0:00

This is off record unless you want to put it on the record.

0:05

Okay. Is this something that you want for public consumption? I don't know. Maybe it should be for

0:10

public consumption. So, when we left the courtroom after the judge heard the one-hour

0:16

presentation from being led by Kent Brown of the crown and the one-hour

0:22

presentation of defense led by Shawn Buckley, the constitutional lawyer. And

0:28

we left the courtroom. I remember how upset Shawn and David Hardy were. We've

0:34

lost this. You heard him. You saw what he You heard and saw him and you heard

0:40

what he said that most likely he was going to rule in favor of the crown on

0:47

this voyer. He's already I'm not going to say prejudiced himself, but he

0:53

already has that thinking.

1:05

Welcome back to True Hope Cast, the official podcast of True Hope Canada. This is part two of our three-part 30th

1:12

anniversary special, a series reflecting on three decades of discovery, resistance, and unwavering conviction.

1:19

In the previous episode, we explored the personal crisis and nutritional breakthrough that gave birth to true

1:26

hope. In today's conversation, founder Anthony Stefen and his son David Stefen, who is vice president of Troop Canada,

1:32

take us into the next chapter, the one that changed everything. As word spread

1:37

about a revolutionary multi-nutrient formula known as Empower Plus, thousands of individuals began reporting profound

1:44

improvements in serious mental health conditions. But with growing awareness came growing opposition. This episode

1:51

dives into the most turbulent years in True Hope's history. the legal battles, regulatory pressure, and relentless

1:57

efforts by Health Canada to shut the company down despite mounting evidence and firsthand accounts of lives being

2:04

transformed. This is a story about standing firm when institutions push back, about defending choice and about

2:11

the cost of challenging, deeply entrenched systems. It's also a story of resilience, of a family and a company

2:18

that refused to abandon the people who are finding hope through nutritional support. In part two, Anthony and David

2:25

recount the fight to protect access to Empower Plus, the emotional toll of

2:30

years spent in courtrooms instead of labs, and why they believe these battles mattered far beyond their own

2:36

organization. This is the chapter where True Hope was tested and where its mission was forged in fire. Welcome to

2:43

the True Hope 30th anniversary special, part two. All right, welcome to part two

2:50

of the history of True Hope, a rich 30 years of history with all sort sorts of

2:57

twists, turns, battles. Um, and so we're on to part two. We we discussed last

3:02

time for 90 minutes about really the discovery, the groundbreaking discovery

3:08

that was made based on the tragedy within our own home, uh, the loss of of your wife of 23 yearsish.

3:16

and um and my mother at that time I was only 10 years old so my mother of 10 years and we talked about what led up to

3:25

that and it's a story that unfortunately way too many people can relate to. So, if you have not yet seen part one, go

3:33

back and watch part one. But you're in for a treat with part two because this

3:38

is where it really shows the conviction of your dad in relation to

3:45

um whether or not you had your motive set right. if this was about business or

3:52

if this was about blessing people in the way that we ourselves have been blessed

3:57

through this this phenomenal discovery. Yeah. So, uh there's now a bottle of of the

4:03

empower plus because we really ended off the last portion of the podcast where

4:09

you you were talking about the necessity to now produce our own product even though that was not the intention

4:15

before. The quad program was working well. the synergy quad program that you acquainted us all with uh with the four

4:23

different products, a clonal mineral supplement, a calcium magnesium phosphorus supplement, a multivitamin, and grape seed extract and how that was

4:30

producing significant results in people's lives. Complicated, expensive,

4:36

uh but worthy of being studied. But halfway throughout the study, everyone

4:42

started to revert. Their symptoms began to return, but it wasn't just happening in the study. it was happening at home

4:47

and now you and David Hardy were on a journey to create your own all-in-one supplement that would ensure that people

4:53

were getting the results that they were looking for. So, we're about 1998 at this point in time in in the history.

5:00

What did that end up looking like to produce your own supplement? I know there was a sense of trepidation

5:06

surrounding it, uneasiness, if you will. Oh, there really was. But we we absolutely recognize the need to have a

5:14

guaranteed label claim so that if a person bought the bottle

5:19

and it said it has this much B1 in it, that's how much would be there,

5:24

right? And of course, we went in with um the US Pharmacopia USB standards

5:32

to have that manufactured and produced productally or produced properly. There

5:39

was a lot of hiccups at the front end with everything. Finding a manufacturer

5:45

that was reputable that would do this for us and do it the way that we wanted

5:51

it done. Not that we believe that we had the full knowledge, but not to allow

5:57

people to interfere in adversely affecting the outcome of

6:03

the product. And that was a big thing. There was a lot of resistance. Why do you have this agent in there? Why don't

6:12

you put this one in? There was a lot of suggestions that we had to work through. And sometimes manufacturers get pretty

6:20

I'll say ramy pretty pushy on their own person. Well, we've got a nutritionist

6:25

here and he's studied this for 15 years and he's an expert and we're going to go

6:31

with him. I'm sorry. It has to abide in what's there. And what we discovered,

6:38

David, if we modified because one of the manufacturers did modify the product and

6:43

it quit working, right? And we had problems and we went back there. No, this must be built to this

6:52

standard. Now, now when you're saying standard, are you talking about at this point in time, this is 1998,

6:59

unique processes, manufacturing processes, very specific processes that were foreign to

7:06

many manufacturers at that time because they were accustomed to producing vitamin mineral supplements in this

7:11

particular way versus the way that you were advising them. a a certain amount.

7:17

Yes. Because we had to develop a delivery system and we realized that

7:23

delivery is where it's at. That's what's going to

7:28

take it into the cellular mass of the body. So when you say delivery, you're referring to bioavailability, the body's

7:35

ability to assimilate it, pull it into the bloodstream, and actually utilize it at the cellular level,

7:40

crossing the bloodb brain barrier, making sure that the nutrients are getting to where they need to go. Exactly. M and when we began I believe

7:47

it was 48 capsules that people would take per day. Now that sounds ludicrous.

7:52

That does. So somebody comes to you with bipolar and you're saying here we've got a product for you now called Empower Plus.

7:59

It's not even called True Hope Empower Plus on the label. It's just Empower Plus with this happy person, you know, kind of doing a dance on there, right?

8:06

Oh, yeah. And it's a large bottle. I mean, this is a tiny bottle. It's a large bottle that that is really and it has 448 capsules

8:13

in it. Yes. and you're saying, "Hey, we've got a solution for you. Take 48 capsules per

8:20

day." And how do you want to eat that? Breakfast or lunch with gravy or not? Because it was a full meal deal. It

8:27

really was. It was hard for people to choke down 48

8:33

uh double. That's the size of the large capsules. The large capsules. And to consume 48

8:40

was quite an undertaking. And were people doing it? Yes. And they were having a profound

8:46

effect. Why? Okay. I was going to say why were they doing it? But you just answered that. Because they're having a profound effect. Exactly.

8:51

Okay. So you at this point in time you have no marketing budget. You don't there is no discussion surrounding

8:57

marketing. Exactly. And is it growing? Yes. The word of mouth. The phone kept

9:03

on ringing. We weren't advertising. We didn't have to advertise. People would

9:08

call their sister Margaret. Margaret, I'm on this product and my depression is

9:14

gone. You should try this. And Margaret's got bad PMS and she's got

9:19

some anxiety and some depressive issues. Well, she she saw the same effect. And

9:25

so it was growing on its own by virtue of the fact that it was actually radically transforming lives.

9:33

Absolutely. But people complained, can't we do anything with the 48 capsules?

9:40

That's huge. Okay. So, so just to kind of fasttrack this now. So, now we get to the year 2000. You've had the product for two

9:47

years. You change the chelating agent, which for those that that are listening, that's just when you take a mineral and

9:52

you bind it to an organic molecule of sorts. And there's all sorts of variations of chelates and not all

9:57

chelates are the same. Some work really well, some don't work almost at all. And so, you change the chelating agent,

10:04

which was already working well. I mean, people are getting their lives back. And by doing so, same bottle, same

10:11

ingredients, but now people are taking 32 capsules per day by the year 2000. Yeah. The delivery system was better.

10:18

Exactly. We learned piece by piece, line upon line, how to

10:24

do this. That was a process of learning. And we had to be very careful that we

10:29

didn't get caught up. Well, this is working. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. That

10:35

kind of attitude, right? We had to look beyond that and we would set up focus

10:41

groups and try this and yes, look at that. Look at that. They're taking less

10:47

and getting more. Right. So by the year 2001, you're it's highlighting that even though a

10:53

significant improvement had just been made, you went from 48 capsules per day down to 32 capsules per day for the

10:59

therapeutic dose. Yes. But then in one year later you began to start the process of

11:05

micronizing the minerals and just by virtue of doing that same formula, same

11:10

ingredients, same balance, label reads the same. And yet now people are taking 18 capsules per day and getting the same

11:17

results that they were on the 32 capsules per day or if you know 3 years previous 48 capsules per day.

11:24

Exactly. and they weren't having the same side effects that were presented

11:29

from their medications because we had to set up a titration system. We found like

11:35

if you'll recall from part one going back there for a minute, Autumn was

11:41

extremely overmedicated on day three, right? Do you recall that? Yep. Well, we learned piece by piece,

11:49

line upon line, that the medications

11:54

were actually potentiated by the nutrients. Why? Because the body

12:02

improved. The chemistry within the body improved and as they took medications,

12:08

they had a more profound effect. And so, we saw the side effects coming out

12:13

because now they're overmedicated. So let's put this in perspective really simply. So if somebody is producing

12:20

adequate amounts of serotonin on their own, right? They have all of the co-enzyme factors that facilitate the

12:26

conversion of the amino acid tryptophan into five HTTP or five hydroxy tryptophan and then into serotonin.

