0:00

Just as I think this paradigm shift in neuroscience and change is a threat

0:05

becomes we have to adapt now differently and boy you know as much as there's

0:13

resistance to change it's because we don't know how to cooperate and I think

0:18

we're learning how to cooperate to make help change happen. Mhm. So what we call resistance is really the

0:24

brains no the threat to the what would be the razone detra if all of a sudden

0:32

people could heal themselves with natural neutrauticals instead of pharmaceuticals.

0:48

Welcome to True Hope Cast, the official podcast of True Hope Canada, where we explore the deep connections between the

0:54

brain, the body, and what it really takes to build lasting mental wellness. I am your host, Simon Brazier, and

1:00

today's conversation goes straight to the heart of why so many people feel stuck despite insight, effort, and even

1:06

years of therapy. Our guest is Brian D. Rash. He's a PhD, an experimental

1:11

focused psychotherapist, coach, consultant, and author with over three decades of clinical experience. Brian's

1:18

work sits at the intersection of modern neuroscience and real world transformation. He has trained

1:24

extensively in EMDR, brain spotting, internal family systems, coherence therapy, and his insights challenge many

1:31

of the assumptions we've held about emotional healing. He is the author of the newly releasleased Living a

1:37

Trigger-free Life, where he explores how deeply rooted emotional patterns are formed, why willpower often fails, and

1:43

most importantly, how the brain can actually update and release old emotional learnings that no longer serve

1:49

us. In this episode, we're going to be unpacking why your brain resists change even when you want it. How emotional

1:56

memories formed decades ago still shape your reactions today. What neuroscience tells us about moving beyond symptom

2:02

management, and how emotional resilience depends not only on psychology, but also on the brain's biological readiness to

2:09

change. This is a conversation about understanding your brain, working with its protective systems, and creating the

2:15

conditions for real lasting change. Today's topic is when the brain is ready to heal. Biology meets emotional change.

2:23

Enjoy the show. Hi Brian, welcome to True Hope Cast. How are you? What's going well?

2:29

I'm well. Good morning. Good morning. Uh my golf game's going well. The week is

2:34

going The week is going well. Uh and I just look forward to to to this to our

2:40

experience together. I really do. Wonderful. Wonderful. Well, yeah. The uh golf time in Cam Loops where I live is

2:47

almost upon us and um my wife can't wait because all I talk about is golf. So

2:53

Oh, my wife in fact left with my son just now and they're out doing 18.

2:58

Oh, the dream. The dream. Let's not talk about that. Let's move on. I'm just going to get jealous. Yeah.

3:04

Um so we're going to be discussing when the brain is ready to heal, biology

3:09

meets emotional change today. But before we jump into that heavy topic, would you mind telling us a little bit more about

3:15

who you are and what it is that you do? Yeah. Yes. Um

3:21

name Brian D. Ro. Yes. I um let me start with what I do. Been in private practice

3:28

coaching and psychotherapy for about 354 years. Um done a lot of work on my own.

3:35

Uh and one of the things that that I've always been interested in terms of my

3:40

practice is how do we change only happens when we change the brain. So and

3:47

for I don't know at least the whole last century the only way we could change the

3:52

brain we didn't really change it we just provide alternatives for people to focus on kind of a counteractive model. M

3:59

so uh for the past 11 years 10 11 years I've been really focusing on how we

4:05

really make true deep change in working with my clients and synaptic change and

4:12

finally and the reason is the neuroscience is out there professionally I love what I do I uh am a former

4:19

Canadian as I mentioned um I'm and and I love that about myself and my history um

4:28

live in Seattle, two adult children. Um,

4:34

enjoy good food, good friends, good golf when I can golf good

4:42

and the opportunity once again just to talk with you and to talk about my book. I'm really and and the whole process of

4:47

how do we really create enduring transformation. I will tell you I did 17 years of

4:53

personal psychotherapy myself trying all kinds of different models and motifs and

4:58

and everything. And um

5:05

although I got insight and a lot of understanding into the issues and challenges in my life and although I

5:11

knew how to create relief for myself when I was activated and reactive, nothing really changed until I dis I

5:19

really became aware of the neuroscience of memory reconsolidation and emotional

5:24

healing at that deep level. That paradigm shift for me changed everything. Changed everything. Amazing.

5:31

Well, thank you for that intro. I'd love to jump in straight away into um the

5:36

brain and and how we learn and of and actually talk about selfdefeating

5:42

behaviors which I think is a big challenge for a lot of people when they're looking to to change those subconscious patterns. Those programs

5:48

that we've been hitting hard for many many years, you know, come in, they take over. Body doesn't like change, people

5:54

don't like change. Um but there are ways in which we can do that. So, like you often say and through your

6:00

through your work looking through your website that um self-defeating behaviors aren't flaws, but they're protections.

6:07

So, how does the brain learn these protective emotional patterns and why do they operate completely kind of outside

6:15

of our conscious awareness? Oh, that's a great question. Um, first of all, the the um

6:23

most of us are familiar with learning skills. how they will use a computer, swing a golf club, use a fork, drive a

6:29

car. And we we kind of learn those skills and they become what is called

6:34

implicit memory. When I get in my car, I don't have to take out the manual, turn on the ignition, you know, I know how to

6:42

do that. I know how to use a fork. I I I know how to do things in life procedurally. Those are implicit. I

6:48

don't have to, you know, after we practice enough, we just know it. And the second level of learning assimon is

6:56

uh uh knowledge processes you know how to program something how to write a book

7:02

something how to do anything we learn processes knowledge history all of these

7:08

things that we learn. There is a third level of learning that very few of us know about called emotional learning and

7:16

that is the emotional brain learns to associate experiences

7:22

with emotions and but that learning happens below our

7:29

conscious awareness. We're not aware that the emotional brain is learning. If I want to go out and

7:34

learn how to uh how to uh uh plant flowers, plant my garden better, I'm

7:39

going to read a book. I'm going to do research. I'm that kind of thing. It's very intentional.

