0:00

hello everybody and welcome to True Hope cast the official podcast of true hope Canada where we take a deep dive into

0:05

mental Health's many physiological and psychological aspects this is the show for you if you're looking for motivation

0:11

inspiration knowledge and solutions and that's what we are all about here at true hope Canada and true hope Canada is

0:17

a mind and body based supplement company dedicated first and foremost to promoting brain and body Health through

0:22

non-invasive nutritional means for more information about us you can visit trueu hopec canada.com today I've got the

0:28

absolute pleasure of welcoming Dr Dylan petus to the podcast now Dr Dylan is a physician researcher and health

0:34

optimization expert who takes an integrated approach towards sleep annea

0:39

he is a peer-review published author and award-winning researcher with a medical degree a master's degree in

0:45

endocrinology and a master's degree in public health Dr Dylan focuses on how

0:50

oxygen metabolism is at the core of sleep apnea for over a decade Dr pekus

0:55

has coached and educated others on lifestyle changes and natural therap is to optimize Health his goal is to share

1:03

practical advice for improving sleep energy levels and mental Clarity today's

1:08

question that Dr Dylan is going to answer at the end of the show is what is one thing people can do tonight to

1:13

improve their Sleep Quality and today we're going to be talking about sleep annea and mental health enjoy the

1:19

show Welcome Dr Dylan to True Hope cast thank you so much for being with us today how are you what is going well I'm

1:27

doing well I'm doing well uh and what's going well besides my state of being um

1:33

is I mean I guess it's Florida and it's not a hurricane today that's a big plus

1:39

uh sun is shining and um all five of my animals are are

1:46

healthy today and my dog almost uh chased the goat this morning but that that turned out to be fine so all right

1:53

all good all right interesting I I I've never lived in a place where you have to think about tornado

2:00

earthquakes volcanoes and I guess if you just live there you kind of get used to

2:06

it I suppose you I've lived in the UK and in Sweden and in kind of the middle of Canada none of those things really

2:12

exist it's never really been on my radar but I I feel like if I moved to Florida for like a few months or something I'd

2:18

be be worried about getting sweeped up by a tornado yeah every place has its

2:23

own thing so I'm I'm in North Florida which does have more tornadoes uh especially near the airport because

2:29

tornadoes like big Open Spaces um but also the the fun fun fact

2:34

where I live uh so I'm near St Marks Florida which no one knows where that is

2:40

but it's one of the biggest small ammunition factories in the world okay

2:46

um do you do you remember the like were you personally there for the London smog

2:51

no you weren't but like you know what that is yeah uh when there was this inversion and all this like stuff

2:57

trapped in the atmosphere uh so St Marks since it makes so much uh and we'll talk

3:03

about how this relates to sleep in a moment obviously but there's a lot of particulate in the air uh and they have

3:08

two meteorologists at all times in case there's an inversion because that amount

3:14

of pollution would kind of be not great so that's just another thing to look out for in the air and alligators so amazing

3:21

just another thing to be completely stressed out about all of the time wonderful well today we're going to be

3:27

discussing sleep annea and mental health and at the end of the podcast um you're

3:33

going to be offering some solutions to um a simple question that we ask to each guest to to to um take take us through

3:41

at the end of the show which is and that question is going to be what one thing can people do like T night to improve

3:47

their Sleep Quality and we'll build up towards that towards the end of the show but just as a kickoff do you mind

3:52

telling us a little bit about who you are and what it is that you do please yeah so I am Dr Dylan pekus

4:00

and I help people beat sleep apnea overcome sleep apnea naturally so

4:06

without CPAP without mouth guards uh all those sorts of different things and

4:11

really teach people how to work with their Anatomy as opposed to fighting against it uh so that they're able to

4:18

breathe a lot more easily at night and doing that with breathing exercises and

4:24

lifestyle upgrades uh so they can be able to uh do all sorts of things right not only just sleep yes kind of the the

4:31

main outcome right but also if someone's on a CPAP like we just had um one of our

4:37

clients who we we go through this like weaning process we like lower the pressure uh they've been able to come

4:42

off of it they're feeling great that's awesome or even um one person who started the other day um you know

4:50

there's this whole silent majority of people who have tried to CPAP hated it

4:55

and then have like no other option right um and then were're able to you know

5:01

start getting them to make some shifts and improvements that's that's what I do

5:06

awesome what why why sleep what got you into that why sleep well I I do it every

5:12

night so I'm an expert at it uh know so uh research is me search right um and I

5:21

had my own issues with sleep apneia um many moons ago in the same galaxy that

5:28

we're in um had moderate sleep apnea if that means

5:34

anything to anyone uh you have a certain sleep apnea score if you will but bottom

5:39

line like barely functional uh through the day so like imagine maybe you just

5:44

got a puppy you just got a new kid uh you're not sleeping for some reason or you pull an all nigher for some re like

5:51

something happens that's that's like every night do that like three nights in a row that was like my existence wow um

5:58

and being like many of our clients when they come in uh try out a CPAP it makes

6:05

things worse you're told to stick with it okay but it's like uh this is who who

6:11

does this work for can I meet them do they exist um and going through a lot of

6:17

other alternative things as a result like okay well if it's just like keep your mouth open at night that's just a