12:32

They have all the ingredients necessary, which is just nutrition by the way. And now they're already producing

12:39

serotonin. If you were to give an individual like that a selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor which

12:45

prevents the re-uptake of serotonin so it allows for more serotonin to be free. What's going to happen to that person

12:51

who is already producing serotonin at an appropriate rate?

12:56

Well, they're going to have the medical effect that stated that could happen the side

13:05

effect perform that's in the monograph for the drug. They all state it. I mean,

13:12

you can end up in a position of psychosis, serotonin syndrome, which is very, very,

13:18

very difficult. You can and actually dangerous for the the brain. Absolutely dangerous. And there are

13:25

many, many listed side effects on the monographs for the anti-depressant

13:31

SSRI class. And people could actually get into that giving a psychotropic

13:39

psychiatric medication to someone who has balanced levels of

13:44

neurotransmitters, neuropeptides isn't going to make them into a superhum,

13:50

right? It's going to maladjust them. They're going to be out of harmony, out of

13:56

balance, out of homeostasis, and they're now in a state of dysfunction. Totally. Okay. So, so basically what you're

14:03

finding then right off the bat is that and we haven't talked about the the ingredients, but you got 36 ingredients.

14:09

36 vitamins, minerals, amino acids, and antioxidants found in the Empower Plus.

14:14

Yes. And the product is still the same today. And and they all clock together. It works like a like a a clock mechanism.

14:22

every little cog, the co-actors from the vitamins and the different minerals that

14:28

are together in a bioavailable set. That's essential. Yeah. So synergy, they're working

14:34

synergistically, which is probably why I'm assuming that's one of the reasons why that's why we called it because it was a

14:40

synergy. Okay. And it worked together. If we modified that, it quit working,

14:46

right? And we've seen that time and time again with other individuals trying to produce me too products. They either

14:51

don't understand the bioavailability aspect. So they get the ingredients right and but it's not working because

14:57

they didn't understand the process behind the scenes to allow for the delivery of those nutrients. Yes. Or you have people that take it and then

15:03

they modify it and it just doesn't seem to work. Or it can actually create disastrous

15:09

effects by throwing the balances out or taking additional minerals outside of the scope of the 36 nutrients.

15:16

Right. Balance. Exactly. And we learned that through trial and error and yeah

15:23

over a course of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of individuals

15:31

right in our database there's over a half a million people who are no longer taking

15:37

medications. So, let's let's get let's get to the whole database thing here because you were just talking about the

15:44

effect that medications were having where we're starting to see the normalization of of of production of

15:50

neurotransmitters also hormones as well because hormones and neurotransmitters are in essence the same same thing.

15:56

They're messenger molecules in the body and it requires nutrition to produce them to incite the enzyme reactions to

16:03

facilitate either the conversion of in steroidal hormones. Cholesterol into those hormones

16:08

or non-steroidal hormones the the uh precursor the beginning point is an amino acid as well as neurotransmitters.

16:15

Well, when we looked at the University of Coyoto's genome work, it was fantastic.

16:21

The keg, which keg program, ironically, started in 1996, the same year that you made this discovery. So,

16:27

the science hadn't caught up yet with what you had discovered through an answer to your prayers.

16:32

Well, what did they show? They showed that the amino acids, minerals and

16:39

vitamins were pre precursors to the different junctions and the ultimate

16:44

creation within its factory within this wonderful mechanism that God has given

16:49

us. It has the ability to create its own neurochemistry. We

16:55

don't eat serotonin, we make it. Right. and and citing their their

17:01

information when they did all the brain mapping and the metabolic uh charting

17:07

showing the metabolic factors that create things like melatonin, larotone,

17:13

mal well I got melatonin already, dopamine, serotonin,

17:18

there are individual precursors that produce it. For instance, if you're going to generate and you want to

17:25

sufficient serotonin that drives your bowel,

17:31

absolutely does. There's more serotonin in the bowel than there is in your

17:36

brain. If you're going to produce that pyrooxal phosphate, vitamin B, and iron are

17:45

essential. If if you're missing those or if you can't uptake those or if they're not found in your diet, if you're on a

17:53

junk food diet that's devoid of any any mineral density and it's all calories

17:59

and fats, you're not going to produce the proper neurochemistry, hormone set, enzymes,

18:06

all that structure that has been designed and functioning under DNA,

18:12

right? which is exactly what what we'd anticipate to see today, a rise in mental illness and other illnesses uh

18:18

related to nutrient deficiencies. Because today our food, even if you're looking

18:23

at fresh foods, when they do the analysis, you're looking at about 1/5if of the amount of mineral content in the

18:30

foods today as what there was with your parents or my my great-grandparents,

18:35

right? Type of thing or my grandparents. And so we see go back to 1992, the WHO summit, the

18:42

World Summit. Yep. Okay. What did they find? That's a section of the United Nations. And they

18:49

did good work. They showed that North American top soils were more degenerate,

18:56

if you want to put it that way, or deficient in mineral than what China was.

19:03

Yeah. Why China? China's been there for what 5,000 years. We don't know. And we've

19:09

only been here a couple or 30 hundred years upon this continent with with our agricultural practices. Yeah.

19:15

Well, China took all of their honey buckets, all of their human waste,

19:20

put it out on the land. Mhm. And within that human waste, we're excreting a large amount of mineral from

19:30

our body that's essential. Mhm. It's essential to the production of all

19:35

of these wonderful chemicals that make us emote and have cognitive function.

19:41

Yeah. I know we're digressing from the history here, but this this is I think very valuable for the audience. There's also

19:48

in relation to what we're talking about here, uh, Anie Meyer uh, published, I believe it was 1998, British Food

19:54

Journal, uh, published an analysis that her and her team had done, not on soil sample studies, which she was accustomed

20:00

to doing, but they took 20 common fruits and vegetables and analyzed the levels of minerals found in them versus what

20:07

they were in 1948ish, so 50ear span. And what they found is that many of the

20:12

minerals were uh, devoid by over 80%. And what her and her team concluded and

20:17

there's the science supports it is that it was due to the inception or the beginning of the use of synthetic

20:24

herbicides, pesticides, fungicides and synthetic fertilizers as well and what it was doing to the the microbiome in

20:31

the soil preventing what little little mineral was in there because the she determined

20:38

with her studies that there was basically a 50% reduction in the the mineral content in the soils. Yes. But

20:43

what she found is that it was even worse when it translated into the food because of the sprays they were using. It was

20:49

preventing the uptake of what little mineral was in the soil into that food. So now we see the the the foundation as

20:56

to why we're walking around in dysfunction because we don't have the vitamins and minerals and amino acids

21:02

and all that necessary to facilitate the production of things like hormones and neurotransmitters which are there to

21:08

tell your body what it should be doing which means communication breaks down. We know what happens in a business if

21:13

communication breaks down. We know what happens in a family. If communication breaks down, it becomes dysfunctional. Same thing internally in the body.

21:20

Communication breaks down, you end up in dysfunction, which is often times translates to a diagnosible disease.

21:27

Yeah. And so what really the universities, we'll get into the university studies in a little bit here,

21:34

but unairringly they found that as they

21:39

did the research and applied nutrients to people, their mental aberrations

21:46

disappeared. I once again I hate the term mental illness, but mental illness

21:52

is equal to nutritional deficiency. And that's the bottom line here.

21:58

Yeah. This body was designed to function in light of participating by eating and

22:06

uptaking nutrients. They're essential to our everyday life.

22:13

And just to further let's qualify that real quick because so 1996 your prayers have been answered. Joe gets better.

22:18

Autumn gets better. Phone calls start to come in. uh you never had a a mindset to

22:24

make this into a business, but it just naturally took off with people demanding it, saying, "How do we get better?" Like

22:31

Joe got better, like Autumn got better. Well, we started getting phone calls from people in Pennsylvania.

22:36

Well, my cousin that lives up in southern Alberta said, "I got to take this. How do I get it?"

22:42

Well, that presented a major dilemma. Yeah. We've got to create a corporation

22:47

and we have to be able to produce product that's guaranteed in its analysis so it doesn't fail the people

22:54

fail the mission. And so we had all of this well this huge conundrum. How do we do this and coming

23:02

forth out of that sprang True Hope and so 1996 is the beginnings of it.

23:08

Yeah. Now you mentioned the Kyoto um uh

23:14

University of Kyoto. Yeah. Yeah. So so what happens in 1996 is that you end up with this project called the

23:19

Keg project which is what you're referring to and that's the Kyoto encyclopedia of genes and genomes and they map it out and so I think it's

23:26

valuable for the audience to understand uh exactly what's taking place to why

23:32

vitamins and minerals would have this effect. So what they find let's just go down two pathways real quick please. We all understand serotonin and

23:38

dopamine, right? Or at least to a certain degree, we we understand what they are and that obviously they have

23:43

some effect in our mood, how we feel, and whether or not we are motivated, right? Without dopamine, motivation goes

23:50

down the tube. And so, let's let's just take a look at those pathways really quickly here because there's seven

23:57

specific nutrients in each one of those pathways that will lead to the production of serotonin and the

24:02

production of dopamine. And they actually mirror each other. So, if somebody's taking a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, they're only

24:07

affecting one pathway, but yet the same factors are present in the other pathway that they're not addressing, which means

24:13

you're not going to be producing dopamine if you weren't producing serotonin. So, serotonin starts off with

24:19

tryptophan. You end up with five nutrients inciting the tryptophan hydroxilase enzyme. This can be found in

24:25

the keg uh research, by the way. So those five nutrients necessary and they're called co-enzyme factors to

24:32

facilitate the enzyme working is iron, methyl folate, which in and of itself requires a host of nutrients as well to

24:39

produce methylolate because you don't consume it. You produce it unless you're eating meat from an animal that already

24:45

produced it itself using the nutri nutrients necessary to do so. You're making it, right? So you're supposed to make it and

24:51

at an appropriate rate. So overmethylation is a real issue and that's why we don't have methylation in the product. we facilitate methylation,

24:58

right? And that's a that's a whole other discussion and we've done videos on that in the past and and so you can find those as well that there's a reason why

25:04

we're not putting methylation into the product and very good reason. As you say, it's better to make it.