7:45

Emotional learning is unintentional and usually happens in the first seven years

7:50

of life and also up to about 15 or 16, but it can happen after that too

7:57

because it's learning. What happens is if I learn that asking for what I want

8:03

or accepting compliments or expressing myself

8:09

is results in suffering or pain.

8:14

Then my emotional brain learns that but I don't know it. So well let's just

8:20

imagine that I'm in a business meeting and um I want to contribute my knowledge

8:25

and experience and I know I can really help and I mean this is a true example

8:30

from my own experience but when I go to say something something inside of me my

8:36

body gets anxious it tightens up I get blocked now people call that

8:42

self-sabotage I'm sabotaging myself I'm getting in my own way Right? But what's

8:48

happening is if I learn that saying expressing myself, giving out my

8:54

thoughts with a group of people that are important to me will cause pain because

9:00

that's what happened in my childhood. No blame. It's just what happened. Then

9:06

my brain takes in that information and it predicts. The brain is a predictive

9:12

mechanism. It learns, it predicts, it adapts. The brain then predicts suffering based on what it recognizes I

9:20

want to do. It will then generate anxiety, the threat signal.

9:26

And then it will generate a protective mechanism, withdrawal, avoidance,

9:32

conflict, criticism, even depression. Even a an exogenist, which is a

9:40

depression that happens because of outside events, not an internal endogenous depression, can then be the

9:47

way that my brain, not me, the way that my brain is protecting me.

9:53

And those protective mechanisms, there's three basic sets. The push away,

9:59

the withdrawal from, and the complete avoidance of anything. And if you look

10:04

at any of our problems and symptoms that people are dealing with in our lives, it'll fall in those three categories.

10:12

Those are not character flaws. As I say in the book and on my website, they're not. They're the brain's way of

10:19

automatically protecting you from suffering that it learned will happen

10:24

because it happened a long time ago, but it's not happening now. Yeah. But Simon, the it feels like it's real

10:32

right now. That's the thing that's so interesting about this and makes it I

10:37

think very challenging for us because I nobody's going to reject me if I

10:43

contribute my knowledge in a meeting. But it feels like I will be rejected and

10:50

that feeling is much stronger than that thought. And so I will withdraw. I will

10:56

self-sabotage. I'll get in my own way. I've got hundreds and hundreds of stories and examples, including my own,

11:04

of how the brain's protective mechanisms are the problems and symptoms we're all

11:10

trying to resolve. And it's all caused by unconscious or implicit emotional

11:17

learnings. Yeah. I think I think many people when they sit down they understand their

11:24

patterns intellectually but right they still can't change them. So from like a neuros science

11:31

perspective why is insight alone so rarely enough to produce those lasting

11:37

emotional changes a lot of people want to have but just can't get through it. Boy that was my experience for so many

11:44

years. Yeah, I know because my dad was a PTSD World War II veteran who suffered

11:50

from alcoholism. I know I carry around this anxiety. Something bad's going to happen or I'm going to be shamed because

11:58

of that. And and I had I had awareness. I knew that was I knew it. I knew that I

12:04

had this imposttor syndrome. I knew it. But I couldn't change it, Simon. I

12:10

couldn't change it. And the reason is is in fact knowing it added to my frustration.

12:16

What's wrong with me? How come I can't speak my peace? Be clear. A lot of

12:23

examples. What happens is insight is a mental awareness. Right. Oh, I know

12:29

this. But the change that has to happen is not in the neoortex, the thinking brain.

12:36

It's in the emotional brain. Yeah. And until that happens, the cause of my problems will continue to exist.

12:46

Now, what's interesting is about 15 18

12:52

years ago, neuroscience discovered what before was thought to be

12:57

impossible. We can update the the emotional world. We can update

13:04

the learnings. we can actually change at the synaptic level if we become aware of

13:10

what the threat is and there's a very clear protocol and it is like what I

13:16

call human technology it's a highly predictable outcome um because we're changing at the

13:22

synaptic level so insight I get it understanding very important change does

13:30

not create enduring transformation at All I wish it did, but it doesn't.

13:37

The new neuroscience does, Simon. The new neuroscience does. I just had I had

13:43

a great um podcast episode um I'm not going to ruin it for people but of who I

13:48

spoke to but we talk about the um the lack of like emotional development

13:55

especially within men um what they have and how kind of in our culture we don't

14:02

really particularly have a strong sense of helping educate young kids and how to

14:08

emotionally develop effectively. into adulthood. And we talked about all sorts of things, but one thing that kind of

14:14

stood up for me was that within within daycarees and, you know, the first years

14:20

of school, most teachers and most of the that adult presence is is female. And

14:29

yes, women have, you know, not know typically women will have a um different response

14:35

to men when it comes to developing kids. And especially with young boys, you know, young boys are we're looking to

14:43

control their emotions. And we just had this interesting conversation about um the underdeveloped

14:49

emotional range that adults end up adult boys end up having. And that's why we

14:57

see I think so many anxious men. We see a lot of men who go towards um

15:02

addictions whether that is alcohol, drugs, uh pornography like people that

15:08

are looking for necessarily looking for something but

15:15

they just don't have the skill set within them which is you know something we actually have to develop. you know,

15:20

just like, you know, like our our structure physically, we have to develop parts of our brain to

15:26

to work to work optimally. But and if we're not teaching our kids and we're not we're

15:33

not educating ourselves to be examples, mentors, etc., then it only makes sense

15:39

that we will continue to um develop underdeveloped emotional individuals.