6:23

solution then maybe just some mouth guards a dental Appliance all these different things um and just like

6:30

hitting a wall like so many times we do in our lives the wall of pain that causes us to like reconsider and relook

6:37

at things uh that's what happened for me and being able to understand sleep apnea like more at a

6:43

a functional level as opposed to just anatomical for um a new level of

6:48

insights of like okay well what are some other ways we can address that doesn't

6:54

require like you know Darth Mater Darth Vader mask and blowing air down here

6:59

throughout the whole night um and took me like two years for that uh

7:06

to just go through things which is a lot harder when you're really tired imagine

7:11

that um but I guess that was part of the drive um and then you know being able to

7:17

refine that with myself and with you know a lot of our uh clients over the years and patients as well uh because

7:24

sleep apnea is not like a one you know not everyone has the same sleep apnea um even though a lot of times a solution

7:30

like everyone gets the same you know 10 centimeters of water pressure of air down their

7:36

throat uh but being able to really refine that where you know we help people really make those turnarounds uh

7:42

a lot more quickly did you have your sleep acne year issues when you're going through medical school after before so

7:50

before then uh so if I was really um not factious what's the word academic Ivory

7:57

Tower uh on my name tag I usually only put MD but there's a there's two other master's degrees there um I just have

8:05

somehow become anti academic after all these years but uh I was in a PhD

8:12

fellowship program okay originally and then ultimately exit out with my master's degree to go to medical school

8:18

but in that PhD program that's when I had uh all these issues come up so I

8:23

didn't have the same level of clinical knowledge that I do now

8:30

um which honestly is probably helpful because if I was already entrenched in like you know C PAP or die uh probably

8:38

wouldn't be able to make those insights that I have but yeah I was in uh

8:43

graduate school PhD for physiology there time all right um just for people who

8:51

don't have a great understanding about what what sleep ater is can you just just tell us like kind of basically what

8:57

sleep ater is you mentioned that it's kind of like a broad term and a lot of people experience it differently but if

9:02

you could just give us a basic run rundown I think that would be really helpful yeah so in the simplest sense

9:08

sleep apnea is when a um invisible person comes into your bedroom every

9:13

single night and chokes you about 10 to 40 times per hour okay uh we just want

9:21

to be very um visual if you will uh but what that looks like more

9:28

physiologically is if we imagine um your Airway right like a like if we imagine

9:34

like a tube uh actually I think one of the best analogies um you know those

9:39

like thick paper straws that you've ever had especially with milkshakes okay um

9:47

yeah humans aren't much different than thick paper straws at times but um at

9:52

night that's good to keep open right okay we want that to be open but when someone has sleep apnea

10:00

their their sort of paper straw if you ever had a paper straw in a milkshake and it gets wet it collapses every

10:06

single time you try to like suck up the relatively thick milkshake okay it collapses okay that's what happens in

10:13

sleep apnea okay there is something against all the different factors But

10:19

ultimately it is a increase in negative pressure which is the fanciest way you

10:24

can say inhale uh a like a faster or more

10:30

forceful inhale that then causes this pressure to then suck in parts of your

10:37

Airways together and it most happens uh towards the back of the tongue that area

10:42

in your throat to cause this collapse of tissues and that will happen again um I

10:49

mean technically if it happens more than five times per hour at night that can happen more than that uh many times

10:57

people who when they come to us they're at like 30 or 40 events per hour wow um

11:04

which if you were to think about that like think about of every other minute over the course of an hour you held your

11:10

breath for 30 seconds and you did that for eight hours yeah it's intense yeah

11:17

so and then that's not even the worst part but wait there's more um the damaging part is also when your body has

11:25

to kick back in to motion okay or back into breathing because when your Airway

11:31

collapses what opens it back up right

11:37

what happens is that your body senses this closure in your throat right and

11:45

these drops in oxygen these raises in CO2 levels carbon dioxide and then it

11:50

activates hyperactivates your sympathetic nervous system at night and then that wakes you up okay and when I

11:56

say wake up it can be enough to wake you up in a way that you're not aware of it

12:02

okay and that's the more deadly Silent Assassin but also just it can very overtly wake you up you're gasping your

12:09

heart is pounding uh because if you think about like uh whether it's I don't

12:14

know fireworks someone you hear something in the yard at night you hear

12:20

something in your house and that wakes you up and startles you once how much that affects your sleep

12:25

then multiply that by like again let's say 20 times per hour 8 hours 160 times

12:31

per night so yeah that's pretty intense I mean I've never experienced it myself

12:36

but it's quite clearly I mean I I've I've been living in North America for about nine years now and there's like

12:43

sleep apnea clinics everywhere I don't think I ever really noticed them in in in the UK or or in Sweden maybe I just

12:51

didn't notice them but they seem to be absolutely everywhere here and I just wanted to ask you like is there a

12:56

typical like demographic of individ who gets sleep apnea like you know you you

13:02

got it you were quite a young guy you know like is that typical no not at all

13:07

so yeah that's a lot of people because one I look like I'm 12 um many of the

13:13

times um and yeah in pictures of me as 12-y old I look I just look like a one-year-old