25:10

You're better off to make it than to take it. That's a a little truism that we have wi within True Hope.

25:18

Your body knows what to do if you give it the proper building blocks of life,

25:25

which are amino acids and vitamins and minerals,

25:31

omega-3 or omega omega fatty acids, essential fatty acids. Exactly. So, those four, if we have those four subgroups and and

25:39

and they're in the proper proportion, oh, no, I shouldn't say that because the body will sort that out more or less.

25:46

You don't have to hit it exactly on the button, but in the proper levels,

25:52

then you're going to be able to function and produce what your body needs.

25:57

Exactly. All these things, asthma, has been proven to be a calcium magnesium

26:03

deficiency. What? How can you say that? Well, just go into respiratory arrest.

26:09

Go into the hospital having a full-blown respiratory attack caused by asthma.

26:15

What are they going to inject you with? Calcium and magnesium. They're actually

26:20

going to mainline that. And within two minutes, your bronchi have relaxed and

26:26

are opened and you're now breathing again. These things are essential to

26:32

every aspect of life. And we've actually seen asthma corrected

26:37

with Empire Plus. Not saying that that's the first go-to, but we've seen it as a as a comorbidity. We've got within

26:44

our database thousands of cases of asthma that have been corrected. Uh IBS,

26:52

irritable bowel syndrome. What's the underlying or the mainline problem there? It's a lack of serotonin

26:58

production. So we load the proper nutrients. The body sorts it out. It's

27:05

not a drug. It's not like taking an aspirin. Mhm. And the body sorts it out and produces

27:11

serotonin. dopamine, all of these wonderful agents, and the body is able

27:17

to function. It needs to have that recipe within it. Perfect. So, let's So, we we were at two

27:24

nutrients or co-enzyme factors. We are at three nutrients because we started off with tryptophan, which is an essential amino acid for the production

27:29

of serotonin. Then you have iron, methyl, folate, and then vitamin C, D, and B3. So, now you have six nutrients

27:36

taking or getting to the point of producing 5http. And then you brought up the pyrooxine 5 phosphate which is

27:43

activated B6. Yeah. Right. Which now that's another thing as well. What activated it? Well, that's

27:49

another enzyme reaction that required nut nutrients. But you have activated B6 present. Now

27:55

you've got your seventh nutrient and now you have serotonin. That's the simple recipe. That's what the keg project

28:00

Kyoto encyclopedia of genes and genomes identified. Now when you take a look at dopamine, it's the same thing other than

28:06

the fact that it starts off with tyroine instead of tryptophan, but requires the

28:12

same first five nutrients to enzyme to convert it to L-dopa and then it requires P5P or pyrooxine 5 phosphate to

28:18

convert it to dopamine. So, you know, this is valuable for the audience because now they get maybe a snippet of

28:25

the fact that it's just seven nutrients necessary to get from point A to point

28:32

B, which is the production of serotonin. But now serotonin also converts into melatonin, which requires a few more

28:37

nutrients as well, the hormone of sleep. Right. Exactly. I can't sleep.

28:42

Well, take a look at your levels of serotonin. It'll tell you the story. Right. Yeah. Exactly.

28:48

Yeah. Exactly. So, well, what you've identified here and and I'm glad that you brought up all those um the keg uh protocol or the

28:58

genome study identified junction points in order to get to the production. Well,

29:04

let's say serotonin and there's nutrients involved in all those junction points. What happens if

29:11

you pull one nutrient out? Boom. Stop. It fails. What happens if you can't uptake iron very well? What

29:19

happens if if the food that you're consuming is very low in iron? Well,

29:25

you're not going to produce the serotonin that you need. Y and you're going to be growling at your dog. What happens if you live in a

29:31

northern country where your shadow is longer than your height is? Because as soon as we're there, there's inadequate

29:37

levels of UVB radiation exposure from the sun to convert the it's 7D hydro cholesterol

29:44

within your skin into coliferol which is vitamin D. Vitamin D3. Exactly. So if you don't

29:51

have the vitamin D3, you also won't produce dopamine, you won't produce serotonin, you won't produce a host of

29:56

of neurotransmitters and hormones in the body. And so as so if you're living in

30:01

northern country, that's why depression is so rampant in the winter months

30:07

within the northern countries. Now you you brought this up and this is amazing because it demonstrates the

30:13

miracle. You see, I didn't know anything about nutrition.

30:19

My friend David Hardy was an animal feed specialist. He didn't

30:24

know anything about nutrition. This thing came together pl perfect perfectly. Had one item been missing or

30:34

insufficient values, we wouldn't have the success that we have in helping

30:40

people to change their lives. Right? You see, it's it's it's absolutely miraculous when you boil the whole thing

30:46

down. The simplicity of the way that God designed this thing to work and the

30:53

harmony of all these nutrients are absolutely essential to the dialogue

31:00

of that dark statement mental illness. So now it's correcting mental illness

31:05

and people are coming to you on medications and they're not necessarily calling you true hope, they're calling you their last hope, right? Because

31:11

they've exhausted everything. I've heard that. I'm I've well about a month ago, two months ago, had a fellow

31:18

call me from Southern British Columbia, Canada, and he said, "I'm done. I'm

31:24

locked up in my basement. I'm going to take my life if this I've heard a little

31:29

bit about what you're doing." The lady at the store said, "Take this. It'll help me." Well, I've got hold of you.

31:35

Thank you for your time. But but is this a scam? No, it's not a scam. In fact, I'll send you four bottles and then this

31:44

is what you do and you take it. Well, I've been locked up for the last three months. My wife has left me. My kids are

31:51

gone. I have nobody and I have nothing and I'm unemployed. I'm a welder.

31:58

I said, "Wow, man, that that doesn't sound good, but let's work on this."

32:03

Two weeks later, he was out welding again, generating funds to put food on his table. and he's working with his

32:11

family members and he's doing wonderfully well. That's the history of

32:16

true hope. True hope. Why would you call it such a wacky name? Because my friends, there

32:24

only is one true hope in this life and his name is Jesus Christ. We were

32:32

blessed by God to find this unnowledgeable

32:37

uh power engineer and a feed a feed guy that put feed together and sold feed put

32:44

this thing together and it works and it's never really been altered over the

32:50

past 30 years. You have to ask yourself the question about divine intervention

32:57

in sorry it kind of chokes me up this this discussion we have to ask ourselves

33:05

about the divine intervention that we find in each and every one of our lives.

33:11

And I'm speaking with you. It's it's amazing when you think of the help and the assistance that we've all received

33:19

as God's creation. M you know it would sound

33:24

like a very bold claim or an unbelievable story really if it

33:30

wasn't for the fact that there's now 35 medical journal publications on this which I don't want to get into that yet.

33:36

Let let's let's keep this going sequentially here. I'm going to correct you. 37 now. Oh my apologies because well yes.

33:42

No no it's okay because it's growing all the time. These universities we don't

33:48

pay them. We haven't paid them 5 cents. We gave them product and we made up a placebo so they could do double blind

33:55

randomized studies. Yeah. And they're undertaking to do this. We have no influence on the research at

34:01

all. Yeah. But it's all showing a wondrous thing. It's validating the claim that that that

34:07

you're making, which makes it even more unbelievable that this would just come about through the unlikely means that it

34:14

wasn't through academia. It wasn't in a laboratory setting. It wasn't with scientists. It wasn't with

34:19

nutritionists. It wasn't with anybody that you would guess would be part of a discovery like

34:24

this. Yeah, for sure. It was with a broken father, a humble man seeking to save his family. And the

34:32

answer came through prayer. And I don't claim to be humble. I promise you, I was humbled. You were

34:39

humbled because of the terrifying experience that I went through as a father who

34:45

loved my wife and loved my children. Exactly. Yeah. And so it's it's a beautiful thing that

34:51

the science actually validates the unbelievable discovery. Yes. and and so and and sorry 35 medical

34:59

journal publications in specific to this variation of the product and so I apologize

35:05

it it's good and we're going to continue to see more and more research 16

35:11

universities are involved right now in four different countries and at that time when we had 34 studies

35:18

there was 16 different mental I call them aberrations that they studied

35:24

different diagnoses yeah whe whether it's anxiety, OCD, ADHD, depression, psychosis. Yeah.

35:31

Autism, they even found some major answers there. Yeah, that was that was a great study out of the University of Saskatchewan

35:37

with Lewis Meladrona. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, just beautiful things. So, let's get there real quick. Okay. So, that

35:43

so sorry you know the audience we we've got a we've fragmented a bit here. So

35:49

you have to develop a support system because people are getting their brains

35:54

back in for a lack of better terms. The neurochemistry is being produced. The medication has no role being there. So

36:02

if they continue on, they now are starting to see more side effects from it and they have to withdraw off of it

36:09

before they go into a major state of over medication. Correct. Exactly. Okay. So now you're you're realizing,

36:15

hey, wait a minute. We can't just sell them a product and say, "Good luck. Let us know how it goes."