15:46

I I couldn't agree more. I, you know, I think of myself when I was 27, my father

15:54

passed away and my wife at that time I I was having

15:59

I I didn't know what it was. I didn't have a word for what I was feeling and

16:05

she said, "Oh, that's grief." Yeah. And I went, "Oh, okay." Because I had

16:12

never learned an a a feeling vocabulary. Yeah. I had feelings, but I never

16:18

learned a vocabulary that I could express them. And so, they

16:23

had a lot of control over my life. Our we men are we're very emotional

16:29

creatures. Very emotional. And and but we don't understand

16:36

our feelings because we haven't been encouraged to label them, identify them.

16:41

Oh, that's what that is. Now, I get it. And when I do this this you know uh it

16:47

hopefully that happens. My hope and to go back my one of my deepest hopes and

16:53

is that we will uh change the way we educate that the emotional process will

16:59

become as important as the intellectual process. Oh, it's so valuable. I think

17:05

just as you, you know, when you grow up, especially into man, you you get married, you have kids, the way that

17:11

your emotions um come up for you and how they are exhibited changes drastically.

17:17

There are mo there are movies and shows I cannot watch now as a as a father that

17:22

I would have had no problem watching before that. Yeah. And you know, like not a whole lot

17:27

has changed, but it just goes to show that that that that feeling vocabulary,

17:33

that emotional range. It's so interesting because if you were to ask a hundred people a few typical emotions

17:40

associated with men, you probably come up with like a more red emotions like, you know, anger and rape,

17:48

rage, but like it's such an unbelievable um vast array of emotions that we can

17:54

experience. And if you can't put a word to something to a feeling that you're coming up with, you're probably going to

18:00

struggle to understand it or throw it into the same narrow category.

18:06

I agree. You know, it's interesting, Simon. The word feeling comes from the Latin word fel and it means to

18:13

understand. To So, if I say that's a feeling, it means I understand something.

18:20

Yeah. About myself, what I'm experiencing. I thought that was interesting. Understand. Wow. feeling. Yeah.

18:27

Yeah. I think that is a really important thing. And I think that we in our culture, we do pretty well at

18:34

understanding things outside of us. Like we use like, you know, science to explain like, you know, gravity and

18:40

light and sound and all these things. But when it comes to let's say like

18:45

mental health or things inside of our body, it's not super easy to make them

18:51

explainable. That's why we have researchers and scientists and um brain surgeons, you know, who can actually go

18:56

in and see these things. But to to talk about, let's say, like depression or or

19:02

anxiety, we we don't have a strong understanding of something like that because it's inside of us. It's

19:07

biochemical. I I think we struggle a lot with that and we just kind of like maybe push it to the side because we don't

19:13

have that understanding. No, we don't. One of the things that I did in my book because of that is that I

19:18

have 11 illustrations of what happens in the brain and where in the brain emotional learning happens. How does the

19:25

threat assessment happen? What gets triggered if you will the protective behavior. So I kind of lay it out

19:34

graphically so people have a sense that the brain is is this learning,

19:39

predicting and adapting process and it just wants you to be here tomorrow. It

19:45

doesn't care about your happiness. It's like it's not a hapifying process. It's a survivaling process. It wants you to

19:52

be alive tomorrow. That's its primary function. And so we can work with that

19:59

evolutionary process. We can work with it or we can fight against it. The

20:04

overcome, push away, battle your demons, you know,

20:10

fight your self-sabotage is a contradiction. It It's a model that

20:16

does not work because we're fighting evolution that we're not cooperating with evolution that wants us to survive.

20:23

And the new memory reconsolidation process is about optimizing the brain's

20:31

adapting and predicting process to change it to change the brain at the

20:36

synaptic level. That's the exciting part. That's I I love what you mentioned there about,

20:42

you know, we try to fight and battle our our demons, you know, in our past and it

20:48

makes me think, you know, obviously the brain is so complex and we honestly we barely understand anything about the

20:53

brain in regards to its complexity, what it can do, its its potential, how it functions. I think we're 1% into the

21:01

potential of our learning of the brain. But the one thing is for sure that when you are in a state of fight or flight in

21:10

a sympathetic state when you you know angry, rageful, scared, fear, anxious. I

21:15

think fear is a big point like so many people are in a constant state of fear and our biology is not designed to keep

21:22

you in that state for long periods of time. You can't actually access hugely

21:27

important intellectual rational parts of your brain when you are functioning at such a stressful in such a stressful

21:33

state. So going into battle against your demons, I don't think it's even possible

21:39

to be able to to do that because the parts of your brain you need to fire to wire to you know reconnect and regrow

21:47

and you know create new synaptic connections which is a potential any second of the day. I don't think you can

21:55

positively do that when you are in a state of anxiety and stress and it's

22:01

probably the beginning stages of that recovery process. But you know that uh I

22:08

you said it well and that's why that because prior to the turn of the century

22:14

during the whole 20th century the predominant model of change or psychotherapy or coaching or self-help

22:21

and particularly starting in the 70s was the counteractive model because at that

22:28

point in time it would by neuroscience it was very clear unconscious emotional

22:34

learning is indelible. You cannot change. You got to have insight. You can

22:39

have understanding. You can have soothing techniques when you're activated, but you can't change it.

22:45

Yeah. The new neuroscience in this century has made it very clear. We can change the

22:52

brain and the unconscious learning at the synaptic level. For me, learning

22:57

that and learning what that process was, Simon was a a complete paradigm shift.

23:03

As I mentioned, for me it was like what? It's like waking up and seeing, oh my

23:09

god. But it it allowed me to really look at my own criticisms and my own faults,

23:15

my own what I and see them grow what they were. My brain was just doing its production thing and I can change it.

23:23

There was great freedom in that. But also I could could see suffering differently because

23:31

suffering then became protection.

23:37

It's a very it's a very different way to look at things and that's why my

23:42

profession the psychotherapy profession is very much challenged by this because

23:48

it is such a shift from how we've been functioning and and helping people.