13:20

um the demographic in so it's about 70% men okay okay 30% women uh and this

13:30

is diagnosed per sleep study Okay this may be different in reality okay just

13:37

because it used to be just like 80 90% men but then someone had the thought of

13:43

like oh well when women have sleep problems should we just like not only blame the hormones maybe uh so

13:51

coincidentally women start to have more sleep apia amazing uh so but still it has more of a predilection for men okay

13:59

and then on top of that about of that pie chart of all

14:06

those men about 50% of them will be 60 years of age and older okay and then the

14:14

other half is 35 to 60 um and it gets increasingly more common as you age now

14:21

it can happen way before then um like for me or a lot of people um but that's

14:26

typically what you see and then also um

14:31

70% of those people are overweight now 70% of the 60 plus 70% of

14:39

all people with obstructive sleep apne are in the overweight category okay now

14:45

I'm not saying that being overweight causes sleep apnea it can be a factor

14:51

because again about 10% of the population is estimated to have

14:56

confirmed sleep apnea but if we look at the epidemiology

15:03

epidemiology sometimes it's just a big word I get excited in the middle of it um but if we look at those

15:09

stats 60% of America is overweight yeah but only 10% of them have sleep AP so

15:15

there's a gap there and then what about the other 30% of people with sleep apne and then also what about when people who

15:21

lose weight with sleep apnea um in in one study so was out of the Journal of

15:26

hypertension 2003 they tracked people who lost weight and

15:31

had sleep apnea a 20 to 40 pound weight loss which is not easy no especially

15:38

when you're tired okay that reduced sleep apne severity by about

15:45

10% which is like cool got a t-shirt and I mean yeah yeah I mean there's a lot of

15:51

other benefits of losing weight if you're overweight uh but the relationship isn't necessarily one to

15:57

one there not for sure I mean I guess if you were overweight and you had sleep apnea and know it's not a direct cause

16:04

even if you were to lose the weight you still have the the structures in place you still have your sleeping position

16:10

you still have your sleeping habits you still kind of have all of those together so it's not just about lose weight and

16:15

you're going to you know you're going to see the the benefits of sleep you're probably going to see some sort of improvement but as I say sleep acne for

16:21

probably for a lot of people has been building up for for quite some time and the body is in like a let's just say sleep apneia state every time it goes to

16:28

sleep um what's so say for example I go to a doctor I've got sleep issues I tick all

16:35

the boxes for like sleep acne whether that's like mild or severe um what's my typical pathway from that from that

16:42

doctor's office like where do I go what do I get what what what's my next yeah yeah so let's say you are in that the

16:50

algorithm uh so to speak or of the healthc Care model uh approach for this

16:56

so next step is sleep study okay it might be at home okay uh it may be in a

17:03

sleep lab then from there 80% of the time someone will get a diagnosis of

17:10

sleep sleep aptia of some sort either it's obstructive or Central or mixed um

17:16

and then if you test negative which is 20% of the time um

17:23

most of the time I think about 50% of the time they'll repeat that test and then temp % more people so we go from 80

17:30

to 90% um end up with a sleep apnea diagnosis um which begs the questions

17:38

from a resource perspective of why I do the sleep study but that's

17:44

another discussion for another or maybe it's a discussion for this day but is it a is it is it a quality test like what

17:49

do you think what's your your your opinion on on that is I think the lab

17:56

is it's a bit overdone so like if we were to test like if I wanted to test

18:01

how fast you could run okay we're gonna do realistic things like maybe you're 40

18:07

yard dash okay maybe I'll have you running around some cones or something right and let's say you know we're doing

18:15

that uh and you're a um a a a football player and I'll alienate a whole

18:22

audience um I'm not gonna say which football we're talking about um so I I'll alienate both audiences uh but

18:29

effectively like those are things that may happen in either sport you may run for 20 40 yards at a time that's a

18:35

realistic thing right now why am I talking about this sleep

18:41

how often when you're sleeping in your home do you have a mask on electrodes on

18:48

your head gear all over you you're not in your your same bed and all these things here it's a way different

18:56

environment okay it's now like instead of me having you run a 40 yard dash I

19:02

determine your speed by calling you at your house and telling you there's a fire inside and seeing how long it takes

19:09

you to get outside like it's close but like there's a lot of different

19:14

variables in the way right um so with a lab sleep

19:19

study a lot of times it's not uncommon for someone to go and be like wow uh I

19:26

had a great night of sleep or maybe they have like a really bad night like it's like it's very abnormal from their

19:31

typical pattern okay um and then also like the biggest uh thing I don't like

19:38

is like the latency in someone getting their information it's crazy so like uh

19:44

at the end of the day a sleep study gives you really one actionable number

19:50

there's a lot of different numbers don't get me wrong but someone gets their ahh which stands for apnea hypopnea

19:57

index which is just quite simply how many times does this person stop breathing or have a very low uh rate of

20:04

breathing per hour that's it okay it usually takes someone about three to

20:11

four weeks to get that information wow okay and I don't un I've tried to

20:18

understand but it's just crazy and the reason is because a sleep Tech has to

20:24

verify it right that's a whole other process and then that data gets sent and has to be signed off by um a board

