.

Um,

and so this guy named Christopher Ramsey,

and he,

he went back and he looked up the data and he

found that they left out data in the study.

Some of the original data,

when they published a study that left some out,

they publish it in a small journal.

And he went back and he found one of the authors

on the study and he asked him why they left out

data,

why they didn't publish it,

um,

immediately.

And he said,

well,

we didn't get the result we wanted.

Um,

and yeah.

Right.

And so it's just like.

It makes you kind of,

you know,

wonder about,

you know,

research in general and how it's published and that

whole process.

Do we really get an accurate,

um,

portrayal of what the research says on the topic

when things just don't get published,

if they don't want to be,

you know,

that want to be published?

So,

um,

so anyways,

so that's how we got to where we are,

you know,

and,

and,

you know,

but it is coming around as a big movement toward

back toward eating whole foods and including animal

foods for heart health.

And I'm,

I'm a big part of that push.

And,

um,

there was actually a study that came out or kind

of a review article that came out in 2020.

I think it was,

um,

that basically stated that when we review the,

the evidence on saturated fat,

that the,

the,

the cause for concern has been a way overstated.

Um,

and that there's actually,

um,

there's actually benefit when it comes to,

um,

some ailments and,

uh,

especially like stroke and the preventing stroke and

that kind of stuff.

So saturated fat is,

is,

is good for us.

You know,

it's the polyunsaturated fat,

the vegetable oils that are bad for us.

And so that's kind of the history there.

And there's,

and there's more too.

It,

um,

but you know,

that's kind of the,

uh,

the,

um,

over overview of it.

Now that was a great dive into the history,

and yeah,

it all starts at a point,

especially when you talk about President Eisenhower.

You mentioned about heart health,

you know,

when somebody in the spotlight puts in there,

it's almost like an advertising opportunity.

And I wonder how,

I don't know if you know that the answer to this

question,

but like,

how are there any other industries involved with

the demonization of animal fat or saturated fats?

So like,

I.

I just immediately think of the sugar industry,

like how popular that was and how big that was.

And when we start thinking about how we

transitioned from,

you know,

growing food in our gardens in these,

like,

in the early 1900s,

and then we start having microwaves and we have

all this convenient stuff,

you know,

and we start shopping in the middle of the aisles

rather than on the outside,

like how there's gotta be some sort of,

um,

other industry that's looking to profit by

demonizing and giving somebody else bad press.

Yeah.

So,

um,

the main ones I think of are,

you know,

the,

just the grain industry,

um,

you know,

uh,

whether that's wheat,

barley,

rye,

oats,

whatever,

um,

that industry there,

uh,

corn,

corn as well.

Um,

and then,

uh,

the vegetable oil industry,

um,

uh,

you know,

they're very big on,

you know,

polyunsaturated fat is good for you,

you know,

and the reason that it's touted as being good for

you is that it does lower cholesterol.

Um,

because when you eat,

you know,

plant,

when you eat plant fat,

which does not.

Can't contain cholesterol contains phytosterol,

which is,

which is fats meant for plants,

phytosterol versus cholesterol,

which is fat meant for animals.

Um,

then it does like it competes for absorption in

your gut.

And so you absorb more phytosterol and you don't

get enough cholesterol.

You don't get as much cholesterol.

So it does lower your cholesterol,

but the question is,

is that what we want?

And I would argue absolutely not.

We would not want to lower cholesterol.

There's actually plenty of research that shows that

as if we lower cholesterol or the lower someone's

cholesterol is,

especially under a hundred,

the more risk of cognitive decline they have,

the more risk of cancer,

heart disease,

uh,

more risk of,

of,

um,

infection,

um,

all-cause mortality,

all these things.

So cholesterol is vitally important,

um,

for our bodies and we do,

I,

I would never want to aggressively lower it.

Um,

but yeah,

so it's,

uh,

it,

it,

it's interesting,

um,

to,

to see that kind of stuff playing out.

Um,

so,

so yeah.

Yeah.

How,

um,

if you were chatting to somebody who's like 17,

who's just been trying to not eat cholesterol for

40 years,

what,

what,

what,

what,

like the,

three,

maybe three or four things you would say,

like,

it's really important for your body to have

cholesterol.

