0:00

and and I was really apprehensive. I'm starting to ask questions now.

0:06

What the heck happened? What caused this explosion in our

0:11

family? Mhm. And I'm asking her and I'm saying, you know, with all of the billions of

0:19

dollars in the pharmaceutical industry, there must be a better answer because

0:27

these medications aren't working on him or medication. In this case, it was

0:32

lithium. And my daughter Autumn, I explained, is on five medications. You've already mentioned them. held all

0:38

rivetrol epal cogentin you know um and

0:43

it's not helping and her second home is is the psychiatric ward

0:50

there must be a better answer than this and she said no

0:56

no no there isn't uh and we're going to have to increase his medications and try

1:02

different cocktails to see if we can sedate him well sedation isn't the

1:08

answer. I want him whole. And I kept on pushing that with her. And

1:15

she finally said, "Mrs. Stefan, I want you and Joseph to go out in the waiting

1:21

room and close the door, please." And when that door closed, it was like a bomb going off in my face. A shotgun.

1:28

Whatever. Mr. Stefan, you don't get it.

1:34

What you see is what you've got. And you are not going to change this paradigm.

1:39

And you better understand that. And I want you to know something clear, Mr. Stefen. You understand?

1:47

He's got a predisposition to suicide just like his mother and his

1:52

grandfather. And you need to be prepared for that. Welcome to True Hope Cast, the official podcast of True Hope Canada.

1:59

Today marks a very special moment in our history. 30 years ago, what began as a

2:05

desperate search for answers inside one family became a discovery that would go on to impact hundreds of thousands of

2:11

lives around the world. This episode is the first of a three-part anniversary series reflecting on that journey. In

2:19

this conversation, True Hope founder Anthony Stefen sits down with his son, David Stefen, vice president of True

2:24

Hope Canada, for an open and deeply personal discussion. Together, they revisit the family's early struggles

2:30

with severe mental illness, including bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, and the lifealtering realization they

2:37

encountered in the 1990s, that the brain, when deprived of essential nutrition, can suffer profoundly, and

2:44

that restoring those nutrients can change absolutely everything. This is not a polished corporate original story.

2:51

It's a raw account of trial and error, resistance, hope, setbacks, breakthroughs, and faith, and how a

2:57

nutritional discovery inside one household grew into an organization now known as True Hope, challenging

3:04

conventional thinking about mental health for three decades. In part one, we focus on the early years, the crisis

3:10

that forced difficult difficult questions, the discovery that reshaped their understanding of mental illness,

3:16

and the foundation upon which everything that followed was built. This is the story of how True Hope began, told by

3:23

the people who lived it. Welcome to the True Hope 30th anniversary special, part one. All right, it's January 2026. It's

3:31

now been 30 years since the discovery of True Hope, which has gone on to bless

3:36

hundreds of thousands of lives across the world. We're here in your beautiful

3:41

homestead um in central BC up on the side of a mountain overlooking a a beautiful lake. A very humble homestead

3:48

as well, though. uh very down to earth and it just has a a lovely feeling. I'm sure the cameras kind of pick up the

3:54

whole whole concept there, Dad. And you know, we just want to talk today about

4:00

the LA or the the previous 30 years. 30 years since a life transforming

4:06

discovery was made and there's a phenomenal story to it. A story that's become the subject of multiple

4:12

documentaries. um one particular documentary really making its way across the world which

4:17

put True Hope on the map which is a real beautiful thing for for people across the world. So, Dad,

4:23

you know, let's let's rewind a little bit here. Le let's go back maybe even

4:28

before 30 years. I was a young child. Um, I didn't know what normal was. I

4:35

didn't know what normal wasn't. All I knew was what was what I what I was born into, what I grew up with, and came to

4:41

realize later on that we were a peculiar family. Why don't you

4:47

maybe tell us a little bit about what family life looked like back in the 70s

4:52

and 80s? You know, David, I married your mom young

4:58

and it was a wonderful existence until

5:05

that great I'm going to call it negative

5:10

event occurred where she became ill with bipolar disorder. She was diagnosed with

5:17

bipolar effective disorder one with rapid cycling. Terrifying. It was terrifying for her.

5:27

It was terrifying for the whole family. And it had some really negative impacts

5:34

on each and every one of us. And it's not wasn't her fault. I've come to

5:40

understand that people that suffer with these malades do so and it's all too

5:47

common. We know that it it consumes about 20% of the population here in

5:52

North America. Mhm. We understand that we've come to understand it's not their

5:59

fault. Whatever the cause is behind it, and we have some specific thinking there, but

6:06

it's a terrible impact upon the lives of millions and millions of people

6:12

throughout the world, not just North America. Mhm. And it's had horrendous impacts upon the

6:20

family. It's very difficult. You ask the question, what was it like

6:26

uh with the family? What kind of things were we experiencing?

6:33

You can't really live and have a happy life

6:40

when someone is extremely ill with a disorder like that. Bipolar effective

6:46

disorder one with rapid cycling is huge. That's listed as an uncorrectable,

6:53

irreparable forever type of a malady, right? There's

6:58

no cure for it out there. And we were living in a terrible place. And it wasn't your mother's fault. It wasn't my

7:05

fault. It wasn't the children's fault. It's what it is.

7:10

And it was very, very, very extreme. Um, her mood would fluctuate from being

7:18

high, very high on the manic cycle and very, very, very low, very, very

7:26

depressed. And when you're living with someone like that, that's not normal.

7:34

It's it's interesting and and I'll talk about that later on as we go. When

7:40

we see the effect that this wonderful healing inspirational thing that came

7:47

upon us has in the lives of people. But what is normal?

7:54

What is normal to some people? That's an everyday experience that becomes normal.

8:02

And it wasn't until that experience ended that I saw what normality really is,

8:09

right? Proper emotional stability and control. Her father

8:17

took his life 16 years before she did and I had to assist in preparing him for

8:25

the funeral and doing all these things. I loved him. I remember we used to go ice fishing together. I love the guy. He

8:32

was an amazing man. But sadly he was out of control

8:37

and it wasn't his fault and his family was very very dysfunctional. Right. We

8:44

can see that even in second, third cousins from that side of the family that it it's very prevalent.

8:51

True. In in mom's side of the family, the mental illness and suicide wasn't out of

8:56

the out of the question. It wasn't for him. And sadly, your mom ended up in the same

9:03

state. Of course, you know that you're you've lived it. You've lived the trauma, the sorrow of seeing someone

9:10

that you're so deeply attached to and so deeply in love with and they disappear

9:15

into that dark chasm of suicide. And so yeah, it it's it's very very

9:24

abnormal and very dysfunctional. But who's the villain here? And I've

9:31

come to understand there isn't a villain. We become victims to this thing.

9:38

And uh I've watched our children, your siblings go through various

9:47

partitioning in the same thing where they've experienced u terrifying events in their life that

9:54

were caused by the same root cause. And you're talking about mental illness

9:59

and and Yeah. And so, you know, I for our audience,

10:04

how many children did you and mom have? We had um

10:10

together nine children. She came from a large family. I came from a large family. That was her dream to be able to

10:18

have a lot of children. And you guys did it. Yeah. I mean, there's no question. We adopted a young native girl.

10:25

Making for 10. Making for 10. And sadly,

10:31

not only did she suffer with the disorder, but a good percentage of the

10:37

family struggled as well with their own disorders. We say it's genetic, and

10:42

we'll talk about that in a few minutes. But there's no question it travels downhill.

10:48

There is an inheritance that comes from people. Now, there

10:54

struggle with these things. Absolutely. And we see that and they call them genetic disorders.

10:59

Well, they do. Yeah. Which often times in the medical world when you hear it's a genetic disorder,

11:04

often times the thought process is, oh, there's nothing you can do about it, but we can give you these medications for the rest of your life, but you will

11:11

always have it because it's genetic. And we've since come to learn that, and we'll get to that, I guess, a little bit

11:16

later on here, but that that's not actually the truth. That's true. What you're saying is true.

11:22

So there was something that happened that that was kind of cataclysmic, if you will, that set things in motion that

11:29

would ultimately, as traumatic as it was, would lead to significant triumph um down the road. Uh do you want to tell

11:37

us about that tragedy that that would take place? Well, on on December

11:44

30th of 1994, sadly, she she

11:50

I want to January. Oh, did I say December? You did. Yeah. Strike that out of there.

11:58

January 30th of 1994. Sadly, she ended up ending her life. She

12:04

affixiated herself. And uh it's such a sad thing. after 22

12:10

years of marriage. Yeah. 23 years of marriage. 23 years of

12:15

loving somebody and learning how to cope as best as you

12:21

could with this situation. Wasn't a lot of fun all the time. I know

12:28

what people experience. Yeah. Having been there, having been there and seen the effects and how you

12:36

feel about your own self, how you begin to question your own stability. You see,

12:42

because I hate the term mental illness. It sounds like a dungeon term.

12:48

And I've come to understand it's not a mental illness at all in the science. We're going to talk about that in a

12:55

little while because that's part of the great history of this event really.

13:00

But I've come to understand that it's not a it's not a dungeon

13:08

situation in in the sense that it doesn't have to be everlasting, right?

13:14

It doesn't have to carry on daytoday. And we're going to talk about that in a little while.

13:20

But difficult times for many, many people, many, many people who suffer.