23:54

Yeah, it's not enough to to know these days. We need to know how. And there's certainly very incredible formulas out

24:02

there. There are ways in which to do that that can, I believe, um, communicate to all sorts of different

24:08

people. The way that I have, I want to say, evolved my emotional learning and

24:14

understanding would probably be very different to my to my wife's. I know that for a fact because I've tried to

24:20

get her to read the books that I've read to change my life and she's got her own path which is awesome

24:25

and great and wonderful but we've got so many incredible people out there who do offer these um

24:33

what I want to say yeah solutions I guess to improving yourself and to and and to becoming an individual that is

24:42

I want to say more aware living in a you know rest and digest state less stress

24:49

less less stressed environment I think the the only way that your and your brain can thrive and be prosperous is

24:56

when you're in that state more often than not because that's kind of that's how we've evolved to be as a human being and the our biology is not so different

25:04

from you know hundreds of thousands of years ago human beings but our environment our culture is very very

25:10

vastly different. We don't have to worry too much about being eaten by saber-tooth tigers anymore. But we are

25:18

unbelievably stressed out before we go to sleep thinking about money and thinking about

25:23

our kids and thinking about this and that. And some of these things are absolutely real. But we do have

25:29

mechanisms in place to be able to help our brain through those moments to

25:35

sometimes even think or breathe um or move our way into a different brain

25:40

shape. And these tools are available. We just have to kind of get out of our own way and be um willing enough to learn

25:46

them. You know, it I I appreciate your comment about the the the different levels

25:52

emotionally and then intellectually. About about a month ago, I did some

25:57

research on it and looking at the three dimensions of of humanness in terms of

26:04

how we express ourselves. The first was our technology in both medical I mean

26:10

our technology if you go back 250 years we had the tire then the printing the wheel then a print

26:17

but now the curve is exponential in terms of our cognitive development as

26:22

measured by our technology it's amazing but if we look at our emotional

26:28

development and you just inferred that we have not evolved at all in 250

26:35

species We still are tribal. We're very primitive in our behavior. There's been

26:41

we we still are highly emotional creatures driven by emotion. I.e. look

26:46

what's happening in the world. Yeah. You know, it's all so we're we're still very primitive as emotional creatures.

26:54

And of course that relates also to the spiritual dimension too. And that keeps evolving. But I my observation is we've

27:02

flatlined like this evolution emotionally and we have this exponential

27:08

curve technologically and this has to catch up with that. Oh yeah.

27:14

Because we run the threat of destroying ourselves because of our emotional

27:20

processes. Yeah. I I I think a lot of the solution has got to do with kind of how we

27:26

approach things here at True Hope in regards to taking a few steps back. Let's get back to the foundations of of

27:33

what what we require. I love to think back about, you know, how how um how we

27:40

were 100,000 years ago, you know, like when it comes to my exposure to light,

27:46

how I sleep, how I grow food, how I eat, how I move my body, like we've got all

27:51

the we've all got all the signals in our natural world to understand these things. But again, like our cultural

27:57

evolution has just boomed where our human our human biology has not been able to to keep up and I don't think it

28:04

ever will unless we take a few steps back, look at the look at the root cause of things and and be

28:09

able to to work with our traditions and get back to

28:14

community. I think there's a huge spirit spiritual deficiency on our culture. I

28:20

see so many people looking to looking to religion, looking to maybe a church or

28:25

whatever that means for people. But there is a big gap in our soul. I'll just say that people are looking to to

28:32

to nourish as well as, you know, looking to nourish their their brains, their bodies. There's something outside of us

28:38

that we might not not necessarily energetically see. But I think we can all feel um energetically something that

28:46

we're all missing a little bit. Whether that is community, people, church, I don't know. But people are looking for

28:53

it. And again, there are there are options out there for people. Oh yeah. Very Oh, yeah. And

29:01

when people do that, often times it's the sabotaging that holds them back. Yeah.

29:06

They self It's like, well, I I don't belong. I I I I'm not sure people will

29:11

like me. We have all these learnings that get in the way of our desires, you

29:18

know. the the the um I I in the book I talk about the foot on the foot on the

29:23

gas and foot on the brake. We want to do something, express ourselves, do an exercise program, whatever, write a

29:31

book, you know, whatever it is, foot on the gas. But then when you start doing that, if the brain learned that this

29:39

will cause pain and suffering, you know, speaking in front of people, oh, I can't

29:44

do that because people will laugh at me. You can rest assured you're going to be really anxious in that situation because

29:52

your paras parasy your sympathetic nervous system has put the brake on. You

29:57

got your foot on the gas and put on the brake. That is a very that's really hard on the body.

30:02

Yeah. The inflammatory system just hard on us. It's very Yeah. And what that does to people like

30:08

in the long term, whether that is public speaking, which is kind of the classic example of immediate anxiety where you

30:15

know, you you feel that emotion just as quick as you think about public speaking. And that that rroots into

30:21

being a that you think about that all the time. It's going to fire. It's going to wire. It's going to be a norm. And

30:26

you're not even going to be able to be in a state where you can actually maybe analyze those thoughts, analyze the

30:32

validity of those thoughts. you know, are the things I'm actually concerned about are are they actually even real?

30:39

Um, that's I think that's, you know, a big conversation of the positivities of of like things like CBT and, you know,

30:45

cognitive behavioral therapy, but again, there's so many options out there for people. I'd love to ask you about um

30:52

more like the internal voice that people have and you know people often describe that internal feeling voice that tells

31:00

them not to speak up or not to trust or not to change. How does that relationship not to Yes.

31:08

Yeah. So, I was just going to finish off the question there with how does this voice form and why does it feel so

31:16

convincing even when it's outdated?

31:21

And that's one of the big dilemmas. It is it is outdated.