Cause it's not,

you know,

it's something we produce ourselves.

You know,

our body doesn't really make mistakes.

It's a phenomenal biocomputer,

you know?

So like,

why,

why do we produce cholesterol?

Why we need,

why do we need it in healthy amounts and you

know,

what's,

what's its function.

Yeah.

So,

um,

there's a lot of things.

So you have cholesterol,

like the molecule itself and the molecule itself

can't really travel around by itself because it's

fat soluble and it needs to be packaged up into.

Um,

and so,

uh,

we have these things called LDL,

we have these lipoproteins,

you know,

there's lots of,

there's lots of different ones,

um,

but the most famous ones are LDL and HDL.

Um,

and so LDL is important for like fighting off from

infection and transporting fat soluble vitamins,

um,

and,

uh,

and,

and providing energy to the body because it

transports triglycerides too.

So if we aggressively lower LDL,

we're not going to get those things.

Um,

but cholesterol is also important for like the

molecule cholesterol itself is,

is the backbone for our,

our hormones,

you know,

so we're not going to make hormones very much,

which is why we take statin drugs.

We see sexual dysfunction,

uh,

in some people,

you know,

um,

it's also cholesterol is very important for,

um,

certain molecules that form that are helping to

help ourselves be,

um,

responsive to insulin.

So if we don't make those,

then we get insulin resistance,

um,

which insulin resistance is probably the main driver

of,

of heart disease in the first place.

So not only are we not preventing heart disease by

lowering cholesterol.

We're creating heart disease by creating insulin

resistance with these statin drugs.

Um,

and so there's that there's,

um,

let's see.

I mean,

it's,

it's cholesterol is vitally important for cell to

cell communication.

Um,

it's,

uh,

it's,

uh,

it's,

it's really important for the brain.

Uh,

your brain is,

is,

uh,

has a huge percentage of it.

That's cholesterol and it needs to replenish itself.

Um,

it's,

which is why we get,

you know,

people with statin drugs,

um,

they can see cognitive decline.

Memory issues is the main one.

Um,

so.

So,

yeah,

um,

very,

very important molecule does a lot of things.

Now,

the devil's advocate would say,

well,

yeah,

but if it gets too high,

that can cause a problem.

Um,

and that's what people are worried about.

And I'd say,

well,

actually,

um,

if you look at studies of people with genetically

high cholesterol,

familial hypercholesterolemia,

um,

that they track these people over 200 years,

these families of traits over 200 years to see how

long they lived or whatever.

And when they looked at these people compared to

the average population without genetically high

cholesterol,

they didn't,

they didn't die any sooner.

They didn't die any sooner than anybody else.

Um,

and they said the ones that did die sooner,

it was,

it was more likely because of,

um,

other complicating factors like heavy drinking,

smoking,

um,

you know,

toxin exposure,

that kind of stuff,

um,

that,

that caused these people to die sooner,

not because they had genetically high cholesterol,

but then even more,

there's,

um,

there's studies that have come out recently that,

uh,

show that,

and these are just associational studies.

So they can't really prove anything,

but it's just interesting that when you look at

cholesterol levels in general.

And what levels associate with the lowest all-cause

mortality from anything?

It's that if it's total cholesterol,

it's between 200 and 250,

which is above the range of what they say it

should be,

quote unquote.

Um,

and for LDL,

it's that it's between a hundred and 150,

like somewhere in that range,

which is again,

above what they think it should be.

They want it below a hundred.

Yeah.

Um,

and um,

and so,

I mean,

these are,

these are,

you know,

us units or whatever milligrams per deciliter.

Um,

but,

um,

but yeah.

So,

the,

the,

the,

the levels of cholesterol that showed the lowest

all-cause mortality are actually higher than what

the recommended levels,

um,

levels,

uh,

by the medical profession,

uh,

say it should be.

Um,

so yeah,

pretty,

pretty interesting.

Yeah.

So this,

it just sounds like this complete misunderstanding

of what cholesterol is,

what heart disease is,

the causes of it really wrapped up in quite

insidious,

um,

marketing campaigns kind of like back in the day.

But I also understand,

as you say,

like there was a rise in heart disease.