13:27

Marriages come unglued every day. Our prisons are full of people who suffered

13:36

the same way as your mother. I remember the George Bush freedom commission that

13:42

was struck a good number of years ago where they studied the effects of mental

13:48

issues. Our prisons were over 67%

13:54

really mental asylums. Yeah. people who couldn't control, whose

14:00

chemistry was out of control, and sadly they end up in a situation where they're

14:05

in prison. Y but it's affecting every one of us. Absolutely.

14:10

And a family cannot exist in isolation from a loved one who suffers with these

14:18

issues because everybody becomes ill. Y and that's the sad story. That's why

14:24

there's so much divorce, so much family separation. In many cases, so much hate

14:30

is expressed within a family because of this uncontrollable situation,

14:36

right? And we even see today the rise of and this is a a term that many people are going to recognize today because

14:42

it's it's really become quite pervasive. But within psychiatry, we see now the

14:47

rise of the term narcissistic personality disorder, NPD. And we see the effect that that has on individuals

14:55

that individuals that are narcissists are are basically victimizing uh other people that they come in contact with,

15:01

but they themselves are the victims of this particular ailment that's plaguing

15:07

them. And what what I've personally seen in in playing around with this is that

15:12

it's fully correctable just like these other conditions are that that we've seen over the years. But I digress, you

15:19

know, just briefly there. But just to highlight, but you're okay because the listener to

15:24

this will have a full rounded understanding by the time that we finish

15:30

this wonderful discussion, this engagement that we're we're involved in right here. Yes, it

15:38

it's not an isolation. We are all affected. Churches are affected. Organizations are

15:46

affected. The very root of the family unit

15:51

is affected so negatively by these things. When your mother suicided, it

15:57

was like a neutron bomb going off in our home. It destroyed everybody. Everybody was in

16:05

a state of trauma. That's the far outreach. That's the outside edge of it

16:12

because there are many many suicides that take place in North America and

16:17

throughout the world that are the result of this situation within the one soul

16:25

that's struggling with it, right? No question. Yeah. And our family was no different than any other family.

16:33

I remember listening at night and hearing the children crying in their beds. Yeah, I remember that trauma.

16:42

I remember what it did to me. And I even questioned whether I wanted to carry on.

16:49

Mhm. Because it was so oppressive. Here I am uh a young father. Well, I guess 40 40

16:57

years old. 41 years old is still thought about as being young when most people

17:02

live, you know, into the late 70s, 80s now, half finishedish my life. But I

17:09

remember what it did to me and the loss of hope I had because I saw the same

17:17

thing occurring in some of the children that came from your mother, the offspring. Now, you

17:24

know, I guess we should probably continue on with the discovery aspect here, but you know, digress a brief

17:30

moment here to kind of paint the picture. So, at the time that mom takes her life, you're a traveling

17:36

businessman. We had just moved um about six months previous to that. Seven months previous.

17:42

That's right. And you're getting reestablished. And now you're making some serious shifts in

17:49

your life right now given the circumstances. Um I remember you know as as a young boy

17:56

now I'm I'm not quite 11 years old but I remember you completely shifting gears

18:01

and now you are taking on a really humble job. Uh you're an engineer so

18:09

you're taking care of the hospital engineer the boiler room if I remember correctly. Correct. I I was the chief engineer,

18:15

right, for that hospital. But you also took on other roles in and just so that you could be around the

18:21

family during that time. I remember. Yes. So that you like you were you were basically not not a janitor, but I

18:28

remember you handling garbages and stuff like that at the hospital as well because obviously the boiler room didn't need full-time.

18:35

Exactly. They needed my license that I had. Yeah. My engineering license. But I you know

18:42

what everything became very humble and I

18:47

was so afraid for the children and I've lost so much hope and I'm

18:54

hauling dirty diapers out of the old folks homes. That was my job. I remember it.

19:00

I'm not ashamed of doing that. Whatever we do to righteously put food

19:07

on the table to assist our children is a good cause. But boy howdy,

19:13

it lowered us. It put the boom to us. And we lived, we lived in abject

19:19

poverty, right? But it allowed you to be close to the children, close to all of us had to during that time.

19:25

I couldn't travel, right? I couldn't travel. I did a lot of business and was successful in business

19:31

before that, but that wasn't part of my life anymore because I had to remain

19:36

close to the children. And at that point in time, there's seven of us living under your roof at that time.

19:42

That's right. And now what what's it looking like within the children? Because we we

19:47

talked about previous these being hereditary or genetic conditions. So now what are you observing

19:54

um in the wake of of mom's passing? Actually, even before mom's passing, this needs to be clear because this

20:01

isn't something that's a direct result of mom's passing. Mom's passing didn't help, though. oftenimes the trauma can

20:07

even you know intensify these things right. Oh yeah but these things were already there and

20:12

medication was already um present in in at least one of my

20:19

siblings. No there was two. Okay. There was Joseph, young man, 15

20:24

years old, diagnosed bipolar effective disorder one, a replica of his mother, a

20:32

replica of his grandfather who took his life. Mhm. And there was Autumn. Autumn at that

20:40

time was a mom. She's on five different medications. What's her diagnosis?

20:46

bipolar effective disorder one with rapid cycling with schizoeffective

20:52

featuring. Oh yeah. And yes, we've talked about the

20:58

genetic thing, but there's an underlying cause for it. There's an underlying

21:04

cause for the whole thing. And we're going to get into that as we go in this this nice voice comm that we're doing

21:10

here. But yeah, scared the hay out of me. As a father, I'm looking at this.

21:18

Our son Joseph was out of control. Was it his fault? No. But he was extremely

21:26

violent. At the age of 15, he ended up with a federal weapons

21:31

charge. He took a shot at a guy, a young man, and he's stockpiling weapons at that time.

21:37

Yes. He's in persistent trouble with with at school. Sure. So, this isn't a one-off situation. This was just part for the

21:44

course for him. Well, I remember talking to the principal. We can't keep him in the school here because there's always a

21:49

fisty cuff. There's always a fight in the classroom. There's always um a major outburst

21:57

in the classroom. And Mr. Stefan, we can't keep him here if this continues.

22:02

We're trying to help your son as much as we can. He has to help himself.

22:09

But they weren't understanding what was promoting all this bad errant

22:16

behavior, you see. And so, yeah, I mean, it I saw the same

22:22

thing and I used to fear they're going the same route as their mother.

22:30

And um yeah, at some point in time there would eventually be different conversations

22:36

that would begin to emerge with that same principle. Let let's talk about what led up to all

22:42

of a sudden the gears shifting and the principle now phoning you over other

22:47

situations, but with a positive note versus a negative note. At this point in time,

22:54

we're sitting at about 1995. Let's go to early 1995.

23:00

Now, my recollection is from the history that you've portrayed to me because at this time I'm only 12 years old.

23:07

Yes. Right. So, and mental illness still isn't even really being openly discussed

23:12

in the home. Not at all. You're right. Like I wouldn't really come to even understand the term mental illness uh

23:18

from my recollection till probably 13, 14, 15 years old is when it became very

23:24

transparent in the home. Let me explain to you why. It's because I didn't understand it.

23:32

I'm an I'm a trained engineer. I I look at logistics. I look at putting together plans for

23:39

piping systems and heating systems and thermal operation, power generation.

23:46

That's my job. And so I'm a very logistic person. I can calculate and

23:52

analyze. But I did not understand what these so-called mental illnesses

23:59

are. In fact, sadly, I didn't have enough understanding for your mother

24:05

because I wasn't raised that way. I was raised in a home where if you're depressed, just get up and get going.

24:11

You see what I'm saying? That's the old European thinking that came mind over matter. Just think positive

24:18

thoughts. If you're Yeah, you're going to be okay. No, you're not. No. When your mental chemistry is out

24:24

the window, you're in trouble. Yeah. And so many people experience this thing and

24:32

their relations relationships just literally explode because we don't

24:38

comprehend what we're going through. I married uh Barbara, your stepmom.

24:46

Wonderful lady. Whoa. Let me tell you though, I married her eight months after your mom died.

24:54

Um, I believe it was a godsend. Now, now I just want to say many people

24:59

would probably say, "Wait a minute. Hold on. Hold on. That that's way too early." Like a lot of people will. So, I I want

25:04

to let's just let's just throw that out. Now, now I want to look at it from my perspective. I remember I'm now 11 years old and you announce it to me. Boom. I'm

25:12

having a blowout in the room and you're saying because she's downstairs and you're you're telling telling me that

25:18

you're going to marry Barb, right? Here's your new stepmom, David. And obviously live with it,

25:23

right? Right. In the next, you know, in the next month or whatever, you're going to marry her. And I'm looking at saying, whoa. Right

25:28

now, I look back at it from a much different perspective today. A significantly different perspective.

25:35

That first of all, understanding your needs as a father trying to hold it

25:41

together. There's seven kids in the home. There's seven kids in the home. And yes, I look at it and you know, I

25:48

had my questions especially back then like a godsend. Really? Come on, Dad. Right. But I lacked the understanding.

25:53

Obviously, I'm 11 years old. But you're a child, right? But I look at it now and I say, I think absolutely she was a godsend

26:00

because she came into a war zone and I don't know any other woman that would

26:06

have been able to stay, right? Like Barb's 100 feet away from us right now,

26:13

right? Like on the homestead here, she's still with you today. I don't know of any other woman that would have been

26:19

able to stick around for the fireworks and the unending the neverending

26:25

fireworks that were prevalent within I'm speaking metaphorically obviously but prevalent within

26:32

our home that was devastated and persistently plagued with mental

26:39

illness. Oh, you got her. But as a child, you can't see that children have limited

26:46

vision because they don't have the life's experience. I lacked a lot of the

26:52

vision at that time in my life because I didn't have life's experiences.