36:21

You you're now beholden to supply them the information necessary to

36:28

provide them the guidance necessary to help them come off of these medications. And there's nobody doing that at that

36:35

point in time. The the doctors aren't doing it. They're learning how to put their clients or their patients onto medications, but nobody is is helping

36:43

people in droves to come off medications. And now you've got thousands of people knocking on your

36:49

door saying, "We're on medications. They're not working. You're our last hope. What can you offer us?" What

36:55

happens? Well, hence comes forth the database because and and we have a very secure database.

37:02

It was secured by a company that did one of the major banks in Canada here to protect the data to keep it safe,

37:10

confidential information. But we we have a number of counselors. Some of them

37:16

suffered with mental conditions before and they they feel indebted and they

37:21

wanted to work and help people to go through what they've been through and get out of it in that sense. So there

37:28

was a database created very protected database and we would

37:33

monitor their symptoms. We would watch for certain data to come forward and

37:39

it's pretty well all the same. You could lay thousands of charts on top of one

37:44

another and you see the lines. The patterns are there. The patterns are there. And so we

37:50

developed a strategy on how to safely assist them to work with their doctor or

37:58

not. We took a lot of people whose doctors wouldn't assist and develop that

38:04

strategy on how to safely get off the medications. We always say to people,

38:10

you don't just crash and throw your medications and stop them abruptly. We

38:16

work on a tit titration process depending upon which medication it is.

38:22

If it's an addictive one like the benzoazipines, things like uh Valium, Dazipam,

38:30

laurazzipam, clinazipam, we have a separate system to assist people in

38:35

working through that because they may have some withdrawal symptoms, but we minimize that because we go out so far

38:43

with them and we don't charge them for this. There's no cost for someone to come to

38:49

us. They buy the product from us. It's not that highly priced, of course. U we

38:55

have to keep the keep the thing going. I we have to hire these counselors. But the amazing thing about it is they get

39:02

the service that they need. Do they need to call in every day? Well, if you do, you do. If you feel like you need to

39:08

call in every week, that's fine. But we assist people in walking through this

39:13

thing. And like I say, it's it's I'm gonna say it's well over half a million

39:20

people who've assisted in removing their medications. And we're going to talk in

39:25

a minute about how we won the right to do that in the Canadian courts. We'll

39:31

bring that up in a minute. But what's really intriguing about this whole process is that it's very, very simple,

39:40

extremely simple. And we're all able to overcome this thing in our life and take

39:46

control over your own health. That's the key. You have to take ownership over

39:52

your health. It doesn't belong to the doctor. It doesn't belong to the counselors. It It's yours and we can

40:01

help you walk through this in a very specific protected way. So what you're really

40:08

discussing there is the fact that you're empowering people which I assume there's a bit of a word play here with the name

40:14

empower plus. Not only does it stand for essential mineral power plus but also

40:20

the name itself as a whole is empower plus because the goal is to empower people to

40:26

ultimately take control of their own health, their own well-being, their own matters in life that they are in control

40:33

that they get to choose what they want to do in life without being debilitated by the the effects of mental illness.

40:40

Correct. Absolutely correct. Well, there have been some enemies and and that's okay.

40:46

Well, let's get to that in a second here. Okay, let's actually get right there. So, the first study is shut down because the

40:54

synergy quad program, four different products that were being used. One of them is a variable, but the

41:00

results initially were really good. Oh, they were. So, now the Empower Plus is is created at this point in time. It's a big

41:06

bottle, 48 capsules per day. Y but you end up approaching Dr. Bonnie Kaplan

41:13

who had already had some workings with you even though initially she didn't want to. She was highly skeptical which

41:20

was a beautiful part of the story but the evidence highlighted that there was something to be looked at and she looked

41:26

at it and said okay let's do something here right and and the story is much more comprehensive than that.

41:31

It is it actually began with Dr. Brian Cole, he's a very wellestablished

41:37

neuroscientist at the University of Lethbridge um center for Canadian Center for

41:44

Behavioral Neuroscience. There you go. Now, they built that for him and part of the reason was is that he discovered

41:49

brain cell regeneration could happen ironically using 22 vitamins and minerals.

41:54

Empower Plus. Well, then then the follow-up study with Empower Plus, which showed a full recovery of of brain

41:59

matter, but also a beyond full recovery of cognition after they had basically

42:04

done a labbotomy. They removed a portion of the frontal loes of the brains or they punched holes in pride.

42:10

Exactly. And and David, my partner at that time, and I went to Brian Cobb. I

42:15

actually started with Brian Cobb years before when I lost my wife to a suicide, and I was so confused. How did this

42:23

happen? And a friend that I was working with at the hospital said you go see Dr.

42:29

Brian Cobb. I took some courses from him University of Lethbridge. So I did and

42:35

uh he had a defined set of thinking on bipolar. He had written the book

42:40

fundamentals of human neurosychology. It's used at the base level in universities all over the world. Him

42:47

it's like a bible and I think they've done like seven eight editions or something now. Yeah. Him and Dr. Ian Wishaw. And so I spent

42:55

some time and he gave me a copy of the book. He said, "You read this and then you come back and see me and I did." And

43:02

it wasn't that many years afterwards that I and David Hardy approached him to

43:09

talk to him and he thought we were crazy. You You can't resolve these

43:15

things. I wrote the book on it. And Brian's a good humble man. He listened to us and he thought, "Well, prove it."

43:24

And I said, "Well, what would happen if we gathered a number of um ADHD children

43:33

with their moms? We'll work with their moms because they're the caregiver. Dads are there, but moms are great, right?

43:39

And so we'll approach them and we'll get 16 lined up and we can give them the

43:48

nutrients. Well, now I'll give you this form. He had a baseline and uh it showed

43:54

symptoms every week and uh we gave them the forms. Uh we did not collect the

44:01

forms. He was very careful. He said you're not going to touch it. So chain of command he's protecting it. Yeah, he's protecting the data. He said,

44:09

"You do not receive those forms. They're sent directly to me. Here's my address. In fact, we'll print out all these

44:16

envelopes. They put them in. They send them to me. And I want to know their

44:21

names, the name of the child, how old, and their phone number, and I'm going to contact them." So, he phoned us up. He

44:28

said, "Tony, um, I've set up appointments for next

44:33

week with these 16 moms. I want to interview them, but I would like you to

44:38

be there, but you can't chime in. Bring David, but you stay out of the conversation. You can listen.

44:45

And he came out of there shocked. He said, "What? Look at the data.

44:51

Look at these moms who are saying their kids aren't aberant. They're they're now

44:57

very judicious in their thinking. They're able to apply themselves." He even phoned a number of the school

45:04

teachers to talk to the school teachers. He got the whole scoop. And then he said to us, "I'm sorry, I can't help you."

45:10

So now, now at this point in time, Dr. Bonnie Kaplan had already rejected you. Is that correct? She had rejected us as snake oil

45:17

salesman. I said, "We're not even selling anything, Dr. Kaplan." But but Brian called her because he said, "I

45:25

specialize in doing rat research. research on rats,

45:30

not humans. And I'm not qualified that. But Dr. Bonnie Kaplan, extremely well

45:36

published, University of Calgary, fantastic lady. I'm going to phone her.

45:41

And she uh decided that she would talk to us.

45:46

And we took our my daughter Autumn with us with her medical records and she went

45:51

through this. And she said, "I don't believe it. I don't believe it because

45:57

there's so many nutrients out there. Why are we not seeing people being healed,

46:02

you know, from this thing? Where's the genesis of this thing? How how could it be? And so she decided to uh we provided

46:11

her some product and we just said play you you give it to people and and she

46:16

got nothing but good reports. And then she took the risk and I say risk I mean

46:23

risk of actually getting involved in this thing not for monetary uh processes

46:31

at all. She was very scrupulous. You're never giving me anything other than some

46:36

free product. That's customary. As in she wouldn't even let you buy her a cup of coffee. No, I couldn't even buy her a cup of

46:42

coffee or a lunch. No, I'm paying my own. and she's a wonderful lady and she

46:47

has great ethical standards. Well, she started to do the work.

46:53

So, now we're into the year 2000 and she studies the product in October of 2000.

46:59

The results are so incredible that she publishes the preliminary results and

47:04

Lloyd Robinson, right? Or Robertson. Robinson. Robertson. Robertson. Lloyd Robertson, the head

47:11

anchor CTV national news. Yeah. and and it debuts in October of

47:16

2000. Yeah. Now, now at this point in time, you were

47:22

operating with a mindset that we need to get this into the hands of doctors. Oh, absolutely. This needs to be

47:28

flooded. This is a major breakthrough. How how can you how can you heal people

47:34

that are on the incurable list, right? So now

47:39

you're in essence, the vision is get this into the hands of doctors. Get it so it's prescribed. Get it so it's

47:45

readily available and access. It's accessible, available, financially affordable because socialized medicine

47:52

that is become part of the formulary across all of the different provinces that when somebody goes to their doctor

47:57

and they say, "I'm depressed." Well, before we get you onto a medication that has all sorts of side effects, why don't

48:03

we try this first? It's just nutrition that you need on a daily basis anyways, try it out. The results are fantastic.

48:08

First resort, right? Exactly. And then if that doesn't work, then we'll examine. Right. But for the vast majority of people, it's working.