And they got to find an answer to this,

right.

And it's probably better for the governments or the

medical industry to throw one answer at it rather

than putting their hands up and saying they don't

know,

because,

you know,

the governments aren't really in the habit of doing

that.

So there's probably a combination of both things in

there.

Yeah.

And I,

and I don't think that I choose to believe that

none of it was nefarious,

you know,

like it was,

it's just,

we live in a capitalist society and,

and,

uh,

you know,

everybody's concerned about the bottom line.

And,

and,

you know,

it does get a little nefarious when they,

when the mistakes are made and they don't admit it

or they keep going forward with that mistake

because they don't want to,

they don't want to admit it or cost themselves

money or whatever that that's where it gets bad.

But I do think that,

you know,

people and companies in general,

um,

in the beginning started out with good intentions.

Um,

it's just that,

you know,

when they,

when those intentions,

um,

don't work out or when they make a mistake,

they don't,

they don't admit it in the long run.

And that's,

that's the unfortunate thing.

Um,

so yeah.

Yeah.

I agree.

I think there's,

um,

a lot more of a level of incompetence rather than

malevolence with these type of issues,

but we'll,

uh,

we'll move on from there.

What's kind of like the primary important truth

about,

about heart disease and cholesterol that people

should begin to understand because to reverse the

course of a belief system is very,

very difficult,

right?

Now we go from like a thought or an idea to

starting to make it a little more solidified.

Then it just comes into opinion and into a belief.

And then it's very,

very hard to crack that belief once an adult human

has kind of like made it.

So how do we start to change people's minds a

little bit?

Is there kind of like one,

one or two,

like bigger truths that,

um,

can really kind of maybe spark that idea of maybe

changing your thoughts around something so solidified

and heavily marketed and really,

really,

really stuck into the psyche.

Yeah.

So.

I guess the biggest,

um,

strategy that I've had is that people,

you know,

approach me or talk to me about things about their

health and stuff like that.

And,

you know,

I,

I do health coaching online,

and,

and,

um,

I think that when people tell me what they're

doing and they're kind of stuck in that,

that system,

that conventional wisdom of what's happening,

and they say,

well,

I'm doing this and I'm doing that.

And I'm taking these medications like I'm supposed

to,

and this,

and it's just getting worse.

Yeah.

And I say,

okay,

well.

That's not working for you.

Right.

And they've been told that there's just nothing

they can do.

The genetics have,

have predisposed them to this and there's just

nothing they can do.

And I said,

and I always have to convince them and tell them

like,

well,

let's try something different.

Right.

Maybe you're tracking the wrong things.

And then I lay out,

here's the things you should be tracking.

You should be tracking whether or not you're

insulin resistant,

whether or not you have oxidative stress or

inflammation and whether or not your stress response

is in balance.

Like those are the things we have to pay attention

to.

Um,

and just looking at a cholesterol panel and,

um,

lowering that cholesterol if it's high isn't

working.

And then people say,

'You know,

you know,' they're scared to eat red meat and

they're scared to eat saturated fat.

And I'm,

and I'm just sitting there saying,

'Well,

are you doing those things?' And they say,

'No.' And I say,

'Well,

what's happening is,

is your condition getting worse?

Are you getting healthier because of it?'

And they say,

'No.' And I said,

'Okay,

well then maybe that,

maybe that idea is wrong.

Let's try something different.

Um,

but it is really hard because they've been,

you know,

society and.

And the medical profession and nutritionists within

the medical profession have all,

um,

kind of bought into that theory.

And they've just kind of brainwashed them into

thinking saturated fat is bad.

And it's almost like they,

they have anxiety to go back to eating it again

because they've been told it's so bad,

but it's really about shifting people's thinking by

saying like,

'Is this working for you?

Are the decisions in your life making your life

better,

making your health better,

you know,

or are they not?

Because if they're not,

there's a different way.

Um,

and then,

you know,

another.

Impactful thing is to show people,

um,

you know,

anecdotes of people who have,

who have turned their life around by eating,

you know,

the complete opposite of what,

you know,

the,

the nutrition recommendations are that come from

academic institutions and medical,

um,

medical,

um,

uh,

or government agencies,

things like that.