31:27

And people say, "Well, I don't hear a voice. It's just a feeling." I Well, it's a feeling voice. It's telling you

31:33

something. It's telling you it's warning you. It's a warning signal. Don't do this. Stop. And that usually what's when

31:40

we experience the anxiety. When that happens, your brain has

31:47

perceived a stimulus, something you want to do or something that's happening out

31:53

there. It's taken it in and it it the brain's always doing a threat assessment

31:58

of every everything that comes in. My brain's doing a threat assessment right now as we have a conversation. And so

32:05

that threat assessment looks at previous learnings or experiences

32:11

that involve if it involves pain or suffering, the brain will immediately

32:17

turn on anxiety to to do that signal right there and that signal will then

32:23

produce the behavior. If I can become aware of that signal and give it words,

32:30

in other words, what is the threat? You talked about it isn't real. The vast

32:35

majority of our emotional threats have no basis in reality, Simon. They have no

32:42

basis in reality. They are based on experiences in the past when our brain learned something

32:49

that we didn't know it learned. Therefore, we don't know what it learned. But if I can bring that

32:54

learning to consciousness, in other words, if I express myself,

32:59

people will reject me just like kids bullied me when I was in grade school or just like they laughed at me when I was

33:07

in grade seven and I made a mistake. So many examples in my book about that where okay, this is happening now

33:15

because it happened back then. If this then this and if I can articulate

33:23

the co a conscious awareness of what that learning is which we can do

33:29

then I can introduce what is called a prediction correction

33:35

because the brain is an adaptive mechanism. One of its primary things to do is it's constantly wanting to learn

33:42

to survive. That's okay. I get that.

33:47

But if it encounters a mismatch of information, for example, if I'm doing a

33:53

say I'm going to do a presentation and I remember this early in my career very well. One I'll do a presentation and I'm

34:00

anxious and oh my god people are going to see that I don't know what I'm talking about that I'm a fake and I'm a

34:05

and I'm anxious and I'm so worried they're going to see right through my soul and so many people out there know

34:12

what I'm talking about, you know. Oh god. And it's like

34:17

now if I'm in that state and at the same time I bring in information kind of like

34:23

Bluetooth where you do a you you match them together. If I bring in information

34:29

now wait a minute number one I'm not a grade seven anymore. But more importantly I've done many

34:35

presentations. I've talked to people many times and they've appreciated it. They've acknowledged it. No one has

34:41

laughed at me. No one has rejected me. They've all said thank you. So if I

34:47

mismatch or called it prediction correction if I know what the prediction is and I provide the brain with a

34:54

mismatch while I'm in the negative state and that's the important thing. You've got to be in the negative state. That's

35:01

why affirmations don't work. You've got to be in that negative state. that

35:07

consolidated neural network which is actually located in the right subcortical regions of the right

35:13

hemisphere. That's where the unconscious is. If I activate that and I feel it

35:20

because I'm anxious and I know if I do this then this is what will happen. I'll be laughed at, rejected, criticized,

35:27

shamed, ostracized, physically hurt, betrayed.

35:32

There's five primary threats we experience as children. I'm in this anxious state and then I

35:39

bring in contradictory information. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

35:45

The brain recognizes the mismatch. This is the Simon. This is the most amazing

35:50

thing. The brain recognizes the mismatch between what it's predicting and what's

35:58

coming in. And it unlocks, unwires that neural network that's back here.

36:04

literally deconolidates it. And when it deconolidates it, it's open

36:10

to be updated and I can then bring in experiences. And after five hours, five

36:18

hours, it reconsolidates back down with the new information. In other words, I

36:26

have updated a learning and now when that information comes in,

36:34

huh, I'll have I don't get triggered as much. And the more that you do it, that

36:40

learning just in fact it's eliminated over over time. Sometimes in one

36:46

experience of that, it can be eliminated. Um, that's the first time we're able to we can actually update

36:54

our life, our history. We can reduce, eliminate self-sabotage

37:00

by updating the learnings that cause it. What's the cause? We can update it. And

37:05

that's what make I'm just so excited about that. To me, I just I want people to realize, you know, this is your brain

37:12

just doing its brainy thing and you can help it do better. You because you're not brain. You're not your brain.

37:19

Yeah. Once we once we understand a little bit that you know this this brain this amazing thing we have is is super

37:24

ancient. We still have parts of you know the reptilian brain where you know

37:29

taking a risk meant life or death right that's not quite the situation anymore

37:36

you know so once we kind of understand that a little bit I think people because because of that maybe don't take maybe

37:42

don't take those risks don't want to step into something that's unfamiliar or uncommon or you know maybe even

37:49

unconventional like that can be perceived as a risky thing to do but honestly we

37:54

I History of true hope shows that, doesn't it? Oh, absolutely. Okay. That's a history of taking steps,

38:01

a his courage against against fear, moving forward, if you will. So, I I

38:10

totally am with you there. I think

38:15

the hardest part that my experience and certainly myself personally the hardest part of integrating this new

38:23

way of thinking is it's so different

38:29

than what I've learned. What I've learned is I've got to overcome and counteract and fight against as opposed

38:37

to in a in a kind of a mindful sense. Oh, this is what I'm experiencing. This

38:42

is the threat of that feeling. Yeah, that threat has no basis in current reality, but it sure feels real.

38:50

Sure does. Because it will feel real. Yeah, that's the hard part. It feels real

38:56

because the emotional brain does not know time. Thinking brain knows time.

39:02

Absolutely. What what um what differences do you observe when someone's brain is well supported

39:09

biologically versus when it's under resourced? Oh, that's a great question. Um

39:24

often times you will find I I have found individuals will get stuck in moral

39:30

neuropysiological patterns. Say for example depression whether exogenous or in they get stuck in a depressive state

39:38

hard to get out of generalized anxiety states not able to express themselves

39:44

and I was working with a client yesterday who is because of being

39:50

underresourced because she's in a constant state of threat and

39:55

her anxiety she's lost 18 pounds for no reason at all other than the fact that

40:01

distress is causing her and it's a source of concern. There's no Oh, yeah. Logical reason for it.