48:14

So that's what you're moving forward with is that mindset. Exactly. Now, this goes onto national news. How

48:21

are you feeling at that point in time when you see it all of a sudden it's on national news and you're talking on

48:28

there and David Hardy is is on there talking about the pigs and the genesis

48:33

of it, the story and and you know, it's now getting out there mainstream. How are you feeling in that

48:40

moment on that evening of October 2000? I want to let you know that I was absolutely elated. Wow. What a godsend.

48:47

This is absolutely amazing. It's getting the world by the tail. Here we go.

48:53

Wondrous. So now you're you're you're thinking that hey, this is going to this vision of getting into the hands of

48:59

doctors, it going mainstream families all across Canada being blessed. And obviously if it's happening in Canada,

49:05

it's going to happen in the UK. It's going to happen in New Zealand and Australia. all the Commonwealth nations. It's going to happen in the US and it's

49:11

going to spread like wildfire where it becomes a part an in integrated part of Western medicine.

49:18

Exactly. What happens the next day after that news aired? Well, it was interesting. The morning

49:24

after I was in my little office in the house that we lived in and my phone

49:30

rang. Hello. Is this Anthony Stefen? Yes, it is.

49:38

This is so and so from Health Canada. Who gave you the authority to speak on

49:44

national news? What? I I didn't think I needed to have

49:51

authority. Well, you do. And you're going to take this down and you're going

49:56

to make this whole thing go away. Do you understand? Well, I can't. My children

50:03

need this for their life. We're not talking about this. You're going to make this thing go away. Do you understand?

50:11

Click. All right. So, now contravention of section 3132 of the Food Drugs Act.

50:17

Yes. Okay. They're telling you that that in order to help somebody with bipolar disorder, you need a drug identification

50:22

number for a multivitamin. Yes. And we got three cease and desist

50:28

orders from Health Canada. Now, they're telling you shut it down. You need a D number. Are they going to give you the DIN number?

50:34

No, not at Did you attempt to get the number? We worked. We worked fast and furiously

50:39

to do the best that we could to accommodate them and to align ourselves

50:45

with the legislation. No question. Okay. So now at this point in time, excitement is mounting around the

50:52

research, right? Yep. There's a double blind placebo control trial that's about to take place that

50:57

the Alberta government has funded $544,000 towards. Yes. What happens to that study? It got

51:04

snuffed by who? Health Canada. So they came in and told you that you're in contravention of section 3132 of the

51:11

Food and Drugs Act. You need a drug identification number. Yes. For a multivitamin because it's working

51:17

with people with bipolar disorder and that you can't have the research. That's right. In fact, it was it was

51:24

actually pointed more at Dr. Bonnie J. Kaplan at the University of Calgary

51:29

because they came in and shut the trial down and destroyed there was a lot of funding like you're talking about the

51:36

544,000 that came from the Alberta government, Alberta Science and research authority, a legitimate

51:44

department, a legitimate grant. You're talking about that and you're talking about the other funds that were

51:50

gathered not by ourselves because we didn't put money into it. That was not

51:55

acceptable. So that's a conflict of interest. Well, and did you have money to put into it if you if you wanted to?

52:00

We we were living hoofto- mouth at that point. At that point in time, yeah, because at that point in time, it's still pretty

52:06

small. Yeah. It's growing, but it's still small. And then once it gets to a point that

52:11

you would have been able to afford to fund it, what were you funding for the next couple years from 2000, 2001, 2,

52:18

three, four, and up to 2005? What were you funding at that point in

52:23

time where most people would have been generating a marketing budget? What were you spending the excess funds on?

52:30

Well, we had a wellness operation where people would come to us and we realized

52:35

very quickly that sadly when people struggle with these mental conditions

52:41

are yes, they become dysfunctional. it's not their fault, but they're also

52:46

financially dysfunctioned and that they need help because they can't afford to buy the product. So, we started taking

52:54

out of general revenue and we set up this fund to assist those people so they

52:59

could get the product to help themselves with or family members. you know, I I

53:05

didn't even take that part into consideration, the philanthropic arm of True Hope, and that that that was where

53:10

a lot of the excess funds would be diverted, which is fantastic. So, thank you for

53:16

for getting So, I'm actually going to build up to where somebody else will will or everyone else will pick up, but

53:22

let let's actually keep it going sequentially. So, uh just for the audience, you you'll find out where the

53:28

rest of the money had to go during that those particular crucial years. Uh, but

53:34

we'll get there in in a few minutes here as we we build up to it. Um, okay. So,

53:40

Health Canada and yourself and David Hardy now have a relationship. You're receiving cease and desist orders. At

53:47

one point in time, do they ever give you a plan of action or recommendations saying what you should be doing if you

53:52

want to continue doing this? Sure, they did. David and I wanted to work this thing through very quickly and we traveled out to their head Western

54:00

regional office in Burnham BBC and attempted to visit with them and they

54:06

basically said get out of dodge as in you're not going to market this in Canada. You go down to the US and you

54:14

can operate out of there but you're not operating here and you're not putting that we're going to disallow this

54:19

product. Absolutely. And that's an option that you were actually considering at one point in time. At

54:24

this point in time, I think I'm in my grade 11th or or beginning of grade 12th year, and we're talking about moving to

54:31

Alpine, Utah. Yeah, that's right. And and it looked like it was going to happen. Exactly.

54:37

But something happened. You You decided not to. Yes.

54:42

Why? Because we had to stay and make a stand here. It was essential for the people.

54:49

They had to have the right under the Constitution of Canada under the section

54:55

that provides for life, liberty, and security of the person. And so we

55:02

decided to make a stand on this thing. Amazing. Okay. So now cease and desist

55:09

orders are coming during this time. Let's let's inject this in here even though it's going to it'll it'll

55:15

sideline the flow just just briefly, but go ahead. Would anything particular happen in September of 2002 that was

55:23

groundbreaking for the Ford movement of of True Hope in relation to the discovery?

55:30

Oh, well, we had a momentous occasion with the publication of a documentary

55:36

and who who produced that documentary? Discover Health. Discovery Health Channel. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, any I don't know how

55:43

many people are familiar with Discovery Health Channel today, but anybody that's that's my age or older knows that that

55:49

was the channel to watch if you wanted to know about stuff that was science

55:54

related. It was the go-to. No question. All right. So, they produce a fulllength

56:00

documentary called Impossible Cures, and it's published in September of 2002. How

56:05

far and broad did that go? Oh, it went around the world. I I thought, correct me if I'm wrong, but I

56:11

believe it was published put out there in 67 different languages. That's what I

56:18

I believe. Okay. I I don't I don't recall it being that many languages. I remember it was over 50 countries that they pushed it

56:24

into, which is amazing. Yeah. And it was translated I can't remember how many languages. May maybe it was, but I thought it was a lesser number. At

56:31

one point in time, I would have been able to ring it off, but So, it went far and wide. Wide.

56:36

Oh, yeah. that had a profound impact upon the number of people that were

56:42

taking the product worldwide and so that's how we get to the point where well we ended up opening up into 104

56:48

different countries outside of Canada Canada and the US proper right and largely as a result of that

56:55

documentary absolutely yeah absolutely blessing right so now we

57:00

have this tugofwar taking place you've got health Canada saying go away you're getting cease and desist orders But yet

57:07

you've got news publications and it wasn't just CTV national news that in the following year other news corpse

57:14

hundreds like global and a channel and and then it just continued to build and there was you know magazine publications

57:20

there was hundreds and hundreds of of newspaper articles Shirley Johnson I'm just throwing that

57:27

out living in a small town would go into their their publishing office you know

57:33

like this little herald and say, "Look, I I want to give you a story. My life

57:40

has been altered." And there was So all these publications were popping up all over America and Canada.

57:48

Yeah. And so now this tugof-war is really getting heated because it's not just a one-sided battle where Health Canada is

57:53

saying, "Go away. We're going to shut down the studies." And we do. We did shut down the studies. We're going to try to basically, you know, cut you off

58:00

at every point. But now you have media publications coming out and highlighting

58:06

the credibility of this and people are becoming aware of it. So now we get to

58:11

2003. So September 2002, documentary comes out and it's just starting to build

58:17

momentum. Early 2003 rolls around. What happens? The big raid.

58:22

The big raid. The gunsdrawn raid with the RCMP. I believe there was eight officers there

58:30

on that and nine Health Canada agents coming in about 8:00 in the morning and

58:36

laying siege to our True Hope Support Center located in Raymond, Alberta.

58:42

And at that point in time, they had already cut off the product at the border. Yes, absolutely.

58:48

Putting 3,000 Canadians. There was an embargo. You couldn't uh you couldn't get it. And people were put

58:54

in a terrifying situation. People whose lives have been altered and changed for

59:00

the good all of a sudden now we're begging to have the product

59:05

and they're begging for their lives. Oh, they are crying on the phone. Oh, yeah. So, the support center goes from

59:12

supporting people coming off medications to now supporting them in a time of crisis.

59:17

Absolutely. More of a counseling service than anything at that point in time. Some people started to actually haul the

59:23

product across the border. If you want to put the word illegally, smuggling rings,

59:28

smuggling uh the Mohawk natives, the kind of started hauling product into eastern

59:36

Canada. We didn't incite this. It happened. People were doing this to save

59:42

their loved ones. They didn't have a choice. It was like somebody cut off the

59:49

food supply to your house and your children are starving. It had the same effect. Absolutely.

59:55

Everything within your power. Yeah. Terrifying. Require it. And people were doing that.