Um,

so showing them those and say,

Hey,

look,

look at this,

look at this person did.

And that's just one person I know,

but he did exactly what he was told not to do,

um,

by the medical,

um,

uh,

profession and look what happened.

He's doing awesome.

Um,

and so,

and when people see that kind of stuff and they

see it enough,

cause,

cause if I say at one time,

they may say,

ah,

that's just one person,

or they may not believe me at all,

but I was the first time they heard it.

So I'm happy to be the first time because maybe

they hear it again from somebody else.

And then maybe they hear it again down the line

from somebody else.

And the third time they're like,

huh,

maybe there's something to this.

So I always,

I never,

I never say,

oh,

I'm not going to tell them because they're just,

they're brainwashed and they're never going to agree

with me.

It's like,

they're probably not going to agree with me,

but if I tell them that's the first time they

heard it.

And I'm happy to be the first time because the

second,

third,

fourth time,

maybe,

um,

I'm getting closer to that,

that second,

third,

fourth time.

Yeah,

I think it's a huge element of self-responsibility

that comes with making that type of change,

being so reliant on external sources,

whether that's your doctor for medical advice and

medications or from like government recommended daily

allowances,

what to eat,

what not to eat.

When we rely on these external things,

it's not real.

It's like we can blame those other things for our

lack of success.

Rather than,

you know,

okay.

If you taking the opportunity to sit down with a

health professional like yourself and really

assessing is what I'm doing right now,

really working,

being self-reflective and then putting the,

um,

putting the focus on yourself in regards to what

you can and can't do.

Um,

and putting the,

not blame,

not a great word to use,

but like when you can start putting the,

the conscious thought and conscious effort of what

you're doing and the results that you're not

getting.

I think that again,

yeah.

It can start sparking different thoughts and

different ideas and people.

And then ultimately that could,

um,

stop people on a different journey of behavioral

change perhaps.

But yeah,

I think you know,

I think you're spot on with that,

and then using examples because there are so many

of them out there that,

um,

yeah,

it's just like,

how,

how,

how do people,

how do people learn and how do people,

um,

really get into a position of changing their minds?

Because that's going to kind of look different for

everybody.

Yeah.

And,

and,

you know,

lots of times I share these anecdotes with either

from like my,

my past clients or just,

you know,

there's databases online of the,

just people who who eat more meat and,

and,

um,

and,

and,

you know,

get rid of the processed foods and how it has

transformed their life.

Um,

and so there's lots of anecdotal stories about

that.

And people like to say,

well,

that's just anecdotal.

There's no study there that proves that.

And I'm just like,

well,

if there's lots of anecdotes,

uh,

that's called data,

you know?

Um,

and so,

um,

so there's that.

And then.

You know,

it's just that we can't ignore those things.

Even if it was just one person that changed their

diet completely,

and then also changed their health completely

because of that.

Like we can't say,

oh,

well,

that was a fluke because,

because it's only one person.

We need to say that's fascinating.

Let's find out why,

you know,

that's what we should be saying,

you know,

and we can't ignore that result just because it's

only one person.

No,

absolutely.

And now you're spot on with that.

Um,

I always find our biological and cultural

developments very interesting,

and you know we see incredible rapid advances in

our cultural development to the point where our

biology just,

our biology just cannot keep up.

I always use the example of you know there's

probably 50 restaurants in the space of five

minutes from where I am.

There are supermarkets.

I can just get food any time of the day.

I can just always be eating.

You know that is a significant cultural development

that no way is my biology um advanced enough to

deal with that type of consistent consumption.

So,

what sort of disconnect do we have from our

evolutionary biology that really contributes to,

to heart disease?

Yeah.

So,

I mean,

that's definitely one of them is,

is the constant supply of calories,

right?

You know,

we,

we've even there's even,

um,

you know,

an interesting history,

um,

of breakfast and how it wasn't really part of,

you know,

uh,

everyday life.

And,

uh,

when,

when cereal companies started coming out and they

wanted to promote their cereals,

um,

they kind of invented this breakfast food.

Um,

and so they invented the meal of breakfast,

right?

So,

uh,

now we're,

now we're told that three meals a day is really

important.