20:33

certified sleep medicine doctor so it's this whole like bureaucratic chain of events that need to happen before it's

20:38

like yeah your sleep's thanks right um at home is a little bit better okay now with at home you do lose some of the

20:45

accuracy of certain things because you're not going to have like uh the most accurate equipment but again

20:53

um now we're going to be in a more realistic environment okay it's not as

20:58

invasive you can do your typical evening routine you're not laying in bed wondering how many people have slept

21:05

here like you know you're you're just having a a typical night uh so I find those typically give better results or

21:14

more reliable results in a way um and also um a lot of times people can just

21:21

get them privately done I think like a I remember seeing on my insurance bill

21:27

for the at home sleep stuff it was like $10,000 that was what insurance built for it wow most expensive slumber party

21:35

you well I'm sure someone can do more than 10 grand on a summer party um the

21:41

at home it can range from like $300 to $600 so um yeah so the sleep studies I

21:50

prefer the at home just for reliability um but also speed I I I find

21:56

that people typically get a turn around on that better is there a is there a better way to do it do you

22:01

think yeah I think uh so the the first best step is uh to get married um here

22:09

and just follow me along in this one so you get married and then you will have someone eventually tell you you are

22:15

snoring so much or not breathing I am really concerned and scared about your health and well-being that's a pretty

22:21

good reliable test um and I'm actually not being factious because if we were to just evaluate say how your snoring is at

22:30

night or other sort of sound waves or uh different just sort of audio qualities of your sleep that's actually highly

22:36

predictive of if you have sleep apnea or not and there's apps out there such as

22:42

snor laabs uh I'm not affiliated with them but I do think they're a great Tool

22:47

uh to have some insights to your own sleep uh without having to um go to a sleep

22:56

lab and also things about like of that nature because snor laabs will give you

23:02

uh snoring data like how many uh events the volume uh or even the opposite the

23:09

absence of sound is gonna be important to know sorry Qui question does that does

23:15

that app that you pay for is that basically just recording your audio through sleep when you're sleeping yeah

23:21

uhuh you you just uh press the button you put it on your nightstand interesting that's really

23:27

cool yeah I wish I invented it it's a pretty good idea what are what are your opinions on

23:33

like some of these wear wearable devices aren't specific for sleep but can track a lot of things and like the The Who

23:40

Aura ring um fitbits for example I they're not specific for sleep but you do get some data I my personal favorite

23:49

if someone were to have one of these devices is an AA ring and specifically a third generation Ora ring uh because

23:56

that has oxygen saturation data uh which is going to be more

24:01

telling of what was the effect of your pauses or very low flow rate breathing right uh

24:10

the other ones not so much because a lot of them will either just use um they measure the

24:17

motion the amount of motion you have at night uh not super specific for sleep

24:23

apnea but the moment you're able to put oxygen into

24:28

the equation that allows you to have a lot more uh prediction over it very cool

24:34

yeah I um I have I have one of those AA rings and yeah it's quite remarkable in regards to the statistics you get the

24:41

next day you can totally tell when you've had a bad night's sleep and look at the data it's really really really reflective so yeah I highly recommend

24:48

that product um these um sleep apnea clinics that are

24:55

in my little town they're everywhere do do you you think that they are they are they beneficial do they take do they

25:02

support people in regards to let's just say like a root cause problem like from what my understanding of what you're saying with sleep apnea it could be

25:08

quite specific and quite different for a lot of different people you you know you go to the doctor you get your test done

25:14

you have sleep apnea whether it's I think you said mixed or a couple of other different options yeah yeah what

25:21

the yeah please yeah carry them it definitely depends on the person because some

25:26

people they get a sleep stuff study they get a CPAP they feel great all the sleep

25:32

tchs feel great all the respiratory therapists feel great everyone feels great life's awesome and that's that

25:40

now I don't want to take away from that population of people because if someone is able to use a device in a way where

25:47

they feel better and they don't want to do anything else cool I'm not going to

25:52

dissuade someone from that or like you know Rob your you know CP cap off your

25:58

night stand in the middle of the night now the other 45% of people who that

26:04

doesn't happen with um it can become a very frustrating

26:10

process because you go back because so essentially what happens you get a sleep study and you're like okay cool do you

26:16

want to wear a mask or do you want to wear like a mask for like a CP those are like your two main options really no

26:23

options and if you say yes then you have to go get it's called a titration study

26:29

okay where they're determining what's the right pressure setting of this mask okay and then from there you go home I

26:36

don't think I have any mask around me in the office but you can get a you can get a full face mask and if that's

26:41

uncomfortable you can get a nasal mask if that doesn't work you can try like there's all these different permutations

26:48

of equipment you can try yeah um but then it just becomes like a very frustrating defeating thing because like

26:54

that could be a one two three four five month process um and the person

27:02

oftentimes feels like they're like worse off uh because you know adding anything into

27:08

your bedtime routine like a machine with a mask and a hose and a and a vacuum and