26:58

Mhm. And we're in school. That's what this is all about. We're learning. We're learning about relationships and how to

27:05

coexist as people in families, communities, whatever it is.

27:11

But uh yeah, I remember it was warfare. I mean, blended marriages at the very

27:17

best can be pretty bad and ours was not good. Do I blame

27:24

anybody? No. What's the causation behind that? What

27:29

what created that in the first place? Well, your mother's illness. Because all

27:36

those dominoes falling in place that have to go that way Mhm.

27:42

are caused because of the mental conditions of people. You see, I'm not

27:48

saying everybody has a mental condition. Don't take me wrong when I say this. Well, well, but there's a good percentage of our

27:55

population. Well, let's let's be let's be straight here. How many people

28:01

are fully mentally well? And are we grading it off of a curve based on societal standards? Because the fact

28:08

matter is yes. Not everybody has a diagnosible mental health condition. That's right. But I'm here to say I don't know

28:14

anybody, even with the significant discovery that was made, I don't know anybody who has a fully solid mental

28:21

constitution where they are they're untouchable. Everything is perfect. It's working exactly the way it should. No, I

28:29

don't know a single person. But I do know that through the discovery that these mental health conditions that are

28:35

diagnosible are completely eradicated when everything comes into a state of

28:41

homeostasis or balance within the body. Yes. Right. So a solution was discovered. But

28:46

let's get to that. 1995 early 1995 the home is is is a disaster. The you

28:53

know the children are we're all getting worse. I'm now going in into puberty

28:58

and I myself am now basically on the verge of a diagnosible mental health condition but nobody's looking at me

29:04

because there's Joe who's homicidal suicidal and he's making me look like an angel in comparison to him but I'm not

29:11

doing well right I remember you expressed a lot of OCD type thinking you did

29:17

yes I did and that's not a criticism no it's an observation it was an inheritance and even though

29:23

we're questioning the genetics right Now we are we started out talking that way.

29:29

It's an inheritance that comes into families. Look, it's well understood in the

29:35

science that a bipolar mom and I shouldn't give that can that

29:42

classification. We don't call a person a cancer because they have cancer. But a

29:48

mom that's expressing bipolar symptomatlogy will give birth to ADHD children. And at

29:56

puberty, those ADHD children, it's well established in science, will begin to

30:02

express bipolar symptomatology, especially if they're on medications for the ADHD. And if you have a sick father whose

30:10

chemistry is not well established, he's on the edge. Yep.

30:16

You've got double inde not double indemnity but you've got double the factoring there.

30:21

Yep. And and this is what all those children were subject to.

30:28

Yeah. There was a ver it was a it was like a buffet of mental health

30:33

conditions in our home where it didn't seem like any one of us was exactly the same. OCD. Yeah. You you you painted it

30:40

a little bit light there. You you didn't mention the rage. the the extreme rage that that qualified

30:49

me for the nickname beast, right? Well, and that's that that nickname still amongst some of of my nieces and nephews

30:55

still stands today. You're you're uncle beast, they call you.

31:01

Well, that yeah, Joel created that one. But no, there was some problems. We didn't talk about the 11year-old girl

31:09

who would si your sister. I'm not going to mention names, don't need to. who

31:14

would express schizophrenic type symptoms. She would see people who weren't there.

31:20

And major mood oscillation. Yeah. One minute laughing, the next minute

31:25

crying. Right. These are all symptoms of bad chemistry.

31:31

Right. Bad chemistry. Now, we're going to get into that in a little while

31:36

so that the viewing listening audience can understand why they're seeing this in their loved

31:43

ones that normally we write off. Mhm. Oh, we can't hang out with Aunt Phyllis

31:50

because Aunt Phyllis is a mental wreck, right? Well, what's causing Aunt

31:55

Phyllis, who when she was a little child, was a very sharing, beautiful

32:01

little girl that had great love for her family. And when she grew up, all that

32:07

changed because of chemistry. Yep. Well, I I remember when your stepmom,

32:14

Barbara, No, hold on. Hold on. Get ready to go in there. just want to

32:20

for no for the sake just just for the sake of of the the listeners when you say chemistry I want to um introduce two

32:27

words please do hormones and neurotransmitters. So when you say chemistry I want the the the

32:33

listeners to to recognize that what you're referring to is hormones and neurotransmitters. But go ahead. What

32:40

you're you about to start talking about Barb and before we get there I'm going to add something to that. We don't get to

32:48

control as a human species the level

32:54

consciously of different neuropeptides, enzyatic factoring.

32:59

You talk about neurotransmitters and hormones. Oh, she has, we hear it all

33:05

the time. Oh, she has a hormone problem. She's out of control. Did Did she

33:11

whoever that is do this to themselves? Yeah. Did Did they turn down the levels of the hormones? not conscientiously but

33:17

through the discovery it identifies that there's things that that fully put it within our control and not just based on

33:25

what we the actions that we perform because there you know to digress for a moment here laughter yoga you want to

33:32

increase the levels of serotonin there's this practice called laughter yoga that has nothing to do with yoga

33:37

but it has to do a lot with laughter yes it does and even if you don't think it's funny your body doesn't know the difference

33:42

and by you faking the laughter Eventually the laughter becomes real and

33:48

the serotonin will spike. Yes. Right. So there there's things that we can do but are we going to be engaged in

33:55

laughter yoga um because we have a serotonin deficiency because we're not creating enough serotonin which also

34:02

that's just one that's just one neurotransmitter amongst many that will help to regulate

34:08

our mood. Right? Are we going to constantly be engaging in that? We shouldn't have to. There's other factors

34:15

as well that we're going to get into and I don't want to spoil it. So, no, no, no, no. This is good because we

34:20

want the listening audience, yes, to understand, I'm going to put it this way, the true hope story, the history.

34:28

This is an incredible experience and it's an unfortunate tragedy that too many people can relate to, but it's a

34:35

triumph. It it is it's a tragedy that led to triumph that has served to be such an incredible blessing that when I

34:42

look at I say mom's death was not for nothing. And I'm and and I you know you've expressed the same sentiment but

34:48

I'm now at a place in my life that I can say the same thing. It it was sadly a blessing to all of us

34:56

and to hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people

35:01

globally. in those 104 countries where people are helping themselves

35:07

over the last 30 years. Yeah, exactly. Taking control over their mental well-being. I like the that

35:15

terminology better than the dungeon term mental illness. Right. Because this isn't just about

35:20

mental illness. Yes, mental illness is getting corrected where it's no longer a theme in people's lives. That's right. But ultimately, this is about just

35:26

empowering people to have a higher level of mental well-being. Yes. And it's applicable to everybody.

35:32

This isn't right. The discovery is phenomenal. Well, it is. It doesn't just talk about a feeling of well-being. That's good.

35:39

Sensory acuity, intelligence. There's no question. Cognition. Yeah. Exactly.

35:44

The baby the baby research that took place where they found and we haven't

35:50

even introduced yet what came out of all of this sadness and trauma. So, so why

35:56

why not before talking about how you know pregnancies and babies healthy super super babies is what the nickname

36:02

of the study was going to be and all that. Anyways, before we get into that because now now we're I think we're intriguing the audience.

36:08

But let's get back to 1995. Okay. So, we we're now a year out from mom's

36:15

taking her life. Okay. Okay. There's seven of us in the home. Actually, at this point in time, there's

36:20

six children and yourself and now Barb. Yes. Right. says now six and it's a war zone.

36:26

It's an absolute war zone. Yeah. But it's what what what I grew up in. I didn't know any different. I just thought these other families around me,

36:33

my friends homes, they're boring. They're not right. They're not they're not lighting stuff on fire like we are.

36:38

They're not at each other's throat. They're not right. Like so that that was my normal growing up

36:44

was chaos. Yes. Was a war zone. And it was all the product of mental illness.

36:49

Well, and you asked the question at the front, what what is normality? Yeah, that was our normal.

36:55

That was our normal. But it's it's it's very unhealthy. Yes. Well, I remember coming home to the

37:01

neighbor knocking on the door. I had to work. I'm trying to put bread on the table. Mr. Stefan. Yeah. I I live Oh,

37:09

yeah. I recognize you. Good to see you. Well, I'm not sure if it's good to see you. What's wrong? Well, your sons had

37:17

this huge slingshot and they would hold it out with two guys and they would fire

37:24

these rocks across the road and cave in my overhead door. Do you want to look

37:31

out over there? Do you see all those dents? They wrecked the door. But you know what, Mr. Stefen? I

37:39

understand what you're going through and your loss, and so I'm just going to walk

37:44

away. But please don't allow them to do that. They're going to start firing and catapulting stones through my windows

37:51

next. Sir, you got my my blessings. I'm sorry. I I don't expect you to pay

37:57

anything, but just keep it down, will you? Yeah. I think there was a level of compassion in the neighborhood.

38:02

There was they understood because Yeah. And we were literally I we would have been labeled as the crazy family.