Breakfast is the most important meal of the day

and it should be your cornflakes and whatever else,

you know,

and your orange juice and your,

um,

toast and jam and things like that.

Like it's just all processed carbohydrate foods,

you know?

Yeah.

And it's,

uh,

it's really,

really,

um,

bad for you,

um,

not only to eat those foods in general,

but to eat them first thing in the morning,

you're just,

you're just setting yourself up for spikes in blood

sugars and ups and downs all day long,

which is why you crash mid-morning.

And then you're starving,

um,

at lunch and you eat more processed carbohydrates.

And it's,

it's,

it's all a result of marketing,

you know,

from these companies,

um,

just trying to promote their product and they

thought their product was good.

Um,

but it turned out it's not been good for us.

Um,

and so,

yeah,

just this idea of having three meals a day,

but,

um,

Um,

also things like,

uh,

uh,

just vegetable oils being,

you know,

lowering cholesterol and how that's good for you.

But what if cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease

and,

um,

just,

you know,

all kinds of stuff like that.

The conventional ones that we have are more result

of marketing rather than actual data or evidence.

Cause it doesn't have to be published data.

It could just be evidence.

Um,

and so we have to watch out for those things

because we do live in a capitalist society,

which I think is a great thing.

But,

uh,

it,

it can get in the way of,

uh,

the truth sometimes.

Absolutely.

So are there any key points that we can look back

through our human evolution?

Right.

That we can look,

that we can apply today because we've lost so many

of the,

the foods and the habits and all these things that

our biology is still very much programmed to deal

with.

Yeah.

So,

you know,

it's,

it's interesting that the humans have been eating

humans.

Humans and pre-human ancestors have been eating meat

for millions of years,

um,

eating red meat and saturated fat.

And,

and there's even evidence that we were the highest

level carnivores out there at some points,

you know,

like with the very early modern humans and the

Neanderthals,

they were,

they were eating meat at levels,

um,

higher than known carnivores at the time.

Um,

we were the,

we were the apex predator.

And so it doesn't make sense that a food that

helped form us evolutionarily would now be causing.

Um,

it makes way more sense that foods that are newer,

like vegetable oils and processed sugars and

processed grains,

are the cause of that.

Um,

but also you have to think about how in a very

evolutionarily short amount of time we went from,

you know,

being these,

these hunter gatherer,

um,

a hunter gatherer type species living in nature,

you know,

exposed to dirt and bacteria and eating lots of

animal foods and whole foods in general,

not just all animal foods,

but just,

you know,

whole real foods.

Right.

Not processed foods.

Um,

and how we were,

we were in these,

you know,

small nomadic groups.

We weren't bombarded by all these craziness of

society and all the people and things around us

that we see.

Um,

you know,

we probably,

um,

you know,

we never would have saw what was happening halfway

around the world.

We would have just seen what was happening in our

local environment.

And so our,

our environment has drastically changed in

evolutionarily,

a very short amount of time.

And that change started to happen with the,

the advent of agriculture when humans started

staying in one place and.

Um,

and farming,

uh,

farming certain foods and there's debate about why

that started or,

or how it started.

Um,

but it did start and that,

that birth civilization to the people started,

you know,

living in close quarters and cities.

Um,

and then we,

you know,

fast forward to where we are today,

but that's a very evolutionarily short amount of

time.

Yeah.

When we look at,

um,

I'm going to try if I can get,

see if I can get this right.

But,

um,

if you look at the,

uh,

the face of a clock,

um,

and the clock is a,

is the history of.

Of,

uh,

humanity,

uh,

of humans,

when modern humans,

the first modern humans evolved,

um,

you know,

we were hunter gatherers,

uh,

throughout almost the entirety of that 24-hour

cycle,

um,

on the clock.

And it was only like 11:54 PM when we started

farming.

Um,

so if that tells you anything about,

you know,

how,

how long we were doing something else.

And then all of a sudden,

within 10,000 years,

which sounds like a long time,

but evolutionarily speaking,

it's a very,

very short amount of time.

Um,

we started.

We started living in cities,

farming,

um,

and that kind of stuff.

And our physiology is not built for that.

There's been no time been enough time for us to

adapt to that type of way of life.