1:00:00

Health Canada set up a crisis line. They created a crisis.

1:00:05

Yeah. And all they would do is pass people over to these counselors. You can't have

1:00:10

this project, this danger dangerous product anymore. Dangerous. There was no

1:00:16

evidence to say that vitamins and minerals were dangerous. No. But but the Now this is where it

1:00:22

gets this is what people need to realize. So what Health Canada was saying at that point in time was there's

1:00:29

no evidence to say it's safe. That's right. But there's no evidence to say it's

1:00:35

unsafe. And by virtue of the fact that there's 3,000 Canadians taking it, would that

1:00:41

not constitute evidence that it's safe? Nobody's had any issues with it. They weren't prepared to look at the

1:00:47

truth. That was not what it was about. It was about getting this thing to go away and realizing that the company,

1:00:56

True Hope, was was resisting. Well, they had to resist. We had to do that to protect the people that we love and

1:01:04

honor them with this product. This is a gift. It's an absolute gift. So, they did everything

1:01:11

um unscrupulously. They uh got into the they actually took the database. They

1:01:16

seized it. They phoned all the people that were on. Amazing. Don't take this product. And we

1:01:24

lost I'm going to estimate probably 300 to 350 people out of our database,

1:01:29

which is over 10% of the people that were taking it in total within Canada. Well, at that time there was probably

1:01:35

5,000 people, but we lost 300 to 350 people. They disappeared. And we're

1:01:40

aware that numerous of them did suicide. Yeah. There's no question. And that Health Canada was warned that those suicides were going to happen by

1:01:47

Ron Legendz, the the head of the Alberta chapter of the Canadian Mental Health Association. Exactly. They were well apprised of what

1:01:54

they were doing and they did it in a malicious way and that evidence would actually come out in court. Yes.

1:01:59

So what happens in early 2004 after Health Canada finally relinquishes after they get enough black eyes in the media

1:02:05

and everything other than CBC? CBC was the only media that refused to report on

1:02:10

what Health Canada was doing in a negative way. Well, they're governmentowned. Exactly. Crown organization, right? And

1:02:16

so government propaganda being pushed through CBC. They're off in their own world generating their own strange

1:02:22

media. Meanwhile, all the other news corpse are highlighting what Health

1:02:27

Canada is doing in a negative light. So, Health Canada finally relinquishes in late 2003 and the product starts flowing

1:02:34

across the border again. What happens in early 2004? Well, we ended up being charged

1:02:40

criminally criminally for what we were doing, selling an illegal, dangerous drug. So, let me get this straight. You've

1:02:47

just helped restore and even save the lives of many.

1:02:53

We're okay. So, you've got over 3,000 Canadians taking it. Yeah.

1:02:58

And all of them have been impacted in a significant way. And many of them could claim that you saved their lives. Not

1:03:04

you, but that the answer to prayer that you have been moving forward with has

1:03:09

saved their lives. Exactly. And now you're charged criminally. Well, and at that time, uh, we did have

1:03:15

more people because there were US citizens involved in taking the product, but in our database, we showed over

1:03:23

15,000 medical practitioners slash psychiatrists. We're not talking

1:03:30

about homeopaths, that's fine. We're talking about absolute physicians here. But there was over 15,000 in the

1:03:37

database and Health Canada ignored all that. We had hundreds and hundreds of

1:03:43

letters from medical practitioners. They ignored that. Yep. They had an agenda. This was imposing

1:03:51

itself upon the pharmaceutical industry. It had to go and go quickly. So the

1:03:58

argument could be laid that wait a minute the science isn't there. Health Canada is working in the interest of the

1:04:04

people. But in reality when you look at it, Health Canada was suppressing the science and they were ignoring the

1:04:11

medical experts that were attesting to the fact that this was having this effect and then coming out with the claim that

1:04:19

there's no evidence to support that it's safe. But yet any studies that would have identified that it was safe, they

1:04:25

were already shutting down. Yes. Exactly. So they were trying to create a narrative.

1:04:31

That's what they did. And and so they were cutting us off at every single point in in essence cutting you off from being able to move forward

1:04:37

with this. Okay. So you're charged criminally, you and David Hardy, correct?

1:04:42

Yes. Then what happens? We get to 200 five 2006. 2006 I think is March 2006 is

1:04:50

when I think 2006 it came into the courts. Okay. And of course we plead not guilty.

1:04:58

What's ridiculous about it it's it's only a $350 fine on the books at that

1:05:04

time and we couldn't leave it alone. So how how much was it costing you

1:05:10

before you even gone to court? Oh you could have paid $350 and and said guilty 30 $350. Good. get get out from

1:05:17

underneath it or what did it cost you just to get up to the point that you were almost walking into the courtroom?

1:05:23

What had you already invested? 341,000. They drove us to the point of just

1:05:29

basically a few nights before the trial would begin. They said, "Okay, we're going to make an offer to you. We're

1:05:35

going to go away with this thing, but you're going to pay the $350 fine and just plead guilty and we'll call it

1:05:41

square." And uh sadly I had quite a debate with my partner. I said no because if you do

1:05:50

that they'll be back again the next week and they'll drive us into bankruptcy and

1:05:56

do their level best to destroy this. So you're you're you're say bankruptcy

1:06:02

and this this is to circle back to where were the funds going once it started to

1:06:07

actually grow? 341,000 just to prepare for court,

1:06:14

right? It was going to end up being a three-w weekek long court case, a long course.

1:06:19

There's no question. But um yeah, a lot of funds were lost.

1:06:24

Now, there was discussion that you had caught wind of that they were going to drop the charges. Yeah. In fact, our lawyer contacted us

1:06:31

and said, "Here's the options they presented." And um

1:06:37

I thought that's not the way to go because I'd watched what they'd done to other companies. They drove a lot of

1:06:44

American companies out of Canada. They were doing everything. They had an

1:06:49

anti-nutrient agenda. And we were just on the list, but we were one of the big ones that

1:06:55

they wanted gone because we actually showed therapeutic action. Right. And and by this point in time,

1:07:01

you'd already helped over 3,000 Canadians come off of psychiatric medications. Sure. That's big profit.

1:07:06

Those were lifetime clients. You just removed those clients from from a whole lifetime of medications. Sure. And it was growing. It was growing

1:07:12

on a daily basis. It had its own wings in a sense because there's still no marketing at this point in time.

1:07:17

No, there's just news coverage. There's just no advertising, right? And and that's not even on the

1:07:22

radar. The talk about marketing in the company is non-existent. No, it still isn't. It's still non-existent.

1:07:28

Well, it's not non-existent. We that's that's where I am but okay small ways but we we we operate differently from

1:07:34

the international division but yeah that's right okay so

1:07:42

what ended up happening when they were going to just drop the charges

1:07:48

because I have a a specific recollection. Oh yes. In fact what I did uh I said to

1:07:54

my partner we need to go to court. We need to make this thing public. They

1:08:00

need to get their evidence on the table. We need a chance to speak publicly and

1:08:06

the court is the place to do it. So I contacted I made sure that these

1:08:11

calls were all protected and recorded and I phoned three of the health No, no, just let me jump in,

1:08:17

please. So, I show up to work one lovely morning and

1:08:23

I remember you coming in and you've got a fire going on within you and you

1:08:30

called your boys, me and and a couple of my brothers into the conference room where there is a central television or

1:08:38

telephone speaker telephone. I mean, this is back in 2005 or 2006, early 2006 or or late 2005. And

1:08:48

so we've got, you know, good technology back then, good phone system right on the table, conference room table. You

1:08:54

pull us boys in there and you say, "Join me, right?" And then you commenced on.

1:08:59

Go ahead. Yeah. I contacted three of the Health Canada agents. I didn't threaten them.

1:09:05

No, it wasn't a threat, but it was uh I just said, "You better be prepared because if you lose,

1:09:11

there's going to be lawsuits against you personally." Well, okay. Well, okay. So here here's

1:09:16

my recollection as well. So remember now I mean this is what 20 years ago. This is over 20 years ago now.

1:09:21

That's over 20 years ago. Go ahead. So now they're they're they're saying they're talking about dropping the

1:09:27

charges. Here's my recollection of it and I might botch this is that you phone them and and and with a little bit of

1:09:33

cheekiness and you said, "Hey, we understand that Health Canada is going to drop the charges and this is just

1:09:39

fantastic news because now we're going to sue you for what you've done against the Canadian people." Yes.

1:09:46

Yeah. That's that's the way it rolled out. And so and so then what happens with them dropping the charges?

1:09:52

Well, instantly they phoned uh the crown um the federal crown phoned uh our

1:10:00

lawyer Sean Buckley, a constitutional lawyer, and said, "We're on. We're not dropping these charges at

1:10:06

all." So, in essence, you instigate him to hold charges. Yeah. I remember how upset my partner

1:10:13

was in doing that, but he realized afterwards, and I'm getting ahead of the story here,

1:10:20

that that was an essential ingredient in this process. It had to happen that way.

1:10:26

Otherwise, we would have been cherrypicked for years. They would have done everything that they could.

1:10:33

So, in 2006, we end up in the courts. Yes. What happens? It was about a 3-w weekek

1:10:40

long court case. There was a lot of banting back and forth. We actually put

1:10:45

forth what's called a necessity defense. It's a rarely used part of Canadian law that

1:10:54

allows you to maybe break the law if it's going to save a person's being.