40:07

Super common as well. Oh, ex exact or the other end which is

40:12

I'll eat a lot as a way to soothe myself or I'll use alcohol or drug. I mean, you

40:19

know, our addictions primarily are protective mechanisms. Yeah.

40:24

Yeah. And um examples just like that that might seem very different, you'd

40:30

actually have a probably if you went a conventional route, you'd have a very different diagnosis. You'd have a very

40:36

different um health protocol rather than, you know, you can actually go back and look at those things and they very

40:42

have a very similar root cause, which is also very interesting. And yeah, you mentioned, you know, we've got

40:47

an unprecedented rise in anxiety, depression, ADHD, emotional

40:52

dysregulation. From from your vantage point, how much of this do you believe

40:58

is linked to that chronic stress and chronic nutrient deficiencies that's affecting that is affecting brain

41:04

function? Oh, I I we do a lot to a lot of people

41:09

do a lot of things externally to take care of themselves. Yeah. stress management, but not a a lot

41:16

of things internally and being taking care of your brain in

41:22

terms of how you eat, how you all of that is important. We all know that. We all recognize that after we're finished

41:28

this, I'm going to go for my three and a half mile walk, my aggressive just

41:33

because it's just important to do. Uh um but it combining what I think is

41:42

emotional work, deep emotional work. What are these feelings about? What is the threat that's contained in this with

41:49

good nutrition, exercise? I mean it can be a very full and rich life in that

41:56

way. Yeah. and uh one not free of symptoms but able to change and reduce what I

42:05

call the emotional tyranny of the past. Mhm. You know, there's a tyrant in us,

42:13

but it's actually a protector. It's a part that wants to protect us, but it

42:18

gets in the way. And so, it's kind of controlling our lives, even though it it

42:24

goes it goes from way way a long time ago. Yeah. you know uh um yeah no I I I

42:31

think there's a lot there's so much research as you know in terms of levels

42:37

of consciousness now that are happening and how do we increase our level of consciousness beyond just survival

42:47

to thriving to thriving in all its dimensions yeah I um in my experience with like big

42:54

change and the things that And when people actually do that, it often comes down to unfortunately tragedy and

43:02

trauma. When that comes into somebody's life, that's when consciousness and awareness is shattered for a lot of

43:08

people and actually gives them the capacity to think about significant change. Whether that's death

43:14

to death to a family member, um an accident, something like that, that unfortunately it's something like that

43:20

that usually um triggers things for people. And it's a shame that that's the

43:25

route that you know it takes for a lot of people to kind of like let's say wake up to the

43:32

past behaviors that we have that aren't serving us in the future. And yeah, it's a it's a struggle

43:40

that we have to Yeah. The old saying, what is it that you you have to really hurt first before you get better or

43:46

you've got to hit bottom before you to get up. A lot of phrases like that. Um I don't

43:54

you know I suggest it doesn't have to be that way. No

43:59

then and I talk about a process called trigger informed mindfulness. In other words, what triggers me out there with

44:06

people at work? What triggers me so that I have a reaction and it is a out of

44:15

anxiety. And if I can begin to track those and become aware of them, all of

44:20

those, other than somebody physically threatening me with a gun to my head,

44:25

all of those are threats of an emotional nature that have no basis typically in

44:32

reality. But you made a comment. I want to come back to it. Physical pain and emotional pain are

44:39

very or social pain are very close in the brain. The locations of that pain are very close. So often times emotional

44:47

pain can generate physical pain and we feel it. I many people I've worked with

44:55

they not unusual to create somatic problems which in fact are

45:00

manifestations as you know. Oh 100%. Yeah. Of of an internal intracychic

45:07

issue that is causing a lot of stress. A lot of stress. Yeah. You can absolutely think yourself

45:14

to oh disease but you can also think yourself back to full health as

45:19

well without question. Yeah, the body has got this remarkable

45:25

arsenal, this pharmacy of chemicals in which it can do quite phenomenal things,

45:31

but we have to obviously give it the right circumstances in order to access that and that's the um I don't want to

45:38

say struggle, that's the challenge that we we have, but we know it's it's available.

45:44

You know, I appreciate what you're talking about there. One of the things that I talk about in the book is our

45:50

brain has an emotional immunity to change. If that change involves pain and

45:58

suffering with regard to the change we want to make. So the brain perceives

46:04

a threat just like our immune system perceives an organism. It perceives a

46:10

threat and it turns on its protective mechanisms to fight that threat. And it

46:16

also has a memory system. It remembers that pathogen. So that's why vaccines

46:21

play such a role. So what happens is if it encounters that pathogen in the

46:27

future, it just turns on that effects mechanism. Our brain does the same

46:33

thing. If it encounters pain and suffering with regard to something we do or something we experience that we want

46:41

to do different, we want to do something different. But if the the brain learned

46:46

doing that will involve pain and suffering, it turns on its own emotional

46:52

immunity which is anxiety and then the self-sabotage mechanisms.

46:58

It very they function very similar. They both have this immunity. One the brain's

47:04

immunity though is very stifling. The other one is very helps us thrive. Helps

47:10

us thrive. That's right. We um before we you know jumped on air and we we we got together

47:16

to do this podcast, I recommended that you you should check out the latest documentary on True Hope. It's called um

47:24

it's called Epiphany, the True Hope Battle. It's a documentary that's available on our website. I'll leave a link in the show notes, but I'd love to

47:30

get your I'd love to get your feedback on that. You know, um True Hope, you know, we we're a company. We're, you

47:36

know, there's a there's a few elevator pitches I give to people, but essentially what we're trying to do is

47:42

to provide people the necessary nutrition they need to to thrive. And

47:49

the reason we do this every day is because we don't want other families to suffer like the Stefan family suffered.