27:14

a you know it can really make things worse and people um rightfully get

27:20

frustrated and disch the thing that's what I did um so overall I mean like

27:27

it's better than nothing before like you know cpaps were only around since the um

27:33

when did it come out I think it was like June 1980 no one quote me on that uh but it was early 80s which is kind of odd to

27:40

think about like that's kind of recent yeah before then the option

27:46

was uh lose weight see if that helps um

27:51

get a tracheotomy that was an option for the CPAP so I would say the CPAP was an

27:57

improvement on that or it was just suffer be miserable uh and lose 20 to 40 years off your life so

28:05

yeah yeah interesting um is there is there a lot of money for like the the

28:11

companies that make the equipment for sleep apneia like you said even just like the test you say the insurance

28:16

compan is a Bing 10 grand for this test like it sounds like there's a lot of money in this in sleep apne there

28:23

like I you know I'm not like tracking their like I don't know know how would I

28:29

even track their finances the IRS but anyway I have better things to do I guess but they're making so much money

28:36

that um Phillips with their cpat machine in

28:41

January uh they went through a473 million settlement for some defects and devices

28:49

that were blowing cancerous material into users lungs okay now I don't know

28:55

about most people but if I got a $473 million

29:02

bill I'm G to change my name and like move to a different country uh so then

29:08

and that's just one company right there's Phillips there's there's all these different companies uh so it is a

29:13

lot uh it's a ton really because if you think about like even the equipment like

29:18

a plastic tube how much did that cost to make yeah where was it made yeah yeah

29:24

where like all this stuff and then like well if the insurance company paid me or got like sent a bill for 10 grand for me

29:31

to sleep in a room and someone to watch a computer imagine the tubing is you know probably it's I don't know probably

29:38

10 cents to make and probably $100 tube and uh I know the mask are like anywhere

29:44

from 30 to 120 a pop that's why like there's this whole eBay ecosystem of uh

29:51

sleep apnea parts and supplies like black market sleep apnea masks yeah the

29:58

the tubing The Mask um it's a I guess it's technically well is it technically

30:03

a black market if someone's selling medical supplies that's not my job to

30:08

decide but it's I mean you're gonna Force people's hands to do that and then

30:14

also like the machine uh I mean how much is a dustbuster right maybe like 50 150

30:21

bucks you get a nice one a cpat machine is essentially a a nicer Dust Buster in

30:27

terms of the motor and being able to put out a constant pressure of air and then you add in a computer chip in there and

30:32

some tracking um you know but nonetheless if you buy that yourself that's going to be

30:39

somewhere around like two or three grand uh and I would imagine Insurance bills way more for that yeah of course um yeah

30:47

it's a it's a it's big business yeah I mean if you had a uh I feel like Phillips with that

30:55

like half a billion dollar fine and they're probably making a lot more than that then it's just you know

31:01

they're still they're still profitable on that product I'm sure at the end of the day so it's yeah it's it's interesting there's a big rabbit hole we

31:07

could go through on that for sure um is there so so you so for you you said a

31:13

minute ago and you're telling us about your story you you you gave up on like the the machines you gave up on that stuff like so what was your what was

31:20

your route what was what was the other option for you I mean I'm sure you uh really wanted to do something about it

31:25

like what did you do yeah so like when I was going through that and like I kind

31:30

of hit that wall of feeling like at a loss hopeless

31:37

helpless I like took a step back and I was like okay what did it like what did

31:42

it like how else can I look at this because everyone's just like anatomy anatomy shove this in your mouth keep it

31:48

open all that but like why is my anatomy

31:53

a problem and and for me it wasn't like a clearcut like your adenoids are in

31:59

large or anything like that they're like well maybe it's your tonsils maybe it's your jaw a lot a lot of this it could be

32:05

these nine things great um here's your copay but the thing I start to look at

32:14

was in terms of just like the mechanics of it okay of there's this inhale going

32:19

on and then claps my Airway shut well what if I do something

32:26

about that the inhale because like everything Upstream with that whether it's my nose or what like what am I

32:32

going to do like get nasal surgery and then like a $10,000 Dental Appliance and just like hope this works um and looking

32:41

at that be able to understand uh as much as possible like okay well what effects are breathing at night okay because it's

32:50

not so much like I mean it is partly your breathing during the day we'll get into that but the more you can control

32:55

your breathing at night then that should fix everything right uh but the problem

33:02

being I'm kind of sleeping during that time so how would I impact that um so

33:10

one of the first realizations I had because being like because my undergrad was in kinesiology um and then again the PHD

33:17

that became a masters was in physiology um very simple Concepts you know

33:22

initially taught there uh like you have a neuromuscular Junction or simplest way

33:28

like a Mind Body Connection right if you're playing basketball right doing

33:35

this shooting a a hoop is something that becomes very subconscious to you right

33:43

your muscles just know to do this because you've done it so many times

33:48

uh and when you know that and you think about breathing okay my brain tells my

33:55

diaphragm to do something and it's just gotten to a point where

34:01

this neuromuscular connection is actually favoring

34:06

a bad way of breathing at night so how can I rewire okay this okay so just like

34:13

when you have a bad you know foul shot unless you're Shaquille O'Neil um you know just got to you know