1:11:02

So there's a biblical principle of life over law. Yes. Exactly. And and you see that I mean Jesus himself, Yeshua talks about

1:11:09

that principle about, you know, who here has an ox that falls into the mire that won't pull him out on the Sabbath day,

1:11:15

right? Yeah. Life over the law. Life over law, right? That you preserve life because ultimately life trumps it.

1:11:21

And so in essence, there's built into the Canadian judicial system, into Canadian law, the same principle

1:11:27

applies. And that's a defense of necessity that you had no choice but to to break the law otherwise.

1:11:35

Yeah, people would die. Exactly. People would have died. We already knew that people had died

1:11:41

because you mentioned him before. Ron Leanez, the Western Regional Director

1:11:46

for Canadian Mental Health Association, bore witness in that trial that he was

1:11:52

aware of a number of suicides and he put the blame, laid the blame directly on

1:11:59

the shoulders of Health Canada for their irresponsible actions in taking this

1:12:04

product, this life-saving product away from the people that needed it. Absolutely. And there was a lot of

1:12:12

jockeying back and forth. We came to the point where the judge had to hold what's

1:12:17

called a vier. A vier is a trial within a trial to determine whether or not we

1:12:26

could use the necessity defense. And he was clearly against it. He was he

1:12:33

demonstrated. He said, "I I don't agree with this. I'm required under the rules

1:12:39

of court to hold this voyier and to be able to make a judgment on it. So I have

1:12:45

to do this. So but I'm I'm not agreeing with it at all. As far as I'm concerned,

1:12:50

this is a statuto a statutory defense and it's going to remain that way

1:12:56

clearly. And so it was very interesting contest. He he brought Shawn Buckley

1:13:02

forth and Kent Brown who was leading on behalf of the crown and he said, "Here's the name of the game, the Vier. This

1:13:10

afternoon, you're going to present for one hour, Mr. Buckley. Uh after Mr.

1:13:16

Brown presents uh his offense or whatever you want to

1:13:21

call it, and then I'm going to return to my chambers for half an hour and I'm

1:13:27

going to come forth and I'm going to adjudicate. But chances are I'm going to go in favor of the crown on this case.

1:13:35

So you can clearly see that the judge was prepared to rule against us. And if you didn't have that defense of

1:13:41

necessity, what would have been the outcome of that court? We would have lost almost guaranteed.

1:13:46

And they would have devoured us, right? Yeah. we would have paid the $350

1:13:52

loss while the government of Canada had put in over $2 million

1:13:58

to try and shut us down. So they used two $2 million of taxpayer money. Sure. To try and to try and pull the rug

1:14:05

out on this. This was important to them to create an affront on the Canadian public. Yeah. On the mentally ill. It was a battle

1:14:11

really against the mentally ill is what it was. That's what it was. the the weakest,

1:14:16

most defenseless part of our society and the Canadian government moved

1:14:22

against them. Yeah. You think about that for a while in favor of big pharma.

1:14:27

Pharma. We've seen it. Yeah. If you had told me 20 years before

1:14:34

that this was going to happen, I wouldn't have believed it. No, because I believe that our government was clean

1:14:40

and that they were there to work on behalf of Canadians. No, they're not.

1:14:46

Over 300 people disappeared off the database. People don't talk about it

1:14:51

when they have a suicide in their family. No. Destruction. Wholesale destruction took

1:14:57

place and they created a crisis with their crisis line. They did

1:15:03

everything they can to malign us. And I don't take an affront or an offense at

1:15:09

that. What I what I'm offended over is the fact that the weakest part of our

1:15:15

society was maligned and not shielded and protected like they

1:15:20

should have been. Exactly. Which highlighted that Health Canada had no interest in the health of Canadians at

1:15:27

all. It's absolutely true. And we and we see that evident today. It hasn't ended.

1:15:32

So now during this time you have the vier surrounding the defense of necessity and it's not looking good.

1:15:41

What is it looking like between you Sean Buckley and David Hardy? Okay, I'll speak to that matter.

1:15:48

This is off record unless you want to put it on the record.

1:15:54

Okay. So you you can splice and dice and do whatever you want. Uh, is this something

1:15:59

that you want for public consumption? I don't know. Maybe it should be for public consumption. You can take it out. You can take it

1:16:05

out. You can take it out if if if you don't feel good about it. Let's hear it. Okay.

1:16:12

So, when we left the courtroom after the judge heard the one-hour presentation

1:16:17

from being led by Kent Brown of the Crown and the one-hour presentation of

1:16:23

defense led by Shawn Buckley, the constitutional lawyer, and we left the

1:16:28

courtroom, I remember how upset Shawn and David Hardy were. We've lost this.

1:16:35

You heard him. You saw what he you heard and saw him and you heard what he said

1:16:42

that most likely he was going to rule in favor of the crown on this voyer. He's

1:16:49

already I'm not going to say prejudiced himself, but he already has that

1:16:55

thinking. He has a preconceived notion as to where it should go. And he exhibited that. And you know it was interesting because

1:17:02

I couldn't believe it. We hadn't come this far to fail. We hadn't been

1:17:08

protected in every day of our life in all the trials that we went through as a

1:17:14

people, as a company, in trying to help father's most weakest children,

1:17:22

the so-called mentally ill, just to lose it at this point. So, I went down into

1:17:29

the bowels of the Calgary Courthouse. It's a large large building and there

1:17:34

wasn't a lot of activity on the south end of the courthouse and I went down there by myself

1:17:41

and I sat and I said to God,

1:17:46

"Lord, if you don't come, we're going to lose this battle. Lord,

1:17:52

it's stacked against us. Father, you have to come." And I heard a voice that said clearly to

1:17:59

me, "Well, it never was your battle. It was always

1:18:05

my battle." And I felt I felt the encompassing of the spirit and I saw it

1:18:12

in my mind. I knew that we had won in that very second, absolute second. I

1:18:20

want you to know that God is real. And I'm not giving you a preaching here, people. I want you to know that he has a

1:18:28

direction and a plan to help and to save his children. And in that very moment,

1:18:34

it was revealed to me that we were going to win. I was on a cloud nine. I was

1:18:40

filled with joy and exhilaration. I went back. It was almost hilarious. Those

1:18:47

poor guys, they were outside, David and and Sean Buckley, the lawyer, and they

1:18:52

were just beside themselves. We've lost. We've lost. I put my hands on their

1:18:58

shoulders and I said, "We won. Praise God. We have won." I went into the

1:19:06

courtroom. There was nobody in there. And I closed the door behind me and I locked it. And I knelt down. I said,

1:19:13

"God, please inspire the mind of this good judge. I believe he's a good man,

1:19:20

Lord, but help him to see the truth and the validity of all that's happened

1:19:26

here. Protect him. Protect us. Don't allow evil in here. Let your light shine

1:19:34

within here, Lord. And I got up off my knees after hosting that prayer and the

1:19:40

clerk of the court came in and she said, "Oh, you're in here." And I said, "Yeah."

1:19:46

She said, "Well, open the door if you would and invite them in because the judge is ready to adjudicate." And I

1:19:54

opened the door and I said, "Come on in." I sat beside Shawn and here's David

1:19:59

over here and he came in and he looked different. He looked different. His

1:20:06

countenance was raised. And he said, "After much thought and consideration,

1:20:14

I am going to go with true hope. I adjudicate that they have won the right

1:20:21

to use the necessity defense. Move on."

1:20:27

There you go. Do I believe that we've been blessed? Do

1:20:32

I believe that this wonderful mechanism that was put together by two dummies?

1:20:40

Yeah, I'm going to be honest. Two fools. We didn't know what we were doing. And look what it did. Look at the hundreds

1:20:47

and hundreds of thousands of people who have been healed. I heard people say to

1:20:53

me, "I'm back in my relationship. I was divorced. I remarried. I'm back in my

1:21:00

career pursuit. I'm back in my educational pursuit where I came from. I heard it time and time and time again.

1:21:08

And I don't make the claim that it belongs to me. We were gifted. It was a gift from the

1:21:15

heavens. True. And that's what happened. And then it was three months later that the

1:21:23

judgment finally came out. Praise God. We won. They lost. and they were buried

1:21:30

in the press. There was so much bad press against Health Canada. But, you

1:21:35

know, they phoned me about a month later and they said, "Just want to let you know we don't have to listen to the

1:21:41

judge." Because they also appealed, didn't they?

1:21:46

They were going to appeal. They did actually file an appeal. Yep. And I told Sean, "You're going to

1:21:55

go for abuse of process and we're going to bring families in here who lost their loved ones. Are you sure they want to do

1:22:03

this? Because there could be some possible jail time for some Health Canada agents who broke and violated the

1:22:10

Constitutional Act of 1987." Right. And and actually engage in criminal negligence resulting in death

1:22:17

up to 25 years in jail by the criminal code. Absolutely. So, so they're liable. They

1:22:22

and they've engaged in legitimate criminality and yet they're charging you

1:22:28

with criminal charges. Yes. And now they're appealing and now you're

1:22:33

you're saying, "Okay, we're pulling out the big guns." In essence, we're we're going for liability here. We're we're going to take out all the

1:22:39

stops and we'll be talking to the media and you're going to be interviewing families media where their young

1:22:46

18-year-old daughter suicided because she lost hope. I'll never forget the

1:22:52

time that I got a phone call. Hello. Hi. They pushed me through from the

1:22:57

switchboard. I said, "Yes." Okay. And what is your name? Da da da da. I won't repeat his name.

1:23:04

He said, "I'm going to talk to you. I'm a trained Canadian armed forces sniper.