38:08

It was it was, you know, with our audience, those who are watching, if they've grown up in the most dire of

38:16

circumstances in relation to mental illness, this is a story that just is par for the course for them. Like, it's

38:21

so relatable because it was about as bad as it gets. Weapons charges, stockpiling weapons, homicidal thoughts, suicidal,

38:28

like Joe was the next schoolyard shooting waiting to happen. He admits that. He says, "I was what a

38:33

schoolyard shooting was made of." And then Autumn was on on the Howell, Rivetrol, Advancent, and Respiral, and

38:39

she was in and out of the psych ward when she wasn't in the psych ward. That was your second home, right? She was on 24-hour supervision

38:46

because she was obsessing about killing James, her three-year-old son. And so, fortunately, her, you know, great

38:52

husband, faithful husband, just like you as a faithful father and a faithful husband, he's sticking around for the

38:58

ride. And it's less than desirable. and where many people would have, you know, written the divorce, it would have been

39:04

done and over with, but he is he's sticking through with with Autumn. Yeah. And they're five hours north of us. So

39:10

now this is 1995. Okay. And you've got Autumn living hours north of us in Edmonton and she's a disaster.

39:18

She's a disaster. But I'm going to preempt this a little bit if I can go back just a little earlier.

39:25

Um, Barbara when she moved in with us, she saw it because she came from a

39:33

normal home, if you want to put it like that. Whatever normality is,

39:39

but she came from a home that was fairly stable. Was it perfect? No. But it was fairly stable. And this was an instable

39:48

environment, a family environment that she moved into. And she said, "I can't

39:54

do this. We're not going to survive. Our marriage is going to come flying apart.

39:59

Can't help it, Tony. Unless we do something. We have to get some help for Joseph

40:05

because he's out of control. He's on lithium. He's on,200 milligrams of

40:10

lithium a day. That's a knock him down. A knock them down dose that would knock

40:16

down a horse." Yeah. 900 milligram is typically the the large dose. Yeah. And he's over that. and he's

40:22

absolutely out of control and he's violent and she's afraid. We used to lay

40:27

in our bed at night in the in the lower part of the house and if we heard his

40:33

bre bed springs creek, she was up like a a shot because she always had fear for

40:39

the that he was going to really injure the children or come after her. I mean,

40:45

this is the type of thing that we lived in. It's a war zone. And so she she started pushing it and

40:53

she contacted the University of Calgary. They run a psychiatric extension out of

40:59

the Foothills Hospital. Do you have a a good psychiatrist that that we could

41:05

visit with? And took about three months to get in there. And on that one day, we drove up, Joe and Barbara and I, and

41:14

three hours up. And we got in there and we're in the waiting room. And finally, come on in, Mr. Stefan. Right. I said,

41:21

yes, Mrs. Stefan. Yes. And this must be Joseph. Yes. And we got in there and and

41:27

I was really apprehensive. I'm starting to ask questions now.

41:32

What the heck happened? What caused this explosion in our

41:38

family? Mhm. And I'm asking her and I'm saying, you

41:43

know, with all of the billions of dollars in the pharmaceutical

41:49

industry, there must be a better answer because these medications aren't working on him

41:57

or medication. In this case, it was lithium. And my daughter Autumn, I

42:02

explained, is on five medications. You've already mentioned them. Held, rivetrol, epal cogentin, you know. Um,

42:10

and it's not helping. And her second home is is the psychiatric ward.

42:17

There must be a better answer than this. And she said, "No,

42:23

no, no, there isn't." Uh, and we're going to have to increase his

42:28

medications and try different cocktails to see if we can sedate him. Well,

42:33

sedation isn't the answer. I want him whole.

42:39

And I kept on pushing that with her and she finally said, "Mrs. Stefan, I want

42:46

you and Joseph to go out in the waiting room and close the door, please." And when that door closed, it was like a

42:53

bomb going off in my face, a shotgun, whatever. Mr. Stefan, you don't get it.

43:01

What you see is what you've got. And you are not going to change this paradigm.

43:06

And you better understand that. And I want you to know something clear, Mr. Stefen. You understand

43:13

he's got a predisposition to suicide just like his mother and his

43:19

grandfather. And you need to be prepared for that. And she even went to her bookshelf,

43:24

pulled pulled off at that time the DSM4 to qualify what she was saying to you. Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh she was well

43:32

equipped and she's a good soul and I wasn't angry at what she said. I couldn't deal with it. And I got up in

43:39

my numbed out, hopeless state and I said to her, "Thank you very much." And I

43:45

walked out the door and closed it and we left. That ride home three hours like

43:51

was riding into eternity because I had nothing. I was mortally drained,

43:57

spiritually drained. And that was the impetus.

44:02

That's the boot in the backside that said you're going to do something with this or you're going to suffer losses

44:10

and those children are going to suffer and they're going to suffer terrible losses cuz it's not going to stop here.

44:16

It's not going to stop at Debbie's death. It's not going to stop at the fact that her father took his life

44:24

and aunts and uncles and cousins in that family paradigm riddled with it. I had

44:32

zero hope. So by her being brutally honest with you Yes. And she was brutal

44:38

and her stating now it would prove to not exactly be the truth but within the

44:45

confines of the pharmaceutical realm it would be the truth that you're not going to change this paradigm that this is not

44:51

going to go away. Yeah. that you walked away from that completely devoid of any hope within the

44:58

pharmaceutical industry within psychiat psychiatry as a whole. Yeah. That now you were put into a position

45:05

where either you accept that fate or you begin to look elsewhere.

45:11

Well, absolutely. You come to the recognition like I came to that honest recognition

45:17

that your mother Yes. She struggled but when she got on Prozac it was like a gas

45:25

bomb. You know we didn't even talk about that. How long was she on Prozac before? Two two and a half weeks

45:31

before she took her life. Took her life. She went absolutely hysterical. She couldn't think clearly.

45:37

She was a a raging emotional mess. No criticism. Please to

45:43

the audience out there, they need to understand. We indemnify those people who have

45:49

suffered this way. It's not their fault. It's not their fault. Right? They become a product of the system. So, and and and later on down

45:56

the road, just to kind of fast forward about 10 years down the road, we'd learn some stuff about Prozac that was

46:01

withheld, the science that was withheld surrounding what the impact that it actually had in relation to suicidal

46:07

ideations. Well, when that s when that science that was withheld absolutely

46:14

came to the forefront, FDA and Health Canada were forced to put out advisories

46:21

and blackbox warnings on the SSRI,

46:27

selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. That's the class of anti-depressants.

46:32

And there's a blackbox warning talking about homicidal ideiation and suicidal

46:39

ideiation. Why are schoolyard shootings are mass drug events? And we won't get

46:46

into that right now. Right. But it's declared right on the box. Absolutely. And and we see the most

46:52

common factor in schoolyard shootings isn't necessarily the gun. It's matched by the fact that there's an SSRI

46:58

medication or an antiscychotic, some kind of psychiatric medication involved where they're either withdrawing from it

47:04

or they've recently been put on it and they go into a state of psychosis oftentimes and some of them wake up in

47:09

the psych ward or an institution not even knowing what they just did. The dream state,

47:15

right? It's real. Yeah. They go into it. Right. And so, so now we learn that SSRI as a whole across

47:22

the board, the simple statistic is that you're twice as likely to commit suicide

47:28

when taking an SSRI medication than you are by taking a sugar placebo pill.

47:33

Right. Exactly. And that that's what the research shows. And yet they they hid that. And so we would then learn and and

47:39

come to a better understanding as to what led up to mom's taking her own life. Yes. and that the Prozac was a major

47:47

factor in that because Prozac is actually the worst out of them is my understanding that in some certain uh

47:52

circumstances it's actually 8 to 12 times enhanced suicidal ideation. Absolutely.

47:59

Absolutely. These are these are truems that have been established and we didn't have that information at first and we it

48:07

wasn't even available. Right. And that's that's the the crime of the whole thing. things were hid.

48:15

Well, we went on. So, this is early 1995. You've been completely shattered of any hope that

48:20

you had of Joe getting better by taking a better medication um or a different

48:26

combination of medications, that hope has been shattered and you're now destitute.

48:32

Well, when you become destitute and your paradigm is shattered, that's what it was.

48:38

You begin to look and what's the last court of resort for

48:44

a lot of people and it was like me. You start to turn towards God and you ask

48:50

the question, "What you mean to tell me? If you're the God

48:56

of all these human beings and all this beautiful life that we see around us,

49:01

the wildlife, the forest, if you're the God of that,

49:07

did you send people here to suffer like this where they have no control?" Look,

49:14

today if you decided that you wanted to go and get a university degree in accounting or physics or whatever you

49:21

wanted to do, you have the self-will to do that. Absolutely. People with chemical conditions

49:30

don't have any control over their lives. Right. Their agency is removed because of the

49:37

chemistry. Mhm. And I began to understand and received

49:42

impressions. No, no, that's not what God did. There's an air. There's an air in our

49:50

society that's creating these things.

49:55

Absolutely. Absolutely. And going with that premise,

50:01

it set me on a path of discovery. Yeah. but a a a path of of searching and

50:09

praying and fasting and looking under every rock as it were for that answer

50:17

because the feeling I had, no, this isn't meant to be. Then there must be an

50:24

answer out there for it. And it drove me night and day and night and day.

50:29

And as a result of that, you're talking to people in the small community that we lived in. Yes. And you're hearing stories about

50:36

mental illness. Y you're not hearing a story of anybody recovering from mental illness, though. Never. There wasn't any stories of

50:42

recovery that I could come upon. And I looked at I guess if you want to say

50:47

thousands of case loads. Mhm. There wasn't any. I saw the lady that

50:54

had been in and out of the hospital since she was a teenager with no

50:59

correction. Her husband abandoned her. He couldn't live with her anymore. The children are all gone. She's alienated.