Um,

so that it's healthy for us.

So really,

we need to put ourselves in an environment within

the context of our modern world,

that's more like that hunter-gatherer or that

natural lifestyle.

And I'm not saying that,

like,

I'm not romanticizing the hunter-gatherer lifestyle.

It was probably pretty difficult,

you know,

and it was,

um,

you know,

it was life or death a lot of times.

Um,

and.

And,

uh,

and I'm not completely demonizing a civilization

either,

um,

because there's,

you know,

we've had huge advancement advancements as humans,

um,

because of civilization and because of agriculture.

So,

um,

but health-wise,

it wasn't very good for us.

And so that's why I say within the confines of

our modern society,

we need to figure out how we get back to living

a lifestyle that's more in line with what our

physiology evolved to.

Because if we,

that's the only path to health,

you know,

and it's not going to be taking these drugs or

whatever.

It's the only path.

The only path is to change your environment.

Your body responds to its environment.

Um,

and if we're giving it the wrong signals,

that's going to give us the wrong health.

Yeah.

Beautifully said.

I love the clock human history analogy as well.

That's great.

I'm going to,

I'm going to steal that one if you don't mind.

Yeah.

Um,

I actually stole it.

So,

okay,

great.

Then it moves on.

That's great.

Yeah.

Um,

yeah,

we've,

we've,

we've spoken about cardiovascular disease and I've

been the leading cause of death worldwide and it's

by a significant margin as well.

It's a second and third place.

Um,

what can,

what can we start doing?

What can I do tomorrow morning to just make,

like,

to start doing something good for my heart health?

You know,

is it adding something?

Is it taking something away?

What would,

what would you suggest to like the average person

that just doesn't eat good?

Yeah.

So,

well,

and my big,

my big point in the book is that,

that,

um,

heart disease is about way more than diet.

Um,

I,

I think that it's actually being driven by an

imbalance in our stress response.

Um,

so like if,

if I'm talking to someone,

I give them like the elevator speech.

What,

what should they do tomorrow morning?

It should be focused on three things.

One is make sure you're eating a diet that makes

you metabolically flexible,

um,

makes you,

uh,

not to be insulin resistant.

And so that's fairly simple.

It means eat whole foods.

Don't eat foods like processed grains,

processed sugars,

um,

or vegetable oils,

um,

by vegetable oils.

I mean like corn oil,

canola oil,

soy oil,

safflower oil,

those types of things.

Um,

and be careful with olive oil and avocado oil.

Because lots of times it's heavily contaminated with

vegetable oils.

You gotta get a good brand that's,

that's pure olive oil or avocado oil.

So,

um,

so yeah,

that's eat a diet that's metabolically flexible and

it's simple enough.

Eat a whole food diet.

Um,

don't eat a processed food,

um,

diet.

And so that's one.

Number two is decrease the amount of,

um,

oxidative stress and inflammation that your body

has.

And so there's three main things there.

One is the diet part of it.

If you're eating a whole food diet,

you're going to do,

be doing a good thing for reducing inflammation and

oxidative stress,

but also we want to avoid toxin exposure like

manmade toxins.

Um,

and the big areas I tell people to look at for,

um,

for those toxins in their life is their diet,

their water,

their air,

um,

their cosmetics and their cleaning products.

Like if you focus on those and make sure you're

getting,

um,

you know,

the cleanest versions of things you can get,

um,

and,

or,

I mean,

really just to clean things,

you need like,

vinegar and water,

you know,

and,

uh,

maybe some essential oils if you want it to smell

good,

but,

you know,

just looking into your life and making sure you're

avoiding toxins like heavy metals and plastics and

things as much as you can,

um,

because those things build up and they,

they cause inflammation and oxidative stress.

But then the third cause of oxidative stress is,

is psychological stress,

which leads us into the third proponent of heart

disease,

which is an imbalance in our stress response.

Um,

so our stress response is just our autonomic

nervous system.

It's just the system of our body.

That's.

Um,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and,

and interpreting for a safer threatening environment.

Um,

and based on which one we're in the body reacts

accordingly.

Um,

however,

in modern day society,

there are lots of things that can kind of drive

us into this constant state of a stress response.