47:55

And that epiphany was a a gift from God in the words of Anthony Stefan, the founder. And it's our job and our role

48:02

here to get that this product into the the

48:08

brains and bodies of people who who are struggling. So, I'd love to just, you know, what did you think about the movie

48:14

and, you know, what does it make you think when it comes to nutrition, nourishing the brain, helping people get

48:20

into, let's say, a safer brain space in order to make those changes and how that connects with your work?

48:26

Well, first of all, um I found that my experience that was very moving and

48:33

inspiring and it was it took a lot of courage to to do that to confront it's

48:40

Canada. Health health Canada. What is it called? Yeah, you got it. Health Canada. Yeah. Health

48:46

that was really amazing. It was almost like, wow, boy, I can get it where I

48:51

could go in a lot more details, but I could get where it took a lot of belief, trust, openness, and courage.

48:59

The the thing that's interesting is you're asking a

49:04

you're asking an industry to make a paradigm shift in how they think about

49:10

healing. And we both know that paradigm shifts

49:15

take a long time to happen. Yeah, it take it because there is so much vested in the old paradigm. I I see it

49:22

in my work. This is a new paradigm. This way of dealing with issues, problems. And what y'all are doing is the same

49:29

thing. So it I oftenimes think, you know, it takes one or two generations to

49:35

make a paradigm shift. Maybe not now. It used to because the internet, but now it can be faster.

49:43

But I I couldn't agree more

49:48

that the the epidemic of depression and

49:55

anxiety in our country is a function both of an emotional process and a

50:01

neurohysiological process. Both of which, you know, I

50:06

was very interesting. I because my daughter suffers from depression and I I

50:12

said, "Honey, you need to see this. You need to see this. This this is really

50:17

this really resonates and you know, it's something to consider rather than the other stuff that that

50:26

you take." Yeah. Uh um and I thought that was I mean she hasn't

50:32

done it yet but I keep encouraging her to do so. Yeah. It's it's it can be tricky for

50:39

people. I think what we've spoken about today in regards to um the the brain and the body's resistance to change

50:46

because people are are in a fight or flight mode a lot of the time and that's being

50:52

triggered by patterns of the past. Yep. it it's very challenging to step

50:57

into the alternative to that when you're undernourished like you know your body will you know your body is stressed when

51:02

it's undernourished so therefore it's challenging to be in a place where you can think about making big significant

51:09

changes and without question the connection between emotional dysregulation you know you could call

51:16

that emotional deficiency and you know emotions these b these biochemicals that

51:21

they're made up of something there are building blocks that are necessary to to be absorbed, to be able to make those,

51:27

to get them to function. And if you are undernourished, you're not going to be able to

51:33

manufacture these these neurotransmitters, these hormones that we absolutely rely on for thousands of functions every second of the day.

51:40

Amen to that. And I would ask, Simon, your body's energy budget

51:47

gets depleted. Capacity. Yeah. It really gets depleted. And as a result, I mean, I work with many,

51:53

they're tired at the end of the day. Well, they're working so hard and I don't think there's enough nourishment

52:00

both, particularly neurologically for us to really learn and there's a lot

52:07

uh that's going on and research in that as you know. But boy oh boy, when we get depleted, the last thing we need is

52:16

alcohol or drugs or something that is manufactured or a energy drink, you

52:22

know. I I I No, no, that's not a good idea. It pumps you up, but

52:29

depletes your energy budget and you become dependent. Your body become dependent on that stuff.

52:35

Yeah. you'll um you'll never convince me that your depression is a Zoloft Prozac

52:42

deficiency and that's how and that's how we treat it drug model

52:48

like you can you can maybe convince yourself of that perhaps and I I understand

52:53

people get in desperate situations and they should be able to go to their doctor and get support and um

53:01

therapeutic solutions but the the ones we have on offer right now are um aren't

53:07

the answer. And we spoke about paradigm shifts and how long that takes, just like my brain,

53:13

just like my family, just like the pharmaceutical industry. They're all organisms, you know, that live and

53:19

breathe. Yeah. And they take time to evolve. They take time to adjust. They risk assess. And

53:25

you know, a a na a natural health product that is literally just food that

53:30

can't be patented, that can't be made into a billion-dollar product, um is a

53:36

risk to a, you know, an industry that relies its bread and butter on the drugs

53:43

I just mentioned, Zoloth, Prozac, all these things. And it's it's a it's a

53:48

scary idea to Health Canada, the two pharmaceutical industries that that this could be uh let's just say a competitor.

53:54

And yeah, it takes a lot of paradigm shift within these within these organiz organizations and organisms. Yeah, it's

54:01

definitely it's definitely threat just as I think this paradigm shift in neuroscience and change is a threat

54:09

becomes we have to adapt now differently and boy you know

54:15

as much as there's resistance to change it's because we don't know how to cooperate and I think we're learning how

54:23

to cooperate to make help change happen we call resistance is really the brain's

54:28

no the threat to The what would be the razone detra if all of a sudden people

54:35

could heal themselves with natural neutrauticals instead of pharmaceuticals.

54:43

Yeah. Yeah. And I I've well I've had this conversation literally thousands of times but

54:49

most people recognize that our soil and our food doesn't carry the nutrient

54:54

profile in which it used to have. Therefore, you I don't think you can eat well enough to get the nutrition your

55:02

body requires on a day-to-day basis and then you throw in the stress of just living in 2026. Um your that capacity

55:10

that you have that that glass of energy just gets more and more depleted and you

55:15

know it makes sense that people are just like done and they've got nothing left,

55:20

right? that they would go to a behavior like, you know, junk food or um you

55:26

know, watching watching a show for five hours and binge watching things, you know, to just like step out step out of

55:32

the reality that you've just got this depletion. Yeah, I I I understand those behaviors, but sure,

55:37

it's um it's important to know that there are solutions out there for you. And you know, especially here at True Hope, we're happy to have phone

55:44

conversations by email or or whatever to kind of help people guide them on their way because yet we've worked with over

55:50

half a million people coming off medications and, you know, living a wonderful fruitful life. And for a lot

55:56

of people, we're we're their last hope because a life on know four, five plus

56:01

medications isn't really a life at all for a lot of people and they want something different. They want solution.