51:06

She's like an island, a lonely island. That's the sad story that I saw as I

51:13

prayed and searched and looked with wonder for an answer.

51:18

And during that time, there's certain people that are making recommendations to you that as you're talking in the

51:25

community, and you're trying different modalities for Joseph. Oh, we did everything, David. We did

51:31

magnetic therapy. We did herbal therapies. We did this. There must be an

51:37

answer there. Tahesian non juice, which when that didn't work, I was left to drink it because I heard it was good and I had a

51:42

propensity to take good stuff because I want to be super strong. Right. I'm just I'm still I'm glad you drank it all, David.

51:49

The the copious I don't know where I you know, I have the question because I mentioned this in my presentations about

51:55

the copious amounts of flax oil that found their way into our freezer. Where did you get the this copious amount?

52:02

There was bottles and bottles and bottles of this stuff as if you've been gifted it. Yeah.

52:07

Where did that come from? Do you remember? We bought them.

52:12

Okay. So, you know, there was all sorts of things that you were trying for Joe. And all of these things are recognized to be good.

52:18

Well, they are. And they're good. They're good agents. They're health agents. But did they help Joe? Was he able to

52:23

come off the lithium? No. Nothing worked. Okay. Now, this is mid1995 just for for

52:29

context here. And now you're you're now seeing something here cuz you're trying stuff and it's to no avail. Well, there

52:37

was two events, all right, that opened the door.

52:42

The first event was I listened to a tape. Uh, a good friend named Ron gave

52:48

me this tape. It was called tape set. Yeah. Dead Doctors Don't Lie. I remember

52:55

listening to them while I was on business with you and having to be subjected to listening to those and as

53:00

on the tape set in the old Cavalere and we're driving down the road and you know as a I'll be honest with you

53:07

as a 12-year-old that's not the most ideal thing to listen to. But I

53:12

I do I remember it. It had an emotional impact on me enough that I still recall that today. But yes, go ahead.

53:18

Well, that Dr. Wallick had a sense of humor and it kind of attracted me because I had lots of people try this,

53:25

do this, listen to this, here's a book, here's a manual, you see. Yeah.

53:31

And I listened to this Dead Doctors Don't Lie probably about 10 times, 15

53:36

times. I found kind of felt attracted to it. And I remember in the middle of the

53:43

night having an experience. It was a spiritual experience

53:50

and I could hear this thing playing in my mind. Maybe it was because I listened to

53:57

it 15 times and it's 3:00 in the morning and I'm sleeping, but it came to a part and there was a

54:05

statement made that absolutely blew me awake

54:11

and Barb said, "What's going on?" I said, "That's it.

54:16

That's it. The answer isn't in magnetics. The answer isn't in this or

54:23

that or 50 other modalities. The answer is found in nutrition.

54:30

And I absolutely knew it. I took a job uh and I was responsible for 26 churches

54:38

in southern Alberta and they have what they call the PFR. He's responsible in

54:44

that certain area for the buildings and he he would uh correlate with me on

54:51

painting, replacement of carpet or whatever, you know, making sure the buildings were looking. So, in essence, you're you're a property

54:58

manager overseeing these 26 buildings. Yeah. Exactly. Simply Yeah. And you're facilitating stuff, but

55:03

so you're you're correlating with a PFR. Yeah. Okay. And this guy had spent a lot of

55:09

time in the animal industry, not human, but the animal industry. And he said, "I

55:14

got to tell you about this. I remember being on a project with the Hutterites.

55:20

They're they're a large religious organization in southern Alberta and throughout Western Canada. And they they

55:26

had a lot of uh pegories, you know, the hog bars." Well, now before you got to that though, before you get into that conversation,

55:33

what led up to you having that conversation with them? Because my recollection is you're you're conducting

55:38

business as normal. You're walking down a hallway of one of these large churches. Y and you're talking about, if my

55:45

recollection is correct, replacing carpets. Yes. Exactly. So my question is, how do you even get

55:51

into this ancillary conversation that has nothing to do with business? Good point. because I had I he became a

56:00

friend and I had kind of confided in him about what Joseph was going through

56:08

and it, you know, and all the terror that we had as as a family and my second

56:14

wife and all the problems that were inherent within his um mental

56:20

aberrations that he suffered with. and he looked at me. We stopped in the hall

56:27

and he said, "You know what, Tony? I don't know a whole lot about mental illness. My family's never had one.

56:35

Don't know anything about it. But I can tell you that I used to work in the hog

56:40

barns and we used to see a thing called ear and tailbiting syndrome." And I had

56:47

told him about how Joe would go into these terrible, raging, explosive

56:54

behavioral issues, you know, hyperable raging violence. And he said, "I saw that in the hog

57:00

barns." I said, "You did?" Yeah. He said they would, that's why it's called ear

57:06

and tailbiting syndrome because they would gore each other. They would actually you had to separate them

57:11

because they would actually kill one another, rip off an ear, tear off a

57:17

tail, tear out the flank. Yep. And he said, "But we resolved it. We put

57:23

extra calcium and magnesium and phosphorus into their feed and they

57:29

became nice hogs. They settled down." When he told me that, it was, you know,

57:36

it was an illumination, an epiphany. What? I felt it. I felt it. I absolutely

57:43

knew that we were on to this thing. And he eventually partnered up with me and

57:49

we carried on and and uh in due course came an association of products.

57:58

Well, well, let's not get there yet. Okay, we won't go there. you you mentioned a well we will go there let let's go there but let's just there so

58:06

he tells you this information now I think it's important for the audience to to know that in the months preceding

58:13

this you've already tried magnetic therapy you've tried Tahesian juice you've tried copious amounts of flax oil

58:20

which is great right omega-3 fatty acids are well known for mental health I tried vitamins and minerals too

58:27

well yeah and and and you tried what Joe calls rust water. Yes. Any clarification on what that was?

58:33

It was It was a mineral water. Okay. So, this is 30 years ago. So, okay. Some kind of mineral water. So, you've already tried these things and it

58:40

hasn't created the effect that you're looking for. It hasn't created even a notable effect that would allow for you

58:45

to reduce his medications. Now you you mentioned a word there that when

58:50

David Hardy had mentioned um I'm not sure if we mentioned his name

58:55

yet but the PF when he had mentioned about his experience in the animal feed

59:02

industry and formulating feed for hogs across western Canada western United States and all that and the tailbing

59:08

syndrome that you had you mentioned the word epiphany which by the way is the name of

59:14

a film that just was released this past year on the true hope story. It's actually

59:21

the true hope battle epiphany the true hope battle because within that within your interviews from two different times

59:28

going back to 2010 and then even your most recent interview for that film as well that both those sets of interviews

59:34

were drawn from in that film you had mentioned in both of those that you had had an epiphany that there was this

59:40

opening experience. How important was it that you had that confirmative or confirmation experience

59:49

surrounding what David Hardy had just mentioned to you? The story was I'll say vital because it

59:57

triggered the epiphany. I had been on my

1:00:02

face pleading with God for help. You got to help my children, Lord. you have to

1:00:09

help me because they're going to disappear just like their mom did, just like their grandpa did if you don't come

1:00:16

if you don't help me. And that was my prayer for months and months and months.

1:00:23

And that was accompanied by fasting, pondering it. Sure. I I my recollection is that you even

1:00:29

lost notable weight during that particular time because of the amount of fasting that you were involved in.

1:00:34

Big time weight. you you were you were willing to do what it took that if there was an answer that you're willing to do

1:00:41

whatever it took to discover that answer is my recollection of that yes based on the fact that you were involved

1:00:48

in that type of fasting to the point that it was basically a weight loss program now as you were starving yourself to that to that degree in a

1:00:54

sense seeking and petitioning you know for an answer from God to find that answer and it was like a

1:01:01

light switch turned on it it was earmarked. It was boom, it's there.

1:01:09

You've got your answer. You got your your answer. The answer wasn't calcium,

1:01:14

magnesium, and phosphorus. The answer was that you could make an

1:01:20

application together, a component, number of components

1:01:26

together that would bring that calm of vitamins and minerals.

1:01:32

Yes. Exactly. Okay. So, how important was that you Okay. Well, actually, before we get into that, you acted on that pretty

1:01:40

immediately, didn't you? That confirmation that you received? Totally. Like the next day, did it work? Yeah.

1:01:46

Well, so this November of 1995, I'll say it was a little coarse, a little rough,

1:01:52

but you know, there was I'm going to say this, and some people may be offended by this. I'm sorry for if you're offended

1:01:59

by this, but I want you to know that your greatest

1:02:05

friend is your God that created you. And there's no question we were inspired

1:02:13

to put into a formula the things that are still in that formula 30 years

1:02:22

later. It was a work of inspiration. My friend David

1:02:28

David didn't have experience in human nutrition at all. I was an engineer.

1:02:34

Mhm. And when you look at it, when you look at what happened because over a period

1:02:41

of months, we put this thing together. We had to find sources. We did a lot of

1:02:47

reading. We had feelings. Put this in. No, don't do that. Don't do that.

1:02:54

And that combination came together. Now, it's about 1998, right? Yes.

1:02:59

Let's go back to 1995. November 1995. You go down to a health food store with

1:03:04

David Hardy and you guys pick out a bunch of different products. Yes. Did it work for Joe? Did he come off his

1:03:10

medications in November of 1995? Yes, he did. In November of 1995?