34:21

make fun of Shaq even though that was like 20 years ago um you retrain you rewire you try to break the old habit so

34:28

one of the most obvious ways initially was like well what if I just do some breathing exercises like very rud dient

34:33

like well if I'm breathing too fast and if I practice breathing really slow will my breathing land in a a nice

34:42

sort of uh happy place in the middle because intuitively a lot of people already know this like if you practice

34:49

slow diaphragmatic breathing afterwards when you're no longer focused on your breathing it kind

34:54

of stays that way for a little bit right or the the other way is true if you

35:00

hyperventilate a lot like on purpose and then you go about your day you're still gonna be like yeah breathing a little

35:05

bit faster so that's why I first worked on that and like um it was one of those

35:13

M like you have some of those moments in your healing Journey where you do something and then you're like oh my God

35:18

I figured it out uh that was this uh but then I got humbled shortly thereafter um

35:24

did the breathing exercises were super simple and that's why I want to go over as like the big thing people can do tonight uh did that like next morning

35:31

like it it was like one of those stereotypical like coffee commercials where like you wake up and there's like

35:37

this soft Breeze through the curtains it was like comically ironic uh and I was

35:43

just like my first thought was like did somebody drug me because I just slept

35:49

through the night and that hasn't happened in like six months um and then felt like a hat I was

35:57

like okay cool uh but then with time the effects wear it off because there's other factors a

36:02

lot of factors that impact your breathing but that was like the big aha moment of like I can do something about

36:09

this that's amazing yeah I just I I I feel that a lot of people I just I don't

36:16

want to like think of like one particular thing that I think might cause this I guess there must be a rise

36:22

of sleep at there am I right in saying that there a it's going up and up and up or am I wrong

36:29

it's tough to say because the more you look for

36:34

something the more you'll find it sure um which is what's going on right now um

36:43

because like like even like I said like you know women didn't have sleep apnea until we considered it yeah like so

36:51

there's a lot more screening now and then with sleep studies being a lot more available at home um the number of new

37:00

cases and existing cases it is going up yes yeah so do you think that there are

37:06

some um like big factors that everyone shares within sleep apnea like most

37:13

people who have sleep apnea they might share some like common things like you you mentioned about breathing and

37:19

breathing is obviously hugely important to be able to like do it correctly when you're awake as well as asleep your

37:25

body's going to need to be say trained in a in a specific way to breathe you know if we're sat down for a lot of our

37:32

days our you know primary and secondary muscles of respiration they're going to kind of be weaker just like any other

37:38

muscle so I I kind of think about that when I I think of people's inability to like subconsciously when they're asleep

37:46

breathe strongly or correctly or I'm not sure what words to use yeah so there

37:52

there's going to be nuances um there's like different subtypes of obstructive

37:58

sleep apnea whether it's like their breathing's really really bad it could

38:04

be their Anatomy isn't in a situation where like the moment they lay back they get a pretty uh bad narrowing of their

38:12

Airway um you know there there's these different subtypes that um that's a lot

38:17

of what we're looking for when someone initially comes in like okay what's like the predominant subtype how's it showing up there because that's going to uh

38:25

dictate what's going to be the most important exercises for for someone now for everyone uh there's a lot of common

38:31

denominators okay um and this is like the the five big factors that I discover

38:39

because there's so many things you could focus in on but like these are the five most important and um luckily I thought

38:45

about this so much I finally was able to get into an acronym okay and just wait for it the acronym is sleep no it was a

38:53

really happy day when I was like wait you probably you probably good that night I I literally like I felt like I

39:00

discovered the the secrets of the universe I was like wow I could have been saying that it sounds so cool so

39:07

what does it stand for S is soften breathing okay we talked about that uh

39:13

because if you have a a less forceful inhale at night keeps your airway open

39:18

okay and all of these are all aimed at keeping your airway open at night okay L

39:25

stands for lower stress okay okay doesn't mean like get rid of your entire

39:30

family quit your job move to doesn't mean that it means like being more resilient too stress having good

39:36

relaxation protocols or uh dealing with things in a different way Etc okay the

39:42

first e is for establishing your Rhythm okay so that's your circadian rhythm

39:49

um this is a big commonality because if you have sleep

39:55

apnea or really anyone with bad sleep you run the risk of like your sleep schedule getting off like off the rails

40:03

very quickly like you have one bad night then that next day then you may take a nap that throws off your sleep that

40:08

night and then you don't s like it becomes this like very mtime thing not only does that hurt your sleep then it's

40:15

going to hurt your entire Rhythm throughout the day so like when you produce hormones will be at the wrong

40:20

time when you make certain certain neurotransmitters will be at the wrong time so your rhythm is something you

40:25

need to establish okay now um and I forgot to mention the commonality of lower stress uh although we did talk

40:32

about that your nervous system at night gets like shaken up all the time so then like you're constantly in a state of

40:38

overdrive okay that's why a lot of people um again with sleep problems including sleep apnea they'll go through

40:44

these times where they're like they're wired mentally but physically tired okay right nervous system overdrive all right