56:07

I have worked I will tell you Simon, I have worked with so many people that have been three, five medications.

56:14

It's just I mean it's kind of zombie. It's really hard, you know.

56:19

Yeah. Most of those medications are there to take care of the side effects of the other medications and it's ain't

56:25

right. Yeah. And it's Yeah, it's a it's a baffling system that that that is unfortunately our norm, but I will to my

56:33

dying breath be a voice for the alternative. Um I'd love to just finish

56:39

off with a question on in on integrating everything we've spoken about and hope.

56:44

So if someone's feeling stuck despite therapy, insight, effort, um what would

56:51

you want them to understand about their their brain, their body, and the possibility of real change?

56:59

Great question. So if I feel stuck,

57:04

it means there's something I want to do and there's something in my way. That's the stuckness, you know. So when any of

57:12

us feel stuck in something it I suggest not always but I suggest

57:17

it's because the brain is predicting that if I get unstuck

57:24

I am going to suffer. I don't know that consciously. I just kind of feel it you

57:30

know and and I'll be damned if I do and damned if I don't. So I end up being stuck. But there's something I want to

57:37

do. The first thing is to identify what is it I want different for myself.

57:42

Do I want to follow an exercise plan? Do I want to be able to do public speaking? Do I want to

57:49

get into an intimate relationship and and get closer to a partner? Do I want to stop being so be calmer as a father

57:58

and more present to my children and my wife? What is it? What's the positive difference? Get in touch with the

58:04

positive difference. Imagine doing it. Notice what happens in your body. What

58:10

would I do if I was unstuck? And that's a challenge for many of us because we think about, well, I wouldn't

58:16

be unhappy. We think in the negative, not the absence of a negative, which is not a positive

58:22

to identify what is the positive difference first. Secondly, imagine doing it and

58:29

you're going to become anxious. Your body is going that's guaranteed. You're going to feel distress, tight chest,

58:36

tight gut, tight whatever it is, whatever your somatic markers are.

58:42

Let yourself feel it and then recognize the brain is doing

58:48

this because the thing that I want to do for the brain, for the emotional brain,

58:54

involves pain and suffering based on something I learned a long time ago.

59:00

What is the threat? And then actually to write it out actually write out if I do

59:06

this if I am unstuck if I I work with many people that had depress depressive

59:12

symptoms if I'm depressed then I will be I'll be more expressive and more happy

59:18

and I asked a member of person I said what happens if you do that take a look at all your friends and your family and

59:26

she said oh my god my family won't like me. I said they

59:34

won't like you. She says yeah because in my family everything's very negative. There's a lot of depression and if I am

59:40

f if I am happy and feeling good I won't belong anymore. Can you imagine that? But that was her

59:47

truth and we had to create then you create prediction corrections

59:54

and you introduce the correction to the brain when you're in the negative state

59:59

that opens up that network and then you can continue to feed positive to your

1:00:04

brain. It will reconsolidate back down and you will gradually see and sometimes

1:00:10

totally eliminate the anxiety that goes with that behavior. I've seen it

1:00:16

hundreds of times in my own life. You know, it's a different way of thinking. It means you don't push away the stuff.

1:00:23

You go underneath and really articulate if this then this.

1:00:29

But wait a minute. And the book is full of stories and examples of all kinds of

1:00:35

all kinds of stories and examples to illustrate. There's a what I call a fivestep human

1:00:42

technology to transform yourself to eliminate the self-sabotage

1:00:49

to eliminate it. And the neuroscience is there. The science is very clear just

1:00:54

like it's clear on what the importance of good nutrition. It's all there.

1:00:59

There's nothing new. It just has to be embraced. Beautiful. Well said, Brian. Um, where

1:01:07

is the best place for people to connect with you and learn more? Uh, Brian D. Ro, dro.com.

1:01:16

The book is on Amazon or at your local bookstore. You can order it. It's in digital and print format. Those are the

1:01:24

best places to do. I don't do a lot of social media because um I don't do a lot of social media. Too busy with other

1:01:30

things. Yeah, I understand. Yeah. Absolutely. It's not for everyone. That's all right.

1:01:35

Yeah. Yeah. Well, Brian, honestly, thank you so much for coming on the show. Such a great topic. I think the more the more

1:01:41

conversations we can have about this and providing people um the options that

1:01:48

there are available in which to enrich themselves and recognize that,

1:01:54

you know, a big thing we're talking about here at True Hope is, you know, you're not you're not broken. You're not broken out there. You know, you're just

1:02:00

deficient. You're not broken. You're not broken. We learn some things that don't apply anymore and therefore we do we make

1:02:08

mistakes. Yeah. Brain does behaviors to protect us. We're not broken. We're not broken.

1:02:14

No, not at all. Agree to say that. I totally agree. Well, thank you so much again, Brian,

1:02:20

for coming on the show. There's there's a few other things I'd love to talk to you about in the future. So, I'm hoping you'll come back on again. You

1:02:26

bet. Be pleased to, Simon. Thank you so much. Many blessings to you and in the work that you're doing. I just really

1:02:32

appreciate it and respect it. Thank you. Beautiful. Thanks, Brian. Well, that is it for this episode of True Hope Cast,

1:02:37

the official podcast of True Hope Canada. Check out the show notes to connect with Brian to learn more. Um,

1:02:43

yeah. Thank you so much for listening, everyone. We'll see you soon.