1:03:15

No, he didn't. It was two It was two years. It was 1996. It was about two years, my recollection,

1:03:24

that it took to finally put a protocol together.

1:03:29

Right. Now, in November 19, it used to be called the uh quad quad synergy quad program.

1:03:36

Yeah. And quad signifying four because there was four distinct products that you would eventually come across.

1:03:42

And it worked. It It was a It was very effective. So now we have a gap here though. Yes,

1:03:47

we do because January 18th of 1996 is when you discovered the quad program four

1:03:53

products. So now we have a void here of November to I'm glad that you you keep the history

1:03:58

and date and time. I'm getting older. So, so what I'm what I'm trying to get

1:04:04

at here is there's a void of two full months where before Joe is even able to

1:04:11

come off his medications, before the quad program is in place

1:04:17

that you're trying different vitamins and minerals. Yes. Right. So, how important was it that you

1:04:23

received that spiritual confirmation that that nutrition was the answer, especially during the two months time

1:04:30

where you're trying different vitamin mineral products and they're not working. It was critical because you

1:04:36

could look back at that and I always say connect the dots. If you have a

1:04:41

spiritual experience in your life, it isn't just a separate entity, a

1:04:48

little localized thing. You can connect the dots, right? Well, if A

1:04:55

plus B equals C, what can you do? Where can you go with

1:05:00

it? There's a connecting. And it drove me because I knew that I had received a

1:05:06

spiritual answer. And I'm nothing. I don't claim to be a

1:05:11

prophet or anything like that. I'm just saying as a a a guy that was suffering

1:05:16

with a broken heart and a broken life and a broken family that the tender

1:05:23

mercy of God led me to know that that

1:05:28

was the absolute answer. It didn't come with a long list, right? you know fulvic

1:05:34

acid folic acid vitamin C and B1 and six it didn't come like that

1:05:40

right it was a feeling an absolute feeling where truth was revealed this is

1:05:47

a catalyst that will now go and do it right now go and do it so now now you're trying to figure this out so if you hadn't received that

1:05:54

spiritual confirmation do you think that during the latter part of November and into December of of 1995 that maybe you

1:06:02

would have thrown in a towel and said, "Well, we tried the vitamins and minerals and they didn't work." Yep, you're right.

1:06:07

Do do you think that would have been the case? There wouldn't have been anything that would have carried me through. So, you persisted

1:06:13

and January and I get this from you, January 18th, 1996. You have a very

1:06:19

specific date on that because it also correlates with a particular prescription that Joe was on at that

1:06:26

time. And there's that whole part of the story. So what happens in January when

1:06:31

the quad program comes into play and we also have corresponding with that his

1:06:37

prescription for lithium. What happens during that particular time? Well, we carried on with the quad

1:06:44

program for quite a while. But okay, let's talk about Joe. Okay. Specifically, what happens in January

1:06:50

and and what does it have to do with his lithium? Go ahead. Well, okay. So

1:06:57

at what point in time so okay January 18th of 1996 okay so two months later

1:07:03

you finally come across these four products that were coming out of the states right yes they were what happened how how did that look

1:07:10

initially what you tried them out what happened well they worked and how how fast what what did that look

1:07:16

like well I remember putting Joe on and in a

1:07:21

matter of now I get where you're you're going thank you for reminding me of this. But

1:07:28

we put him on that program and within 14 days we saw an absolute

1:07:34

miracle. In fact, his principal phoned me and said, "What are you doing?

1:07:40

He's not yelling at the teachers. He's not having a fisty cuff in the back of the room. He's actually doing his

1:07:47

homework. What happened?" Right? So, there's a complete changeover that begins happening rapidly. Right.

1:07:52

Very rapidly. Okay. And I guess for the audience here, so when I'm drawing this out of you, Yeah. that's

1:07:58

it's necessary for the audience to know that this is a completely organic conversation. We have not rehearsed anything. We have

1:08:03

not even discussed what we're going to be discussing tonight. That's right. We're sitting down and this is off the

1:08:09

cuff. I hate doing anything off script. And you you mentioned something earlier

1:08:14

about script sucks or something like that. Well, it does because it's not you. And and this is very organic and it flows

1:08:22

because we're we're talking about a 30y year history period. That's a long time

1:08:27

and there's significant details here. So so you don't know necessarily where I'm going. So it's important for the audience to know that

1:08:33

when when when I'm trying to draw it out of you, you may not know where I'm going. That's right. This is perfect.

1:08:38

So okay, there's a rapid transformation that begins to happen in Joe because he gets on these four different products.

1:08:44

Now, according to and we should probably mention this, there's a Discovery Health documentary, Discovery Health Channel

1:08:50

does a documentary in September 2002. Okay? Right. So, now we're kind of fast forwarding, but during that documentary,

1:08:57

Joe makes mention that in 5 days there's like a fog lifted and I could now see

1:09:02

what was right and wrong. So, this is January 18th. So, now by the time that we're into January 20s, right, y

1:09:09

of 1996, right? Maybe it's the 23rd, 24th, 25th. Joe saying a fog lifted and

1:09:15

he can now see what was right and wrong. So here he's blinded to the effects that his behavior has been having on on those

1:09:20

around him. Yes. Exactly. Which now when we become self-aware, our behavior also changes to align with our

1:09:28

values right at that point in time. So now there's a shift already in his behavior. So

1:09:34

now with the lithium, there's a bit of a story surrounding the lithium, and I don't know how how deep you want to go

1:09:39

into that, but you still have a bottle of lithium. Still have it today. A full bottle of lithium to this

1:09:46

day. What happened there? He didn't need it anymore. So he walked away from it. I didn't have

1:09:52

to administer the the lithium to him anymore. He didn't need any sedation therapy whatsoever. Now, my recollection

1:10:00

is there's a story between you and Barb that you guys were having some heated

1:10:05

conversations surrounding whether or not to fill the prescription again because

1:10:10

he had just run out as you ended up with these four different products.

1:10:16

Exactly. And I said to her, she said, "I have to go down to the pharmacy and get the

1:10:23

lithium prescription refilled." And I said, "Don't do it. Don't do it because we want to know if

1:10:32

this is working or not. You can't put two um points into a study

1:10:41

and this wasn't a study by any stretch. It was an experiment and know what has

1:10:46

had the effect. You have to keep it to one. and the and and the one that I

1:10:52

wanted to deal with does this it wasn't called that then but it became known as

1:10:57

the synergy quad program does it have an effect because I think we were led to

1:11:04

get these four components in there right and I won't tell you that we had a fight

1:11:12

over it but you know more politically correct we had a family discussion and

1:11:18

she on and she went down to the drugstore and she refilled it.

1:11:24

But on the way home, she had some thinking that came upon her and she brought it to me and she said, "Tony,

1:11:31

I'm sorry. I don't want to force anything here. If you want to try this, you try it. But

1:11:38

you know what he's like when he's not on his lithium. It's not pretty." And and that needs the audience needs to

1:11:43

understand that that without the lithium, it was a complete disaster. Oh, with the lithium, it was still a

1:11:50

disaster, but just less of a disaster. It was a minimal, not minimal, but minimized

1:11:55

uh destructive force. That's what it was. But there but Joe didn't like the way

1:12:01

the lithium made him feel. So, he would avoid taking it. So, there was compliance issues and there was a battle to ensure that he got the lithium

1:12:07

because we all saw the impact that it had on him. Absolutely. So either way, so ju just so

1:12:13

the audience knows that the removal of the lithium, we would anticipate that things would get even worse.

1:12:18

Yeah. And the the lithium was removed. No longer did he take it. You still have to this day

1:12:24

that bottle 30 years later now it's this month. 30 years later this month,

1:12:30

you have a full bottle of lithium that Joe was supposed to take and never did

1:12:36

take. Exactly. What happened? It worked. He plained right out. He

1:12:42

wasn't sedated. It wasn't like administering a drug to get you to slow

1:12:47

down at all. He, in fact, he became more intense, but in a proper way. He had an

1:12:54

excitement, a vigor for life all of a sudden. I want to do this. I It's like he missed part of his life and it came

1:13:01

back to him. I want to do this, Dad. I want to go here. I want to learn about this. You see,

1:13:08

and there wasn't the violence and the explosions. He became the young boy that I remember

1:13:16

when he was very small and he was a very caring and sharing individual. He was

1:13:23

like a gentle bear. He was always a big guy. He was like a gentle bear and he

1:13:28

became that way again. You see, and then you started getting phone calls

1:13:34

from the principal. Yeah. Absolutely shock. What happened? What are you doing? And then pretty soon

1:13:42

the principal's out in the community talking and then the phone began to ring. Mr. Stefen,

1:13:50

this Bob Wilson, I'll just use that name. There might be a Bob Wilson out there. It's not I'm not talking about

1:13:55

you. This Bob Wilson calling. My wife has been depressed for 20 years. She's

1:14:01

in bed every day. It's just been terrible. I have to look after it. BL,

1:14:07

you know, this the usual story. It's a dysfunctional family. I heard from the

1:14:14

principal at the high school um about what you're doing, what you did

1:14:20

with your son. Do you think this would work for my wife? I'm not sure, Bob. I'm not sure,

1:14:29

but let's give it a try. And it worked. And there was phone calls. My wife has

1:14:37

extreme anxiety. Do you think it'll work for her? I'm not sure

1:14:42

it worked. And then came the incredible one. Hi, this is John.