40:50

so we did SL e second e is enhance your environment okay because when you're

40:58

sleeping and breathing all the different environmental factors like if you uh if

41:04

you live in St Mark's Florida I'm sure there's probably a higher prevalence of sleep apnea there no one has ever looked

41:11

there no one ever will but I'm going to guess there is because the air quality is worse and areas with worse air

41:17

quality actually do have higher rates of sleep apnea okay it's just you know by

41:22

chance people with anatomical issues all live in the same area um but uh so

41:28

airweight irritants um that could be like particles it could be mold uh you

41:34

could have heavy metal you know that you're exposed to like it all the different environmental factors uh you

41:40

need to be able to understand like what's causing problems and how you can improve that and it it could literally just be as simple I mean okay it's it's

41:47

never as simple as just like replacing your pillow but like we've had uh clients who are like oh yeah like okay

41:52

so your your breathing gets not noticeably worse when you lay down at night okay uh how old is your pillow 22

42:00

years old okay that's great um Family heirloom you willing to get a new one

42:05

okay let's get a new one and like then they're breathing a little bit better at night and then P is for prioritize nutrition okay um I

42:16

could have made it pcus but that wouldn't make any sense or add any value but uh it's prioritized nutrition

42:22

because when you have all this going on right like you're in overdrive you're not sleeping well uh you will deplete

42:29

certain nutrients okay um and if those are depleted then your metabolism

42:36

continues to be off hurts your breathing hurts your sleep uh so those are like the the big five categories there that's

42:44

awesome yeah I love that and I'm I'm sure you've got some I see on your website as well on um optimal padian

42:51

rhythm.com which I I'll share you've got free trainings and you sounds like you've got some good like blogs and

42:57

resources there to kind of to help people out and advise which is which is just wonderful is that kind of the best

43:03

place people can go to to to get some resources yeah so optimal circadian health.com would be the best one um

43:10

usually the easiest is uh Googling because you could Google my name if you want to risk it and spell

43:18

petkus right you think I would have an easier to spell website and easier to spell a name but I really messed that up so probably the easiest thing um if you

43:25

wanted to find our we it it'll be the first thing that comes up if you uh the name of the of a book we have is the

43:31

sleep apnea solution okay book okay if you Google that our website will be

43:37

first if you do want to risk the misspelling you can just Google my name

43:42

Dylan pekus our website will pop up cool U but there's been so many creative ways

43:47

people have spelled Dylan petkus over the years um sometimes I get an H in the

43:54

middle which I never understood um um I I'll make sure that that's in the

44:00

show notes so people can click l it should be a puzzle it it should be a puzzle should be a puzzle okay maybe I

44:06

can do that as well um it's really interesting that your know the the pee and sleep is prioritized nutrition

44:13

because um our Flagship product here at trueu Hope Canada is a is a broadspectrum micronutrient formula it's actually the most studied micronutrient

44:19

formula in the world and we hear all the time people's sleep sleeping sleep gets

44:25

improved even when they taking it for enhanced physical performance or to

44:31

tackle depression or anxiety Etc people report back saying they sleep a lot

44:36

better because we are taking care of a lot of nutrient deficiencies and it makes a lot of sense that somebody who

44:42

is waking up in a kind of startling fashion many many many times a night you

44:49

clicking that sympathetic nervous system on you that's going to be very nutrient um heavy in regards to like what your

44:55

body's going to need to continous ly do that so it makes yeah I love that that last that last piece of your acronym

45:01

there is prioritized nutrition that's that's just awesome um we're kind of coming to the end of the show a little

45:07

bit but I really want to talk to you about um the connection with with mental health and sleep apnea in your

45:13

experience what you've seen and how you've seen your improvements working with patients um how you've seen their

45:20

mental health change I mean it's huge uh like for myself I was like

45:27

I mean I'll just be honest that was like suicidal when I was going through this it was bad bad bad um because you know

45:33

every day it's just like there's no joy everything's 10 times harder than it should be uh and then like what you

45:39

spend your efforts on feels like a a pit of like money time and effort of just

45:44

like going nowhere um so yeah like

45:50

because I know when I speak to people like we we'll talk about like hey you know how's your mood um and a lot of

45:56

people like I'm not depressed I'm like well you have every right to be depressed if your sleep is like this bad

46:02

I know like yeah oh you're just sad practice gratitude and end of study um

46:09

so yeah it really uh will throw people um into that you know downward Loop of

46:15

depression um anxiety is another huge one um you know we'll get into like the

46:22

neurochemistry of this but also just like plain simply like you can't do things as effectively right do you think

46:30

you're going to feel on top of it at work or like everything is crashing down around you at like all times right it

46:36

it's going to be the latter um and then also like irritability because when you don't sleep you don't have

46:43

patience um and you know it's just like whether it's like your kid or your

46:48

spouse and just like something that shouldn't be an issue is now a sudden like a like a very sharp moment like then

46:57

you're having to apologize all that uh so has a huge huge impact um reason for

47:03

that being like when you don't sleep all those like neurotransmitters that need

47:08

to be um refreshed in a way doesn't happen does not happen so you're not

47:16

getting like the dopamine you need which is also uh ADHD is a very common comorbidity with sleep apnea uh but also