1:23:13

I don't miss. My wife has been well out of 18 years of

1:23:19

absolute She has been well for two years because

1:23:24

of your product and she's back in the hospital. You're going to give me the

1:23:30

name of three Health Canada agents and I'm sure you've got some addresses to help me expedite this. I'm going to take

1:23:38

them out. That's how serious. That's how serious. We're talking life

1:23:44

and death here. Yep. We're not talking about taking away a card game or something simple that

1:23:50

Health Canada could ban because of safety regulations. We're talking about

1:23:56

lives here. And I said to him, you know, brother, I understand what you're going through. I get really angry at what

1:24:03

they've done because people have suicided and I'm so sorry that your wife's in there, but I can't help you.

1:24:11

You do what you have to do or what you want, but please don't involve me in it because that's not my motus operandi.

1:24:19

I love you, brother. I hope you're okay. Click. Yeah.

1:24:25

When they when that came up because they sent the double spy

1:24:32

to Ian Stewart. Double agent. Yeah. Double agent. Yeah. Trying to play the side of the good cop on our end.

1:24:38

Yeah. Playing the game. And he told her when he decided to

1:24:44

discontinue the communication, he said, "You better tell them up there because I

1:24:49

know you're reporting to them. I know exactly what you're doing because I'm reporting back to Tony as well, but you

1:24:56

better let them know that if it wasn't for Tony Stefen, you'd have three dead

1:25:01

ponies in Health Canada because that guy was serious and he was apparently really good at what he did."

1:25:09

Yep. And they owe him something. Well, the next week

1:25:16

the head of the NHP directorate quit. Yep. Because he saw what they were doing

1:25:23

was incredibly dangerous when they're messing around with the lives of Canadians. Don't mess around with people. We don't

1:25:28

have the right to trifle with the lives of the children of God. And we're all

1:25:34

children of God. Yeah. Yeah.

1:25:40

All right. So, we have now concluded the portion surrounding the court case.

1:25:48

Things continue though, like you we we think that there's a victory. Now, I guess we should probably conclude what

1:25:54

that that victory looked like. So, not only were you found not guilty, there

1:25:59

was an appeal that took place. They withdrew the appeal, right? Yep. It was a precedent setting case

1:26:05

that was protective for the whole natural health product community. Absolutely. Across Canada. So there were

1:26:12

so many blessings that came out of that court case. Well, and that true hope case has been

1:26:17

used as case law in many actions in Canada. The necessity defense that was

1:26:24

won. Yep. Absolutely. It was crucial. So this was a a momentous time in history in relation to

1:26:31

Canadian law, in relation to protective measures being put around the natural health community because it was under

1:26:39

fire significantly before that. Other companies like Purea and Strauss were being attacked. Yes, they were. Right.

1:26:45

And so this was a real blessing in disguise. It didn't look like it initially, but it proved to be a

1:26:52

tremendous blessing. And that really, you know, you got this

1:26:57

discovery that's made. We're now protected because the judge didn't just say not guilty. What else did he say?

1:27:04

Well, he said that the true hope, well, number one, it was a finding of fact that this product works,

1:27:10

right? Well, because Dr. Charles Paer, the famous psychiatrist from Mlan Hospital,

1:27:18

Harvard University, bore witness that this works, right? and that he's transferred his

1:27:25

patient pool over to Empower Plus and he no longer counsels them against suicide,

1:27:32

right? He's counseling them on what university courses they should take, right?

1:27:38

That's the psychiatrist. Y he was responsible for bringing a lithium to America for child practice.

1:27:45

He was the uh editor and chief of one of the the journal child adolescent

1:27:52

psychopharmarmacology psychop because he's also a psychopharmarmacologist as well. He's a worldrenowned psychiatrist and

1:27:57

psychopharmarmacologist. Yeah. And he bore witness in the trial and Dr. Bonnie J. Kaplan bore witness.

1:28:04

Now there's one particular statement he made during the trial that that stands out. He said that Empower Plus was more

1:28:11

effective than any medication or combination of medications that he's ever used before.

1:28:16

Exactly. And he performed a study that showed 19 out of 22 of his patients on the Empower

1:28:22

Plus had a significant effect from it beyond what they would normally see from

1:28:27

medications. Exactly. 19 out of 22. Right. And he was quizzed by by the lawyer Sean

1:28:32

Buckley on medication reduction. He said we don't reduce medications

1:28:39

normally. We add on. Right? If a if if it's a difficult case, we add on. But he

1:28:46

said I learn from True Hope how to adjudicate the use and titrate the

1:28:53

medications off. They are the experts. Now when I say that, I'm not boasting,

1:28:58

right? I'm saying that knowledge that we obtained was part of the gift that came

1:29:05

with this whole thing. Yeah. And it also came due to a lot of trial and error with

1:29:10

thousands and thousands of people that were willing to do anything it took to get off those medications. Exactly.

1:29:16

Um it was nothing but a blessing and and he adjudicated he indicated that

1:29:23

the product works that was established finding a fact and another finding of fact is that the true hope support

1:29:30

program is inextricably tied to the use of the product

1:29:36

and he referred to us as the experts in that field that he was being educated here. He is an educator co-authoring

1:29:42

textbooks psychiatric textbooks across the country. Yep. and he's referring to us as the

1:29:47

experts in relation to the support protocols that when he has a question, he would come to us. I I spoke with with

1:29:54

Charles Pauper many many times. What do you think about this Tony? What would you do? Yep.

1:29:59

And he became very good at it and he saved a lot of people. A lot of youth.

1:30:05

He had a lot of youth in his practice and their lives were blessed ultimately

1:30:10

because of this. No question. So those two findings of fact were critical. They were

1:30:17

and that result in the judge not only pronouncing a non not-uilty verdict but

1:30:24

also we were chasened. He said had you listened to Health Canada and followed

1:30:30

their counsel and shut this down, you could be in court today for criminal

1:30:37

negligence causing death because you already knew. You already had the

1:30:43

evidence of efficacy that this product did wondrous things. Yeah. And and criminal negligence

1:30:49

resulting in death isn't a $350 fine. No, it's not. It's an up to 25 year jail sentence in

1:30:54

Canada. That's right. So, so we were warned. Yeah. Don't follow the regulator.

1:31:00

So now we need So in essence, it was a mandate saying you have no choice but to disobey Health Canada if they try to get

1:31:06

you to shut down. Exactly. Yeah. And what a beautiful thing that is. Well, it went worldwide. I remember

1:31:12

in America it hit it hit the press down there. I remember one of the top

1:31:18

nutritional protective I should say lawyers in the

1:31:23

country who hosted an hour show every week. He hosted us on there and talked

1:31:30

about how this was an amazing thing that they could use this gift of this

1:31:37

judgment because it took place in another democratic nation and they could

1:31:42

utilize this to protect themselves against the regulators abuse down there. And and was that Jonathan Eort?

1:31:49

It was. Okay. Well-known uh advocate for freedom and and health in matters but lawyer.

1:31:54

Very well spoken. Yeah. Very well known. Okay. So, Jonathan E-mort, so we conclude the the portion

1:32:01

surrounding the court case, but the drama actually doesn't end there, does it?

1:32:06

No. This the the the story is so rich, the history of True Hope is so rich and

1:32:13

eventfilled that it could actually make for a full docu series easily. Yeah.

1:32:18

And and a docu series that would keep people glued in saying, "This possibly couldn't happen in real life. How could

1:32:25

a family go through this much over something this simple? But yet here we

1:32:31

are. Well, we've just passed the 90-minute mark of this second edition of

1:32:37

this podcast, which I thought we'd be done in one, maybe two, but we're going

1:32:43

to continue this on uh tomorrow. So, we'll probably show up in different clothes tomorrow. And um and you're as

1:32:51

an audience, you're going to hear some really exciting stuff because the battles did not end. In fact, in many

1:32:56

instances, they just got ramped up and it became uh not just about us, but about uh the freedom of Canadians as a

1:33:04

whole in various arenas. And so we'll we'll continue on the story

1:33:11

tomorrow and we'll probably be able to close it up in the uh the third episode. we we'll talk about the full 30 years of

1:33:17

of how we got to where we are today and also um where we're going to continue to go and and where our hearts are in that

1:33:24

matter as well. So, um, I encourage the audience to continue on to episode

1:33:30

three. And if you haven't yet, uh, viewed episode 1, you'll definitely want to do so as to see the the foundation,

1:33:38

uh, the answer to prayer that brought this tremendous miraculous discovery

1:33:44

about that's gone on to bless hundreds of thousands of lives. And we'll continue to hear from Anthony Stefan, my

1:33:50

father, um who has clearly proven to uh to be a tenacious man that uh when he

1:33:55

knows what's right, he takes a bold stand for it against all adversity. So, thank you, father, for um sharing all

1:34:01

this tonight. Thanks for bringing all this good information out so that the the the good people out there can have this

1:34:07

knowledge. It's truth and it establishes a validity

1:34:14

that there's a power above us and we can overcome everything in God.

1:34:21

Everything. Whether it be a bad relationship, whether it be a financial crisis in our lives, it doesn't matter.

1:34:30

Through God, we can overcome all things. Because I'm here to tell you, we were just a pair of dummies that were in the

1:34:38

the right place at the wrong time. Well, and and the evidence speaks for itself. And we take a look at all the

1:34:43

battles, as we'll continue to communicate tomorrow, there's no way that we would have been able to get through those battle battles

1:34:49

successfully. True. Had the hand of God not been with us to deliver us, to protect us, and to

1:34:55

ultimately bring about much good as a result of it. I can't change the tide, but he did.

1:35:02

Absolutely. All right. So, we'll see you in episode three.