1:14:50

My wife has been with schizophrenia for 18 years. She's been in bed. I have to

1:14:57

feed her. I have to dye her, tidy her. She sees bugs crawling on her all the

1:15:02

time. There's snakes in the room. Uh I heard down at the handicap society

1:15:09

because I take her down there about once a month just to get a little company.

1:15:15

But I heard from the handicap society down there the other side of town that

1:15:22

you did something to your son. I want you to come over to my house and fix my

1:15:27

wife. Really? Okay. I went over there. I said, "John, you're a faithful old man

1:15:35

and you've got a wonderful wife here and uh you're looking after her

1:15:42

and uh you're doing some great work." I don't know. That is a terrible disorder

1:15:49

that's at the top of the block. Now, this is schizophrenia with agorophobia. She's not leaving the house. Now, remember, cuz this is just a

1:15:57

block down from us. Yeah. I never knew him. I never ever saw him in my life. And he was a block over

1:16:02

with his wife, Gloria. Now, I now I I recall him because I I would see him at church, but I didn't

1:16:08

know that he even had a wife. And I I don't think that his neighbors knew that he had a wife. Yeah.

1:16:14

Right. Like, and this is one block over. And so, she's not leaving the house

1:16:20

accepting for, you know, probably doctor's appointments or something of necessity. Exactly.

1:16:25

Because of the agorophobia. Yeah. And she and she's I'm sorry she's freaking out every day cuz she's

1:16:32

hallucinating and hearing voices constantly. Well, it was interesting.

1:16:39

We had got connected with the University of Calgary, a Dr. Bonnie J. Kaplan,

1:16:47

psychologist, extremely wellstudied and published. And I was talking to her

1:16:52

about this and she said, "Why don't we get a baseline?

1:16:58

I mean, I'm missing part of the story. You're going to bring that forward. Why don't we get a baseline?" And what do

1:17:03

you call her? Her name's Gloria. Okay. And I'll get a psychiatrist that will

1:17:09

review her files. We'll get permission from him to get the medical records. And

1:17:16

we'll get the medical records up here so the psychiatrist can review them. and you go ahead and try your thing

1:17:23

because I'd had many discussions with Dr. Kaplan about this, but that's another part of the story that doesn't,

1:17:30

you know, we'll bring that in. She was skeptical and said that she had dealt with all the flakes in the 80s regarding nutrition and refused to meet

1:17:35

with you initially. There's a whole other cool story to that. Yeah, you're a snake oil salesman. Well, I'm not selling anything. We're just

1:17:42

trying to help people with these conditions, Dr. Kaplan. any anyhow. And

1:17:48

so she did that and and we we put her on a good dose of of the products, the

1:17:54

synergy quad program, those four components, four different products that are not your products, by the way. They're not

1:18:00

True Hope products. They were not True Hope products. We just had a feeling that these would work

1:18:07

because of the prayer that was taking place. Yeah. God will inspire all of us. He'll lead us if we let him.

1:18:13

Yep. he can make our lives better. That's the moral of that story. But what

1:18:19

was really interesting is that uh within about 14 days we saw a different person.

1:18:27

And pretty soon the fight started in their home. Yes. And he phoned me and complained

1:18:33

about it. She wants the remote control for the television now. I don't get to

1:18:40

watch all the games. She's picking out the movies that she wants to watch.

1:18:46

Dynamics in the relationship are shifting as one isn't a care patient anymore. Well, John, you're blessed, buddy.

1:18:51

Extremely. You've been blessed because you're getting your wife back. We took her up to the University of Calgary and

1:18:58

she ran a baseline based on um the medical records, 18 years of

1:19:04

wretchedness, and now two weeks. and she assessed her and she said, "Well, this

1:19:11

is awful early. You bring her back in another two weeks." So, we would drive her up to the University of Calgary to meet with this well-renowned

1:19:18

psychiatrist. She was very well accredited. And her final output was, I can't

1:19:24

explain why she would go into remission after 18 years.

1:19:30

Now, this is in the early days before the studies are actually taking place. The first study wouldn't wouldn't even

1:19:36

be the preliminary results of it wouldn't be published until October of 2000. Exactly.

1:19:41

So, and so this is this is years preceding that. This has got to be what

1:19:46

if she's using the quad program, the latest it could have been was probably late 97, early 98 because

1:19:53

I I would say you're about right there. Yeah. So, so and now now people know that she

1:19:58

exists cuz she's also leaving the home. She's going to church. She's in the neighborhood. She's volunteering at the hospital

1:20:06

cafeteria. Yeah. And she's wonderful to be with. And I never knew that you lived in this town.

1:20:12

I never saw you before were the comments. And she was performing extremely well. They She was a very

1:20:19

valid valuable volunteer resource for that cafeteria. Yeah. She got her life back. She did

1:20:27

from the throws of the most significant mental health conditions where she's literally living in a different realm.

1:20:33

Yes. Exactly. And has no existence. Yeah. She's not even leaving the home. Now

1:20:40

she's doing what she wants to do. Exactly. What a beautiful thing. Well, it was it was glorious. Her name

1:20:46

was Gloria. But the story is glorious because we saw what this thing could

1:20:52

counter and we were told though these are incurable disorders. You're never

1:20:57

going to fix this. What you see is what you've got. Whizzywig, right? That's what she told me. Prepare for

1:21:04

another suicide, Mr. Stephan. Didn't happen. No, it didn't happen. So now, okay, so we we

1:21:12

we've we've kind of fast forwarded here and the audience is probably left with

1:21:17

the idea of, well, what happened to Autumn, right? What happened to, you know, your second oldest daughter who's

1:21:23

on a cocktail of five medications in and out of the psych wards on 24-hour supervision when she's in isn't in the

1:21:29

psych ws because she's obsessing about killing her three-year-old son and herself. What happens with her? Because

1:21:35

Joe gets better in January of 20, not 20, of 1996.

1:21:40

Exactly. Now, what happens with Autumn? Well, in February, her husband looked after her 24/7

1:21:47

and he had to go back on midnight shift. He was working a paper cardboard cutting

1:21:54

plant, right, and uh operating there. And he said, "Uh, I have to go back. Can

1:22:01

I bring Autumn down to your house?" said, "I'm sorry, Dad. She's really disabled, but I I need to drop her off

1:22:08

at your place for 7 days and we'll reconnect." I said, "You know what I'll do? I'll bring her up in seven days to

1:22:14

Red Dear and we'll because they were in Edmonton. We're down in southern Alberta. Then we can connect." Okay.

1:22:20

Love you, Dad. Thank you for looking after her. My parents can't look after her. They're gone because her his

1:22:27

parents were doing all the the secondary help there. Right. Right. Well, she came down on a Saturday. He

1:22:35

dropped her off at the house. Sunday morning, we went to church. We're all sitting in the long pew and all of a

1:22:42

sudden Autumn has an anxiety attack and she's becoming psychotic and she's

1:22:47

flapping, which is one of the symptoms. And she's in a major state of anxiety,

1:22:54

which is interesting. I mean, really, one of the calm hymns would have set her off. Like there there's no explanation

1:23:00

as to why she'd go into an anxiety attack during church. Chemistry.

1:23:05

Exactly. Like so it's not even like she was set off by the environment. Yeah. It wasn't the environment. It was

1:23:11

a gentle environment. Prayer and singing and Yeah. And high. And these are and these are traditional hymns. It's not even like

1:23:18

guitar or anything coming out. It's not the rock band on the stage. That's okay. That sounds pretty good,

1:23:23

too. But you know, and so she she really lost it. And I said, "Come with me." And I took

1:23:29

her out the back door of the church and we start to walk home. And she just absolutely lost it. And I I said, "Go

1:23:38

lay down your in the bedroom there. Just lay down." And you know, it was like something hit me with a sledgehammer.

1:23:44

You're not doing this. You're not doing this anymore. Because I had approached her and Dana as as um your brother

1:23:54

Joseph was getting better. Wow. He's doing great. He's off of his lithium. What? You took him off his lithium? My

1:24:02

doctor says if I get off my five medications, I'm going to die. Well,

1:24:08

okay. Well, she really lost it. And I

1:24:13

thought, "Nope." And I won't say um that I forced her to do it because

1:24:20

that's not politically correct in this world today. You don't force anybody to do anything. But I constrained her to do

1:24:26

it. That sounds a little better. And so I did. And here you're gonna take this. You're I don't want that. You're gonna

1:24:32

take this. You're gonna take this. You're gonna take this. And I started giving her the synergy quad program. And

1:24:39

here we go. And she woke up two days later.

1:24:44

And I heard this voice, "Dad, Dad." And I yelled down from the

1:24:50

upstairs down to that bedroom down there. What? Autumn, you okay? No, no,

1:24:56

I'm not okay. Come and see me. So, I went in the bedroom and uh she she can't

1:25:01

hardly keep her eyes open. They're all sagging and she's talking and drooling

1:25:07

seriously. And I said, "What the heck? What's going on?" "Well, I'm taking my medications."

1:25:14

I said, "Are you really loading up heavy duty?" "No, I'm I'm taking exactly what

1:25:19

I'm supposed to take." And she was like overmedicated.

1:25:24

But you didn't increase your meds. No, I didn't increase my meds. I'm just I feel drugged out. So

1:25:33

I took her off of four of the five medications that she was on. Oh, that's

1:25:38

so irresponsible, Mr. Stefen. How could you do that? Well, we had

1:25:44

I don't know. It just kind of fell in place. I didn't know anything about meds. David Hardy didn't know anything

1:25:51

about meds. We didn't know anything. But I took her off of four of the five and I

1:25:57

left one on. It's a good thing I left that other one on.