47:23

the other things because if you're not having enough serotonin okay uh if you're not having enough uh

47:29

epinephrine or nor epinephrine then that's going to just lead to a a

47:34

neurochemistry is that's gonna not gonna really yeah yeah so yeah it's

47:40

interesting yeah if we are nutrient deficient you know your body's not going to have the building blocks to produce these chemicals which are very necessary

47:47

for not just sleep but for you know every every minute of the day so very very very important let's um let's cover

47:56

the question that we asked at the top of the show and I know it's probably difficult to name kind of like one thing but I think I feel like you've got

48:02

something for me for us so what one thing can people do two night to improve

48:07

their Sleep Quality yeah so what you want to do it's called box

48:13

breathing or rectangle breathing so I'll explain kind of both they're very similar uh and this is very often like

48:18

one of the first things uh this is like the first thing we I talk about like in in the books I'm like do this tonight I

48:26

think I have working on Edition where it's like in chapter one because you know books that'll go on way too long and then it's like here's something to

48:31

actually do I'm like no no no no no it's just you bought this because you're

48:36

tired so uh box breathing super simple um it's a so as you lay down

48:43

tonight put your head on your pillow um you're G to be breathing either

48:49

way so breathe this way okay so like you're already let's just do it better

48:54

um it's a inhale for a five count okay

48:59

and don't get a stopwatch out don't be that person who's in bed trying to relax with a stopwatch don't do it okay but I

49:07

need to do five exactly so just a five count in and do this all through your nose okay that's the best okay inhale

49:14

and exhale through your nose so inhale for a five count pause for a five

49:21

count exhale for a five count and then pause for a five count and then you

49:27

start the cycle over again at an inhale so it's inhale pause exhale pause inhale

49:35

pause so on and so forth now the the real magic is well in the beginning

49:42

stages for people the real magic is extending the time of the pause okay

49:49

because some people do box breathing and they're like this is kind of hard some people do it and they're like this is

49:55

lame why like this isn't doing anything for me um so for both parties uh the

50:00

same principle applies so if this is if box breathing is too hard for you you can just decrease the time of the pause

50:06

so you can do five inhale three pause five exhale three pause so on and so forth now the more you can increase that

50:14

pause time the more it sets remember that like Mind Body Connection I call

50:19

like the brain breath connection it sets that up for better sleep at night or it carries over into the night a lot better

50:26

okay um what you would do is increase the the timing of the pause so it would be like

50:31

uh inhale for five all right then maybe pause for eight okay then exhale for

50:37

five pause for eight okay and you would just keep in that pattern there and you

50:43

can extend that I mean most people maybe like five 10 five 10 um Okay can

50:50

be a good goal for some people do that and they're like oh my goodness people actually do this uh yes and there

50:56

there's this is like the really the entry level of the a lot of the breath work we work with uh our clients on but

51:03

um a lot like the the rectangle breathing was actually uh the exercise I talked about

51:11

um here today for for myself I was like wow I can't believe the answer was this

51:18

simple now you know I made some improvements and then had to like but some people when they uh like they watch

51:25

a video of ours or they get like our book and then like they'll be like wow I

51:31

totally thought that was going to be like the most worthless thing I thought I was ever going to do for myself and I actually slept really well like that's

51:36

usually yeah the response we get so oh that's awesome that's really

51:42

really great voice I really appreciate it just one question how many repetitions would you do of that of that

51:47

box breathing at night so typically I just tell people to do it as they drift off to sleep because it has a very

51:55

relaxing effect where people just do it and they don't uh they just kind of

52:00

drift off because the other thing is if you're counting in your head uh that

52:05

prevents you from thinking about what you need to do tomorrow uh what you should have

52:11

said uh today and like you know that thing that happened 13 years ago like

52:16

you don't have you don't really have the mental space to think about that um otherwise I would just say 10 minutes

52:23

but a lot of times people just do it as they Drift Off to Sleep some people don't make it that far um but I would

52:28

just do it as you sort of Drift Off to to sleep because eventually like the counting become like it's a bit of an

52:35

effort at first but it becomes easy yeah what I love about that I think that that would give people the capacity to do

52:43

other things when they see the benefits of that of that breathing method you know um once the Sleep begins to improve

52:50

more and more it gives them the ability to start focusing on the other things that you're talking about the the lowering the stress the estab

52:56

establishing a rhythm enhancing their environment and prioritizing their nutrition and giving people the ability

53:02

to to take th those challenges on as well to you know gradually improve

53:08

improve their health I think that's awesome Yep yep well Dr Dylan I've

53:13

thoroughly enjoyed myself today I learn a lot about sleep sleep annea and um St

53:18

Marks in Florida appreciate that um I will make sure that everyone has got

53:24

access simple access to your website and um all your social media Etc as well

53:30

but I really appreciate your time today thanks for coming on the show yep thanks for having me perfect well for any

53:36

information about what we've spoken about in the show you can check out the show notes I'll put some links in there for you don't forget to subscribe if you

53:42

haven't yet thank you so much this is um this is true Hope cast the official podcast of true hope Canada we'll see

53:48

you soon [Music]