So we get this imbalance stress response.

Um,

and,

uh,

the,

uh,

the evidence and the research on this is just

absolutely fascinating.

As far as how the nervous system develops and how

it can get into this imbalance state,

which is not really like it's imbalanced.

It's just that one of,

one of them is kind of shut down.

One aspect of it is kind of shut down.

And the other one kind of takes over.

Um,

and so,

so,

you know,

achieving balance and making sure you're doing

things that,

um,

help you,

um,

help you maintain that balance and your stress

response is really,

really important.

So just kind of a tidbit here is that,

um,

you know,

the,

the stresses in our life that seem to have the

most negative impact on health are stresses that

make us feel like we're out of control,

um,

or that we're in an unpredictable situation,

um,

which,

you know,

sheds some light onto why,

you know,

this past two years almost,

uh,

has been so hard for people,

um,

because that's exactly what's happened.

People have been in,

in uncontrollable,

unpredictable situations for too long now.

Um,

you never know what's going to come next.

And so,

um,

but yeah,

they did studies on people within a company,

within a big company,

and they looked for the people in the company who

had,

um,

uh,

the most stress and also the highest,

um,

or the,

the,

the poorest health,

right.

And the people who had,

um,

but it,

but it,

it wasn't the most stress.

It was the type of stress that mattered.

So like people who,

people who,

you know,

were maybe at lower-end jobs in the company and

maybe their,

their job wasn't guaranteed or their salary wasn't

guaranteed,

um,

or they didn't make a predictable income,

or they felt like they didn't have control over

what they did in their job.

They were just told what to do.

Um,

those types of people who reported a lot of stress

had the worst health outcomes,

whereas people in the company who may be higher up

in the company,

or maybe just had a more secure job,

um,

um,

that kind of stuff,

or,

um,

or they were just,

you know,

they had a very high stress,

high demand job,

but they were in control of it,

you know,

and then they had,

they didn't have any impact,

um,

on their health because of that stress.

Like they reported lots of stress,

but no,

but they didn't have negative health outcomes from

it.

So it's really the type.

So when you,

when you look in your life and say,

okay,

I got to get rid of these stresses,

get rid of the ones that make you feel like

you're in unpredictable situations.

Um,

if you can,

and ones that make you feel like you're out of

control.

Yeah.

That's really good advice.

That's really good.

Thank you very much for that.

I appreciate you sharing that.

Um,

just to kind of finish up,

you've written two books.

Congratulations on that,

by the way,

that's,

that's not an easy thing to do.

Um,

can you see the ones,

is this the first one,

The Health Evolution?

Why understanding,

um,

evolution is the key to vibrant health.

Yeah.

That's the first book.

Right.

And then the second book is The Heart,

Our Most Medically Misunderstood Organ.

So the,

the second one is actually,

um,

that,

that.

That one you just said is a short ebook I wrote,

which I've taken down now.

So the second one is,

uh,

understanding the heart.

Um,

and it,

uh,

it was originally self-published,

um,

earlier this year,

but then they got picked up by a publisher.

So it's not available right now.

It will be available in April.

Um,

when we republish it through the publisher.

So,

um,

so people can look for that.

It should hopefully be available for pre-order

pretty soon.

Amazing.

Yeah.

Wonderful.

And if people want to pre-order,

if they want to get in contact with you,

what's the best place for them to do that?

So,

I will definitely be updating my website on that

information about the book.

Um,

but also through my website is how people can

contact me.

So,

that's ResourcedHealth.com and then also I will be

posting on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter,

um,

about,

you know,

the upcoming stuff with the book and people can

also contact me on those,

on those platforms as well.

Um,

so if they want to just keep track of,

of,

uh,

when this book's coming out and me in general,

they can do social media.

Beautiful.

Well,

that's awesome.

I really appreciate your time today.

Thank you so much for joining us.

No problem.

Happy to be here.

Wonderful.

Well,

um,

I'll make sure all that information in regards to

getting in contact with Dr.

Hussey and getting hold of his books will be

available in the show notes.

So you can check that out.

Don't forget to subscribe if you haven't yet.

Thank you so much for listening to True Hope Cast,

official podcast of True Hope Canada.

We'll see you next week.