1:26:03

Yeah. The Rivetrol. Why? Because it's extremely addictive.

1:26:09

But I didn't know that. If I had pulled her off of that, she would have gone into withdrawal because it took her

1:26:15

another 60 days to slowly wind down. But on day four, she woke up and she went

1:26:20

and had a shower. Well, that might sound like, uh, what are you talking about, Mr. Stefan? That's no big deal. Yes, it

1:26:26

is for her because her husband had to force her into the shower and clean her

1:26:32

because she had no consciousness of of her state of being, if you know what I

1:26:37

mean. No criticism. She was so ill. Her chemistry was so out the window. And on

1:26:44

day five, I had a conversation with her for about an hour and a half, and it made total sense. I didn't take her back

1:26:51

on day seven. I took her back on day six. I said, "You're on midnight shift." Yeah. Meet me in Red Dear at Gasoline

1:26:58

Alley. I'm bringing her home. Okay. And I told him what I did and he got really

1:27:04

mad. That doctor said if she ends up back in the psych court, he's going to

1:27:09

institutionalize her. you're putting at her her terrible risk at I said just be patient just meet me meet me at Gasoline

1:27:18

Ellie. So I pulled up and he got out and he was just storming. He was upset. I

1:27:23

said, "Dana," I opened the door. I said, "Autumn, come and sit in the car with Dana." He gets

1:27:29

out 45 minutes later and he said, "I haven't talked to her like that in a

1:27:35

couple of years. We we haven't had a conversation and she looks really pretty. Her hair is done. She got some

1:27:42

makeup on and she's acting normal. Whatever normal is. You brought that up.

1:27:49

What's normal? And you know what? She never looked back. She got off she got

1:27:54

off of the rivetrol. You know, same as clinazop which is very addictive. It's a

1:28:01

benzoazipene type medication and never looked back. She got well.

1:28:08

That's the true hope story. Joe, your brother, calls himself patient zero. He

1:28:13

says that with a laugh. He was patient zero. The very first one. It was nothing

1:28:22

but a God said. This was an answer to prayer. Now I understand how Noah built

1:28:28

an ark on dry land. He didn't know what he was doing. He was inspired. There have been men and women inspired

1:28:35

throughout the centuries that sought answers from God and they found them.

1:28:41

The wonderful advent of penicellin. Check into the person behind it. See

1:28:46

what his thinking was. It was given to him. This was given to

1:28:52

us. So I can't take credit. I'm an engineer and my partner at that time, bless him. He's long since left this

1:28:59

earth life. Bless that guy. But you know what? He didn't have it either. It was

1:29:05

inspired. Should we add this, Father? Is this okay? And feelings would come. Put

1:29:13

this in. Don't put this in. It was designed. And I'm saying that some people think I'm a religious cook. No,

1:29:19

I'm not. I was a desperate father that was clamoring, leaving a claw mark on

1:29:25

the wall looking for answers. And I found it. And it saved my family. And I

1:29:31

say to people all the time that come to us, "Wow, this has helped me so much. I

1:29:36

can't believe it." I say, "You got the same blessing that my family did. Nothing more and nothing less."

1:29:43

Hallelujah. Well, you're so wonderful. No, I'm not. I just happened to be in the wrong place

1:29:49

at the right time. That's what it equates to. Yep. And here we are today with hundreds of

1:29:57

thousands of people. the massive cohort study that was held between

1:30:04

New York State University and the University of Calgary where they asked

1:30:09

us permission to look at our database and they came back and what did they say? They had to sign NDAs because

1:30:15

there's some pretty powerful people in that database and all those names had to be removed. you can't identify them. And

1:30:22

they signed off as the University of uh New York State University and the University of Calgary that they would

1:30:29

not divulge anything. And what did they find? Number one, that

1:30:35

True Hope has the largest neurossychiatric database in the world.

1:30:41

Number two, it's a very strange database of neurossychiatrics because people come in acutely ill and they leave 60 days

1:30:49

later and they're looking wonderful. Yeah. Because they look at all of the forms,

1:30:54

all of the progression, the data charting that we do with people. So let

1:31:00

let's fast track to get to that point because I'm sure the audience is saying what database what what does this have

1:31:06

to do with a database? So go ahead. Now we're working with the synergy quad program. There's four different products. A colloidal mineral

1:31:12

supplement, a calcium magnesium phosphorus supplement, a multivitamin, and grape seed extract. Now, the

1:31:17

multivitamin and the uh calcium magnesium phosphorus is

1:31:23

chelated, which allows them to work better. The colloidal minerals, well, obviously that speaks for itself. It's

1:31:28

more bioavailable than than just rock form minerals. Absolutely. it was organic and so that's why it's able to even work

1:31:35

compared to the previous products that you're using from November to earlier January of you know 1995 1996.

1:31:43

Now you were talking about you know formulating and what to put in and whatnot.

1:31:48

That comes on the heels uh at around 1997 1998 when there was a flawed study

1:31:54

that occurred where they were using the quad program and found that people

1:31:59

reverted and they did an analysis the four different products and found that the colloidal mineral supplement varied

1:32:05

in its levels of minerals depending on one batch to the next to the next. Yeah, there was actually a chemistry analysis,

1:32:11

a chemical analysis made of the liquid mineral, earth minerals, and they found that they were

1:32:19

severely watered down. They didn't have the same potency, and so their data went backwards. People

1:32:26

were doing good, good, good, good, good, climbing on the charts, and they crashed. Yep. So now we go to a place where

1:32:34

you're looking for a replacement and the study shut down because you can't study a variable. That's right.

1:32:40

Study was shut down. This was the first study that was occurring and the first study I'm aware of. Although there was

1:32:45

one on fibromyalgia if I remember correctly as well. Yeah. There was a little study. Yeah. Because it was also showing

1:32:51

promise for that. But that study was a little bit flawed. University of Calgary. Yeah. Yeah. So it was too short, but those

1:32:57

that continued on with it afterwards continued to to show improvement in their fibromyalgia symptoms.

1:33:02

They did. Now let me come into this just for a second. It failed. And at that time that was a

1:33:09

major thing to us and the University of Calgary. I look back now was meant to be

1:33:16

because it set the stage for us having a constant

1:33:22

protocol that we could control to ensure

1:33:27

that label claim was made when you looked at the label and it said 300 mg

1:33:33

of calcium in a chilated form that it had 300 and ultimately that a product was going

1:33:39

to be produced that created the results that so many had already come to rely on. Exactly. It was essential that we went

1:33:46

through that because we were dependent upon others and they didn't have the same thinking

1:33:52

that we did. They didn't have the same mission. We were doing this for the purpose of the mission. We weren't even at that

1:33:58

time in the money making process. We do need money because we have to produce

1:34:04

product, buy raw, package, label, send them out, do all this work. But at that

1:34:10

time when we started out, it wasn't about setting up a business. We didn't even want to have a business. We wanted

1:34:17

to see if we could affect in a godly way because it was given to

1:34:23

us people's lives. That's what the mission was about. What would it do for Gloria with her

1:34:31

schizophrenia? Well, that sweet lady got her life back. and thousands and

1:34:36

thousands of people got their lives back in the beginning. So we now see the emergence

1:34:44

of the mission and vision that still carries strong today within True Hope. Yes. We we see the beginnings of that where

1:34:52

this isn't about business. This is about sharing the blessing that we ourselves

1:34:57

within our family are the benefactors of. and we see the beginning of a creation of a product because prior to

1:35:03

that there was no business element to it. But now through necessity

1:35:09

you're having to look at this. You and David Hardy are now going to university libraries and studying stuff out. You're

1:35:15

praying. You're seeking for divine guidance on producing a product that's going to generate the results that

1:35:21

you're looking for. Exactly. You got it. This would ultimately

1:35:26

lead to significant research, significant opposition, major battles.

1:35:33

The topic, the topics of documentaries really, it lays the groundwork for why

1:35:39

this story would become so intriguing as to why there's a handful of documentaries now today on the true hope

1:35:46

battle, true hope discovery. And the story is so incredibly rich from from

1:35:52

now we're in the late 90s and I know that we've spent uh just over 90 minutes here on on examining the story. So the

1:36:00

story gets even more exciting and there's more twists and turns. It's more of a roller coaster ride as time goes

1:36:05

on. So, now that we're 90 minutes into this, or just over 90 minutes,

1:36:12

we're going to stop here and we're going to invite our listeners to come back to

1:36:17

part two where they see what happens when a profound discovery is made that

1:36:24

is scientifically validated, showing exactly what the or qualifying that yes,

1:36:30

there are at this point in time tens of thousands of people who have got their lives back and how it became a major

1:36:38

battle just to stay in existence. So we invite the listeners to join us for part

1:36:45

number two as we come to a close of part number one here. Thank you.

1:36:51

Thanks for listening and part participating. Thank you Dad for for going through some of this exhaustively. And by the way,

1:36:58

there was elements to this that I wasn't even aware of. So I I appreciate this. This is a rich history that you're

1:37:04

sharing. You're good at drawing it out because you lose not that you lose the memory,

1:37:10

but it it's in a box there and you have to open that box again. No, this has been really good. This is

1:37:16

very refreshing. It's exciting. Awesome. So, we'll see you for part number two.